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  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 6,090
  • Yung_SlugYung_Slug Member Posts: 2,237

    The DS change is debatable but OoO absolutely affects SWF more than solo, not the other way around. OoO was most powerful used on a SWF team. It was not nearly as popular among solo players.

  • EvanSnowWolfEvanSnowWolf Member Posts: 1,583

    Your entire experience for this game hinges on Decisive Strike? That's.... flimsy.

  • dezzmontdezzmont Member Posts: 481
    edited February 2021

    Anyone saying the OoO nerf hurts Solo is kinda silly because the perk was already bottom tier solo. The perk has a bad survival rate because it already was useless as a solo or even a duo. No nerf could negatively affect the perk for solo because the perk as a solo already was purely negative. While its true this is even worse for solo now (You can't choose not to use it) that doesn't... super matter.

    The DS nerf doesn't affect solos as much as SWF because the hyper-aggressive DS play was a hallmark of SWF groups doing things like coordinating an assault on a gen using an immune player, more than rando players doing it. If you run from the killer while DS is up, DS's change won't do anything outside of a VERY specific addon interaction with styptic agent and syringe.

    There are plenty of very real issues with the solo experience that need addressing. But lets not use BS smokescreens of the solo experience to try to defend DS as 'necessary' when the changes basically don't affect solo at all, forget about OoO which is probably the least used solo perk in the game.

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,296

    I said "if you can help it".

    If someone is on the hook. Your injured and the other 2 are healthy. Best case scenario is they make the save. It's why I almost always run Kindred when I solo. If everyone is injured then by all means, go for the save.

  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    I always run kindred and a lot of times I end up having to be the one to go for the save since the other ones are stacked on gen.

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,296

    Sadly that's a random survivor problem. Not something the devs can fix.

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 3,131

    As the game was already tailored for team coordination due to various reasons, and this DS nerf will exasperate the problem exponentially for uncoordinated solos or even friends that aren't necessarily talking. Folks will be standing around not doing the objective in fear they will lose their perk if the killer returns. Even afraid to heal. I can visualize it. It is pretty obvious this is ideal for the killer main side. Not doing objective gives killer more time to do theirs.

  • PerfectlyPinkPerfectlyPink Member Posts: 435

    I don't know mate, I'm on an escape streak as solo survivor at rank 6 and I haven't used ds in a long time.

    Plus they're nerfing undying so, your "they only nerf solo!!1!1!!" Is kinda bs

  • DwigthtDwigtht Member Posts: 462

    So you have self care + botany knowledge! In solo queue I run DS only because I want to be sure there is an obsession perk in the match. It does not do much for me, as a solo player.

    On the other hand, as a killer, there were multiple occasions when I hooked Surv1 (in full health at the beginning if case), than chased and hooked Surv2, also in full health at the beginning, in the meantime Surv1 got unhooked and fully healed, I returned back to the gen, chased Surv1 again and got 59th second DS.

  • EvanSnowWolfEvanSnowWolf Member Posts: 1,583

    I read it fine the first time.

    Thinking the entire solo experience of the game hinges on Decisive Strike is flimsy. I said what I said.

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,111

    Solos did not run OoO. It was just an overpowered tool for the SWF doom squads. Still, it was in need of this nerf.

  • WeenieDogWeenieDog Member Posts: 2,063
    edited February 2021

    Shes going for that G.I Jane look. I kind of like though.

  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 3,660

    I'm a complete solo player and these changes do nothing to impaired the ability to play solo. DS still works the same defense wise and object of obsession looks like a complete improvement. At least now with ooo; it doesn't look or feel like something that's going to get you immediately tunneled and killed.

  • ShirokinukatsukamiShirokinukatsukami Member Posts: 1,624

    The DS nerf hurts Solo survivor a lot. The OOO nerf, not so much. Very few solo Q survivors use OOO and none of them abuse it.

  • Huge_BushHuge_Bush Member Posts: 3,881

    How does it hurt solo? I play 99.9999% survivor and don't even run DS. The only thing that hurts solo are bad or selfish teammates. There could be an argument made for killers who camp and tunnel at five gens too, but that is a different discussion.

    DS does the same thing it did before the nerf, only now, you have to think twice before you work on an objective. If you feel safe enough to work on something, then you are obviously not being tunneled.

