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Not_Queens call for civil discussions

So in the last stream the devs showed us an idea for a perk rework in the future and mentioned that they would be inclines to do this more if we would keep discussions civil.

Not 2 days later and I have already seen several video's on certain channels where they keep bashing the devs and calling this "cringe" and "condecending"

You know the channels I'm talking about. The ones who post more video's bashing the devs then actual gameplay video's. The ones who are just waiting like hungry papparazi to catch the devs saying anything wrong

And while they aren't perfect devs and mess up from time to time can we please acknowledge that we aren't the best community either and that their lack of previous communication is partially our fault too.

They are reaching out a hand to us. So can we do an effort to grab that hand and not snap at it like a frustrated dog

Sorry if this sounded mean but having seen some of the reaction video's really frustrated me


  • NoelleMinaNoelleMina Member Posts: 635

    I think I know exactly who you’re talking about.

    Condescending? Yeah, maybe I can see that, but I’m pretty sure it’s not the Devs intention. As you said, we aren’t exactly the perfect community either.

    Cringe though? It sounds like they bash them for anything.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 3,203
    edited February 2021

    I dunno what to say, other than that those creators you are describing sound like the ones who are being condescending.

    @not_Queen was being sincere and straightforward. I know there is a lot of justifiable stuff to criticize the developers for, but history shows that they are right to be a little bit gun-shy about talking possible future plans, because everyone is so quick to go on the attack. Yes, that's the normal acrimonious relationship between game developers and their hardcore forum communities, but from the developer's perspective, I'm sure it's hard to constantly be told by your audience that what you're doing sucks and is bad.

    I absolutely believe that the developers work hard, and they want to take pride in the thing that they are making, they want people to enjoy it, and they don't want to make us unhappy or feel that they have dropped the ball. They are conditioned to walk on eggshells with discussing early plans or proposed changes, because they're human and they don't want their fans to immediately start telling them how bad and stupid and wrong they are. So, cut them some slack here. They aren't being "condescending" or "cringe." They're just being human. They have feelings, and like most normal people they want their effort to be valued.

    I try to be constructive with feedback, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. It's cool that they decided to share this Object of Obsession remake idea with us and invite the forum community into the conversation. If this goes really sideways, well, this is your answer next time you're like "wHy DoEsN't BeHaViOuR eVeR lIsTeN tO tHe CoMmUnItY???"

    It seems like the discussion here has been pretty level-headed at any rate, so far.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 10,280
    edited February 2021

    They asked for a civil discussion on the forum. This is happening. Not more, not less.

    I like the idea that we as customers are included in the development process. That they hear us and more importantly understand us.

    If you don´t like the steamers that make fun of this whole situation, then don´t watch them. No one is forcing you.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 10,723

    Honestly, I dont expect that it will work. The DBD-Community is not suitable for those kind of discussions. I expect Dev-Bashing next week when the Midchapter comes out and DS is not changed (despite them saying in the Stream that the changes will go live with the next Chapter, not the upcomming Midchapter).

    I also expect a lot of trashtalking regarding Object, despite this being a proposal which can totally not come at all or at least not like this. And I doubt I am alone with those expectations.

    The Devs should do their thing and hear people who are giving constructive feedback. But they should not really pay attention to those who are not able to give this kind of feedback, basically, if the Thread about the complaint contains "I will quit this game", it can go into the bin already. This is usually a good sign of someone just being frustrated, not being constructive, not thinking about it too much and just trying to create pressure by writing something like this.

    In an ideal world, the approach of the Devs will work. But not with the DBD-Community (even if they are doing a good approach, I like what they are trying here).

  • SlashstreetboySlashstreetboy Member Posts: 1,811

    I appreciate their effort so much. All we can do is do our part and hope others will do the same, this is a chance we´re given here.

    On a sidenote, Not_Queen is basically acting like a mom that has to deal with the brattiest of children (us), which I found very cute somehow. She seems to be such a nice person, unbelievable how much ######### the CM team has to deal with. I hope it gets better.

  • JawsIsTheNextKillerJawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 2,931

    I think the two most prominent and obvious dev-bashing content creators usually do acknowledge when the devs get things right and praise them for doing so. Both the ones I follow have been very positive about this change. If there are streamers that can't even acknowledge the recent positives then they certainly aren't worth my time. Moaning about the game gets viewers unfortunately.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 5,892

    I don't watch those channels. The video's were being recommended by youtube.

    It were just channels with a pretty large following so i did want to express my concerns. Mostly to see if this was how most people felt it.

    Happy to see that most people do see it as something positive.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    I think overall the community accepted the changes well. Far more people like the new changes to DS then those who don't and OoO concept changes are also really well thought out. I hope they notice the positive feedback and keep them as they are really needed.

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251
    edited February 2021

    Too late.

    It is too late to ask civil discussion to fix the game. The core players, the ones who are here since 2016/2017 have asked for this for years, YEARS. Most of them have left now (just check the skill level of red rank players nowadays, they are terrible... so unexperienced).

    There have been thousand of complains thread on many forums, developpers didn't really care about what we were complaining about. Now that they smell the game has never been in such a terrible state, playerbase wise, they come asking for help and "civil discussion".

    It's over, DbD is dying and will continue to do so; there is no way back. The game is unplayable, clearly, it's 100% frustration, even if you win lol... impossible to explain. Last 3 weeks, i have only played 2 hours and i didn't miss it. During those 2 hours as a survivor, i went out almost every games but still, i was frustrated cause this game is boring; it became a generator simulator for the most part when you play as a survivor and frustration accumulator when you play as a killer.

