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1 month survivor soloQ feedback

maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
edited January 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

I have taken much time to write this thread, so please be smart in your answer... I have played exclusively as a rank 1/2 survivor (soloQ & duoQ only) for the past month so i guess i’m able to give an accurate feedback about the balance of the game. I have 1000+h of gameplay, have been playing the game since end of 2017 and am a really good survivor.

Here is what i can say about the state of the game :


  • Concerning the survivors (red rank) :
    • most of them don’t know how to loop properly, either they fall down in 10 seconds either they use all the pallets to fall down in 30 seconds
    • they unhook in front of the killer while they don’t have Borrow
    • they don’t do gens


  • Concerning killers (red rank) :
    • They don’t know how to « break » loops
    • They don’t know what is map control
    • They camp and tunnel, ez way to get a kill as they are terrible players (80% of killers behave like this in EU, it’s a real problem) - Even some #intothefog killers with hundreds of viewers are camping and tunneling, what a shame for the DbD community...


So what can we say about this, globally ?

  • Red rank players are bad, they have no skill
  • The matchmaking is terrible
  • Developpers don’t know how to evaluate the skill of players (survivor & killer)


Also, throughout the years, developpers have brought many changes that remove all survivors options :

  • flashlight saves are now so rare... sure having 10 flashlight saves in a game is too many but having 1 flashlight save every 10 games is clearly not enough
  • pallet saves possible only if you are on the good side of the pallet
  • for pallet saves they clearly increased the bodyblock surface of the killer to make it harder to pallet save (without telling)
  • they added tons of unsafe loops (useless loop) and bloodlust is still here
  • shack was a place where you could loop some times but it was not infinite, they added a door next to the first door to totally kill it
  • Maps have tons of dead zone now

 

I understand that killers were frustrated with the previous state of the game, i agree that there were too many unfair features for them to enjoy playing the game but slowly removing all survivor’s game mechanics to survive is a terrible gameplay choice... I mean, where is the gameplay then ? Doing generators and unhooking ? There are so many situations where you have no option to be able to survive now...

And we can also talk about the perks that negate survivor gameplay mechanics :

  • perk that makes you yell when a survivor is downed next to you (removes all flashlight saves, hook disable possibility etc…)
  • perk that blocks the next pallet after a hit
  • perk that blocks the windows
  • perk that make it impossible to blind the killer
  • perks that make you see the survivor through walls

etc… i mean, all those perks had sense when there were infinite loops and many pallets on maps with 100% of safe loops. Now that dead zones are everywhere, that there is no more infinite and that 50% of loops are unsafe why are those perks still here ?

A game design that ends up giving 0 option to one side in order to make it easier for the other side is a bad game design, plain and simple. It’s not a question of balance, you are removing elements of gameplay... "Oh crap, they can finish Mario ? Let's make them unable to jump then"... and yes we play games to enjoy the gameplay, not to feel like a moving character that can't do anything anymore.


So what is the result of this state of the game ?

Pretty much what everyone say on this forum :

Survivors are DCing a lot and suiciding a lot aswell. I would say there is a survivor having this kind of behavior in 30% to 50% of the games i have played this month (200+ games). It means that almost half the time survivors are so unhappy about what the game has to offer, they decide that being banned for some time is a better option than playing... Before soloQing, i was always playing in 3Q/SWF so i thought that DCing and suiciding was rare but omg was i wrong...

Anyway, i guess adding a ban system was easier than actually fix the game but it's not like this you will save DbD...

To put some numbers on my feedback, i have done some research. I have found a guy that studied the official stats and made a good document about them in 2018.

 


Kill rate was 65% when he had removed DC and suicides (it seems like developpers were giving more detailed stats 2 years ago, we wonder why they now only give partial stats, but i have my idea :)).

Death rate was 75%. At that time, survivors were already suiciding and DCing quite often (as shown with the difference between Death rate and Kill rate). But if the DC/Suicide rate is that high, it means there is a problem with the game ; that’s not natural to abort a game, this behavior is really rare in other games (Valorant, CS Go, R6S, LoL etc...) players will do it only if they feel the game is unfair and broken. The amount fo frustration to push someone to DC is huge...


Now let's look at end of 2020 stats :


We can see a death rate of 68%. So yes, it’s 7% less BUT red rank killers are terrible, way more than what we could see back in 2018. LIn 2018, it was ahrder for them to get to red ranks, so they were better killers.

To my mind, this is this difference in skill that explains the 7% difference, it's in no way due to balance changes developpers have brought to the game...

The game balance hasn't change since April 2018, guys, APRIL 2018. 2 YEARS AND A HALF, no drastic changes...