  • ChurchofPigChurchofPig Member Posts: 2,602

    If you're making a conscious decision to not do anything to keep an anti-tunneling perk active when not being tunneled, that's on you. That's not on anyone else. If you screw over your team because of that, that's on you and no one else. The killer will go after the people doing stuff while you go sit in your corner. Basically a 3v1 while your DS is on.

  • SocialDistomancySocialDistomancy Member Posts: 1,319

    a person not going and doing a gen straight in the killer's face shouldn't often find they're any worse off than before, usually ds burned out while I was workong ona gen or by the time Iwas in another chase anyways so I started feeling like it wasted a slot unless i was feeling like the hardcore tunnels or slugs were on some nights where I would then bring it and unbreakable.

  • FrekiFreki Member Posts: 1,903

    I play solo and duo with out OOO and DS.... guess what doesn't hurt my chances of surviving or worsen them either. plus DS is NOT A NERF unless you are one of the weaponizing DS users that are toxic about it. then yea it is a nerf because now you can't be toxic!

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    Hrm. I had to digest this point, as it is much better stated than some of the previous arguments. I would say that in the Potato Ranks, yes, you will absolutely see some Survivors holding on to their DS as long as possible. But in the end, that is no different from any of the countless other useless things Potato Survivors do, not the least of which is urban evading around the map the entire match or hiding in corners. So while I can concede this may happen at a certain, low level of skill, I do not see this as an overall problem.'

    Most Solo Players (and I am one of them), who remain part of the few and the proud randos, progress rapidly and know time is the most precious resource in the game. They are either going to:

    1. Only use DS as intended and get away to safety and get on an objective or heal, or
    2. Use it aggro-style, without communication, to manipulate the outcome of an event or the game.

    Do you see my point? While SWF's 5th Perk (Comms) makes the aggro-style use of DS (and other Perks) more effective, it is not necessary to still have it as an option. If and when I take DS, I often use it in my Solo games to get the outcome I want. Someone unhooks me, and I purposely choose to lag behind a bit to pick up the Killer to loop the them to some god-forsaken corner of the map where I will proceed to get downed and use DS. This can by my peers (and thus myself) well over the minute, as the Killer wastes most of that minute chasing me, then gets the stun, and then must make their way back to where ever things are actually happening. I also like to use Deliverance in this way.

    Solos aren't as weak and helpless as everyone says. Remember, that while the SWF has been a growing percentage of Players, most people (for the longest time) were Solo and the managed to get by, win even. :) The problem with SWF and Solo being in the same Que is that the DEV have been trying to balance the SWF advantage (Comms) with Perk additions which strangle the Solo. The tweaks to existing Perks have never really had much effect one way or another. I want to say, in closing, that I respect that you were able to properly communicate your concern. I think it is a fair point, but I hope I have answered it and put your mind at ease. We cannot balance the game around Potato Survivors (or Killers). They will just have to grow out of bad habits.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    Both DS and OoO were absolutely ridiculous on solo survivors, specifically the ones that would absue DS. OoO is just too much info for someone that has full control over it's use (meaning they can mitigate the downside and honestly render it nonexistent), and there's nothing fair about the killer getting a 5-second stun after you unhooked your teammate, worked on a gen, broke a totem, etc.

    Seriously, even when I died OoO itself massively increased the escape rates of my teammates because of all the time the killer would spend on me.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    Yep; in the hands of a SWF and their 5th Perk (Comms) OoO is a Rosetta Stone for Survivors. I'm glad it is getting tweaked. I think this new iteration will actually be quite useful for the Solo Survivor by comparison since they can control (or at least know) when they are going to be visible. It allows for information gathering and thus useful counter play. It is my personal suspicion, which will have to be tested when released, that it will be better for Solos and see more use among them. I think you are dead on here.

  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 6,090
  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 6,090

    Self care is for bad players who'd rather waste 1 minute healing instead of doing a gen. I'm not gonna use 2 perks slots so i can still heal slow on an already 3 perks slot game since kindred is just a must.

  • DwigthtDwigtht Member Posts: 462

    This is up to you what perks you'd prefer to use, but please don't say "self-care is for bad players". This is not true. Yes, bad players may use self care, but not all self care users are bad. Please remember that botany knowledge not only speeds up the time you heal yourself, but also speeds up the time you heal others. Kindred is not "must", but its up to you.

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