    Oh and, we don't want to have a civil discussion with ppl who are not good at the game. I mean i have watched the last devs stream where they play KYF... They are really, really, really bad at the game... Seeing them not knowing what to do in banal situations is worrying... for the game's health. But this explain a lot on the bad gameplay decisions that have been taken.

    BHVR, hire some high skilled twitcher to fix the balance of the game with the dev team. That's the only way to save DbD at this point...

  • jrinkwaterjrinkwater Member Posts: 314

    Hire some skilled twitcher? To... balance?

    What an odd statement...

    Regardless, I am sure they seek the knowledge of many great players. I am sure they speak with Otz and others alike. The decline of interest in this game is related to balance, sure, but moreso the luster of the outdated mechanics. Now... big changes are coming to perks and maybe they'll be more in touch + pump out some serious content/reworks of systems.

  • Cancan71Cancan71 Member Posts: 692

    It's disingenuous to point to the steam charts and say the game is dying when:

    1) The pandemic happened, which inflated the numbers drastically. Look at the figures from March onwards. Of course there will be a drop off after that.

    2) The average number of players is around 34,000 according to steam charts, which is higher than the figures in May 2020, two months into the pandemic. The average before March was in the 20,000s.

    We all have our criticisms about the game but to say the game is dying is false.

  • Cancan71Cancan71 Member Posts: 692

    I think the devs main concern is that people will still badger them about these changes for months to come. I remember ages ago when they said Kindred would be base kit they got so many questions about when it's coming even though they decided against it.

    I'm glad they shared their perk designs with us though as I like both of them. Object is still strong in SWF as you can tell the entire team what perks the killer has but it's less annoying.

    I just hope that they'll keep their word about changing perks more often. I don't mind if they make a mistake sometimes with perk changes I just want more than 5 perks changed in 3 months.

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Those are some random yt or twitch streamers and finally after a long time of not wanting to call it neglect but rather co existing they have reached out a hand and I want to see them take our advice and hear ideas

    Like some of you may know space coconuts he may be I guess insensitive and he was banned from the forms but he did give credit on their stream when they showed an early concept

    And he was the only one I've seen point out that this is them trying to listen to the community

  • maderrmaderr Member Posts: 251

    Pandemic quarantine was in Mars/April/May, not later. Pandemic is still here, some country are in quarantine atm (in Europe) and the numbers are low.

    It has been 5 months in a row the numbers are decreasing (November was positive thanks to the free week-end).

    The game is dying. All my friends have stopped to play it this year. I mean, they play a few hours per month, less than 10 hours.

    The next update will bring more broken changes, it will be a mess. And as they have changed animations, i'm sure it will come with many performances problems and plenty of bugs.

  • DjangoTheGhostfaceDjangoTheGhostface Member Posts: 137

    Idk what any channels like that but the reason she probably said is because their nerfing DS (Kind of) and OoO. In my entire time playing i think this might be the first significant survivor nerf, the reaction was predictable and as it currently stands the DS nerf will probably help the majority of players

  • BlueberryBlueberry Member Posts: 9,297
    edited February 2021

    Not giving any opinion on those content creators, but they do acknowledge and give credit to the devs when they do something good, aka both perk changes for one example. It is genuine too.

    This is to say I think it is a skewed perspective to say that they are only looking to bash the devs all the time for views. This is not the case. They genuinely want the game better which is their reasoning for said videos.

    We could say whether their route of action is or is not too abrupt I suppose, but I don't think that their "intent" is really up for debate based on what I've seen.

    Either way, we aren't mentioning anyone specific here so we aren't going against ToS, but this is very much walking the edge so this is quite a sketchy topic to have. I'm not sure if the devs would consider this conversation too far or not. I could see them closing it just for being so close.

  • SkerpiTwitchSkerpiTwitch Member Posts: 327

    At this stage, dbd comminications have been past civil discussions. Alot of players are absolutly clueless on whats going on, and just jump the hypetrain like a braindead monkey. Any self-respecting survivor should agree without a hesitation, that the OoO and DS changes were needed.

    Like how are survivors not seeing why their qeueus are so long.

  • Chilli_man2400Chilli_man2400 Member Posts: 1,869

    really he gave credit to the devs for nerfing DS and OoO. That’s good but literally every video it’s just him harassing and bashing the devs saying there incompetent and always picks on Ethan no one wonder why he was banned

  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,391

    Well. I can see where everyone is coming from when they have been ignored through years and if I remember, I can quote someone saying "go play civilization V" so after years, and I really mean it with the word years, of being treated like garbage, people get angry and frustrated.

    I am not saying devs are heartless people or anything, they do have feelings as well and if they're willing to take a first step in the right direction. Why not? Of course, that won't erase how they treated the community in the past (I am not saying the community is the warmest either) but if they start doing this, perhaps the community will come back at the game. Anyway the game needs something new and fresh.

  • NoxVenoNoxVeno Member Posts: 177

    I was on the internet before before alot of gamers where born. its my internet and needs to do what I say. Youtube used to allow all content before Google, now it only allows cat videos and gamers who are surprised they are bored with playing the same game for 4 years. Civility has NO place on the net

  • ShirokinukatsukamiShirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    "Civil Discussion" and "Dead by Daylight" are oxymorons, unfortunately.

  • ShirokinukatsukamiShirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    Obviously you have only been playing this game for a few months, if you can say that with a straight face.

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Yea ik I watch a lot of them to gather multiple perspectives and the first thing I said when I watched him the first time was I hate this guy and in a way still sorta do but he dosent blow things out of proportion and no I'm not saying you should watch him but he has pointed out something I haven't seen many other people point out that the devs opened up a bit on something before they decided hey this is almost final

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