We arrived to a situation where top 10%/20% killers get a 3K+ 95% of the time without even trying. Many killer mains here have posted threads about how easy the game became for them, that there is no challenge anymore and so they don't play killer anymore as it's boring for them. Some well known streamers have stopped to play killer too while some survivor main streamers have completely stopped to play the game...

I'm wondering till when developpers will wait to actually fix this unbalance problem. They have to do seperate queues for SWF/3Q and SoloQ/2Q with different rules, there is no other way.

I have kept some other bad points for the end of my post. It needs to be fixed but it's not that urgent.

  • The delays, you know that 0.5 second delay you have to do anything ? This boring delay as if DbD was a game developped 20 years ago...
    • Pallet droping takes 1 second, during this time killer can still hits you and end up stun on the other side of the pallet
    • After unhooking, you can’t heal for 1 second
    • When trying to unhook, you have a 0.5sec delay before the action starts
    • Wiggle bar @ 100% but killer is still able to hook you
    • Dead Hard never working and being exhausted on the ground
  • Some killers have an OP kit with too much map control and loop denial power
  • Hit validation server that doesn’t work at all (hitting through pallets, after window vaulting, while killer is 3 meters away etc…)

I also know that there are many, many things terrible in this game for killer mains, but i haven’t play killer only for the past months so i don’t have the legitimity to speak about it. I don’t plan to play killer only anytime soon as honestly, playing soloQ survivor has been so frustrating for me, i don’t want to increase it to the point i throw my mouse in my screen to take them both and throw them from the window !

So killer mains (good ones) , feel free to list all the problems you encoutner while playing.

I hope developpers will read this and will decide to fix their game...

Thanks for the time you took to read me.

Post edited by maderr on

Comments

  • notlonelynotlonely Member Posts: 367

    What else can I say but that this thread is perfect and perfectly summarizes the survivor SoloQ experience as a SoloQ survivor main. All the points and things you said make perfect sense and I really hope anyone in the company reads this.

  • kaijudanekaijudane Member Posts: 139

    Great write up and analysis! 3+ year solo survivor here as well and there's no lies or misinformation to be told here. To piggyback on a couple of things: red rank survivors immediately dropping pallets is almost shocking. Especially since it's not always someone with 50 hours or less in game.

    Killers really think the "moonwalking" works and they end up wasting so much time trying to out mind game in a chase instead of taking the path of least resistance. I've witnessed too many killers outsmart themselves.

    The add ons and perks chart almost hurts my soul. After a match a wraith player in the post chat said people don't realize how strong wraith can be. It's worth mentioning that he had 3 aura reading perks and aura reading add ons. Including being able to see survivors within 16 meters while being cloaked. Between that, bbq, i'm all ears and tinkerer the work was done for them. If I knew where the killer was every second of a match I'd be pretty unstoppable too.

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,462

    The most accurate statements were the survivors rushing saves without BT and killers not knowing how to chase survivors properly and not pressuring the map most games.

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251

    yes, i wanted to talk about those reading aura perks, especially the one when the killer can sees you for 6 seconds after a fast action but i thought i would get a flame wall :D.


    But yes, where is the mind game in jungle gym when a killer can see you ?


    For exemple, when i loop in a jungle gym near a hooked survivor with kindred... i see the killer 100% of the time, the loop fight could last 5 minutes with only one pallet. Aura reading perks are way too strong when it's everywhere.


    About red rank dropping pallets instantly, even when not injured is a good point, this occurs 90% of the time when soloQing xD.

  • valvarez4valvarez4 Member Posts: 868

    KIller is easy as hell now. These stats were before undying.

  • OBXOBX Member Posts: 854

    yikes, that was a ton of typing with no stats to go with your title. Just sounds like you want a looping simulator bot installed so that all the things you dislike will go away and the killer will be “fair”.


    There was nothing actually “said” in all that typing. Could have simply done what so many others do in far less words: “nerf killers that do anything other than m1”. See how much shorter that was?

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
    edited January 2021

    There are stats and valid points about soloq experience. It's not about nerfing killer, it's a thread about all the annoying and unfair things in the game.

    Trying to balance a game by adding ridiculous action delays, increasing hitboxes to make them as big as a fridge, and by creating perks that deny survivor's gameplay mechanics are not proper ways to balance a game. You disagree with this ? The go in a game design course and you will see by yourself.

    But i knew some trolls would come here. I'm waiting for your "stats are iirevelant" and then i'm then waiting that you mathematically demonstrate how stats can be irrevelant which will be a hard job as stats are as sure as the planet is not flat.

  • OBXOBX Member Posts: 854

    You had zero stats from your games. Who’s the troll.

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
    edited January 2021

    Some good survivors here made detailed red rank stats about their soloQ experience. Search for it, it's pretty much the same than what i explain in my post.

    Many DC, many suicide, around 25% escape rate. Search for it, it's on this forum.

    I haven't called my thread "stats from 1 month SoloQing"; it's called "soloQ feedback". Well another troll coming here without any clue of what he is talking about.

  • Father_DarkFather_Dark Member Posts: 84

    I switched to killer main about a month ago. I've played both sides, more total time on survivor. I know I can't loop very well (I'm purple rank for both survivor and killer) and as killer, I can break some loops. If killer was easy, then why are survivor wait times so long? As killer I get a match extremely fast and especially in the evening (east coast time), those matches will typically include 2 or more red ranks because there aren't even red ranked killers.

    Killer aura reading perks are OP? How about OoO? No cool down, no limit, use on demand. Or as someone pointed out Kindred which shows where you are, no cool down (until the survivor is rescued or dies) w/in a 16m area. Maps that show all gens and totems. And of course, the get out of jail free card, a key. Oh you 3 gen'd yourselves and you can't make it, oh well, 3 of us can get away anyways. (Yes, that happened to me and they planned it from the start.)

    Survivors are chased by the killer roughly 25% of the time, the rest is holding down m1. The killer is non-stop actively playing. The killer is a lot harder to play than survivor. As killer, I've given people breaks, be it slugging instead of putting them on their death hook, or giving them hatch. Bad survivors is an issue. Had 2 matches with facecamping killers today. The first one, we stayed on gens. The 2nd match, survivors tried rushing the hook. Did not end well. Had another match today with a Doctor, who camped until you were in the struggle phase. Effectively removed 4 hooks.

    As a killer, I love when survivors drop pallets right away, because it makes my later game MUCH easier once they are cleared out.

    One issue I have is with the grabs that get reversed. I see the animation, but then they are let go. Especially because I could have given a hit instead, which probably would have landed. But my understanding is that server validation uses the connection with the best speed. So be it. Seems logical to me.

    As for survivors DC'ing. It isn't because they are unhappy with the game. It's because they got caught with their pants down and now they are throwing a tantrum. Personally, for DC's, I feel full points should go to the killer. For the player that get's DC'd, they should have longer wait times. Another idea is that BHVR should add a bot to play for the survivor. Doesn't have to be good, but it would be better for both sides if this was done. (I've been told they have this on mobile.)

    Matchmaking is my biggest beef. Had a game last night, the killer and I were both rank 8. The other survivors were: 2, 11 and 16. It was a good match for me, but can't say the same for the others. Had a nice talk with the killer post game.

    Remember, in any match, the balance is 1 v 4. In any 1 v 1 matchup, the survivor is expected to lose. And from what I've seen, the balance is at 2 deaths, and 2 players, each on death hook, escaping. So in theory, if one player escapes with only 1 hook, that means the killer should have a 3k.

    Totally agree with something having to be done for SWF/3Q. Be it a different lobby or nerfing them in some way (I tend towards a slow down effect. While you can't really measure how much help being in comms contributes, I'm sure it helps a lot.)

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
    edited January 2021
    • Survivor wait times are longer because there are not enough killers, 3 reasons for this
      • it's really furstrating to play as a killer when you are bad/new at it
      • players want to play with friends
      • good killers stop to play as a killer as it is too easy
    • Kindred is situational, you don't see the killer when he is not near a hooked survivor
    • Killer skill learn curve is lower than suvivor's, killer's game are intense sure because it's 1v4 but once you have learnt how to break all kinds of loops, it's easier but anyway, game has to be fun for both sides
    • Survivor's DCing is because they find the game unfair and are frustrated about it, it's not about being caught, being caught is an aspect of the game, same as killer DCing which is rarer (on 200 games, maybe 10 have DCed on my side)
    • Balance should be 50/50 between surviving and dying for survivors

    I know killer is frustrating to play when you still have things to learn and that it's terrible to play killer against SWF... When i played killer, the only games i struggled to get 2k were against SWF. Every other games were ez 3k leaving the hatch to the last survivor and this without camping & tunneling. Games from rank 20 to rank 4 in a row, with around 50h as a killer (but knowing the game's mechanics with my survivor skill).

  • HydHyd Member Posts: 377

    This is a well detailed, and well written post. Unfortunately, this game is 4 years old being run by a skeleton crew at BHVR, so, going about addressing all of these issues sadly isn't going to happen, and some quite frankly just aren't possible to address. Not everything here rests solely on the shoulders of BHVR doing something about it either, much of it is the responsibility of the player, and in those cases, they're issues that affect not just DbD, but, almost all multiplayer games.

    This is the endless cycle of "balancing" - the community complains about thing X, the devs balance X, the community simply switches over to the next most effective thing Y, community now complains about thing Y...repeat...

    You just can't have perfect balance in a complex game like this. Not to mention, perfect balance = boring gameplay. Perfect balance in DbD means taking away all perks, taking away all Killer powers, giving Survivors weapons and just having them all slug it out until one side remains. Unfortunately, there is nothing "interesting" about that - what makes DbD attractive in the first place? The variety of Killers and their powers/perks, and the variety of Survivors and their perks, things that make people think "oh that sounds pretty cool."

    The same things that plague balance also plague the matchmaking... If we had perfect matchmaking, people would quit because not everyone likes to sweat it out every trial. Some times people want a game where they can stomp the other team on occasion and so developers purposely build this concept into their matchmaking systems so that players stay interested, and motivated to keep playing. It's the whole "okay I got stomped this game, but maybe next game will be better!" and then it is, so that player isn't lost. It's not done purely for that reason either, it's also to help lesser skilled players learn to improve by matching them against higher ranks but doing that all the time would just make the experience not enjoyable.

    Some of your words about perks or powers that "negate survivor gameplay mechanics" make me wonder if you believe all Killers should just be stripped of powers and perks completely. You don't like windows or pallets being blocked? You make it sound like it's ALL windows and pallets getting blocked EVERY chase...c'mon... You don't want the killer to be immune to flashlights (from a hardly ever used perk anyway...)? I mean, to me it sounds like you want Survivors to always be able to escape in all instances of a chase and that the only acceptable scenario to be caught is if the Killer sees you, and gets the jump on you. No aura reads, hell, no noises either, remove breathing too because being able to hear where a survivor is removes their stealthy gameplay mechanics, right?

    I see this all the time in the forums where someone complains about tunneling or camping, and that person almost always says "I shouldn't HAVE to run DS to enjoy this game," and all I'm understanding from posts like that is that this person wants their desired perk loadout to work for them in all situations, against all Killers and whatever Power/perk combo they might have. Obviously...that's just stupid.

    My one piece of advice for anyone that has many issues with this game is, learn to not care so much, and just play for fun. If one can do that, then all the bs drama in the game falls to the wayside. Literally none of it matters. Play how you wanna play, run the perks you wanna run, and if you're playing Survivor, don't be a teabagging, flashlight clicking douche. Open the gates, take your W and get out, or take the L and die with dignity. That's all.

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
    edited January 2021

    Yes, survivors should awlays have an option to survive, negating their options with perks is a bad game design.

    A good game design should force the players to win mindgames in order to win the game.

    Being caught by a killer because he has a perk that lock the next pallet or because he can see you all the time with an aura perk is bullshit. It doesn't involve skill or brain. We can compare it as having an aimbot in a FPS game.

    I would have the exact same statement if the survivors had such perks, exemples :

    • when the killer hits you, all downed/destroyed pallets in a 16 meters range are respawned
    • one time per game, when the killer take you on his shoulders, every hooks in a 32m range are disabled
    • better : after fast vaulting, a killer can't use his abilities for 20 seconds

    Yup, it would look like this and killers would say : we can't catch survivors because they have perks negating our powers and they would be right.

    Main problem is that it's a 1v4 game meaning 1 killer vs 4 individual survivors. The survivors have no teamplay option (just unhooking and doing gens) but they all have the same perks, all have the same gameplay features etc... In fact, there is no teamplay between them, i mean no complex teamplay between them.

    The game should be 1 killer vs 1 team of 4 players with the bloodpoints awarded to the team and divided by 4. It means that each survivor, even face camped, will get the points if the rest of the team is working good during this time, he will also be able to pipe up depending of the team results.

    Survivors would then all play together, as a team, to do their best to has as many escapes as possible for the global team points.

    Also, developpers could add real teamplay mechanics as Evolve did... Multiplicating perks is a dumb choice, we don't need so many perks, we need a small pool of perks that work well together and that allow to have complementary builds (as survivor) and different killer builds (as effective but changing the playstyle).

    Atm, it's selfish survivors working for their own points and their own escape vs the exact same killer build over and over again.

    This game is broken, i don't know who are the ppl working on those in-game elements and who decided to bring this game where it is now but they made many bad choices.

    As it is, the game is more frustrating than enjoyable, it's a pain in the ass to play it in soloQ/duoQ. In SWF it's fun for the survivors but really frustrating for the killer.

    Well i don't think DBD will survive much longer if developpers don't do a health season where they tweak the game to bring a new system to it.


    Loosing players during December while everyone had 2 weeks holidays ? yup, weird... Having 3 months with a 75k peak and then going all down to 50k peak ? Loosing 25k players during the peak, globally how many thousands of players have left then ?

    I really don't understand why BHVR doesn't communicate more about the state of the game and why they don't give us a roadmap to fix the problems we are all complaining about for years.

    I have seen their twitter, all the time advertising for new skins...

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