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How Could NOED Be Balanced?



  • EvanSnowWolfEvanSnowWolf Member Posts: 1,583

    Why not?

    Killers and Survivors "rely" on their perks all the time to achieve effect X or Y.

    Why should NOED be any different than a Survivor that "relies" on Adrenaline to escape endgame or "relies" on Dead Hard to avoid dying to a downing hit?

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 3,900

    It should pop up when the gates are powered, not when the killer get's a down

    Cursed- Hex: No One Escapes Death

    Also @Clueless and @Saltjar34, I think EGC should start when the gates are powered in general... I do like the ideas though

  • ukenickyukenicky Member Posts: 1,351

    Adrenaline rewards a survivor for completing their objectives.

    NOED rewards a killer for failing their objectives that's how they're different and that's why people complain so much about NOED since it rewards a killer for basically losing up until that point.

  • ShamelessPigMainShamelessPigMain Member Posts: 1,843

    It's supposed to be a crutch, for games that don't go well. Good players won't use it because of its limited use.

    However, even better players know how to setup for it and absolutely destroy teams in the end. I really think it's an awful perk, in terms of design, since it's just brute forcing your way to victory (which can feel very cheap), but if it were to be reworked, I would have it only apply in the endgame collapse. If the survivors are good enough to have outlasted you this long, you shouldn't be rewarded for playing badly. 

    It would also be appreciated if it limited how much you could pip as well. I got to rank 5 with NOED, but the moment I took it off, I sank all the way back to rank 12. Maybe a bloodpoint bonus for survivors sacrificed in the endgame as well; imagine what would happen if survivors had a perk that gave them complete immunity after all gens are done until you go around the map looking for totems.

  • SadsnacksSadsnacks Member Posts: 673

    Noed only punishes new survivors and survivors who gen rush for a quick match.

    Most new survivors have no idea that if noed goes off at the end of the trial then they need to find the lit totem asap, most of them just run around near the downed person freaking out about what to do while someone else crouches in the gates trying to decide if they should also run around the downed person aimlessly or just leave.

    Its painful to watch as a solo survivor.

    In fact im almost certain it really only works against full solo lobbies in yellow ranks.

    But use it on a team where each survivor has more than 20 hours in the game and that lit totem will be found and neutralized within 2 minutes. Its ridiculous how fast it gets taken care of by decent teams. So ridiculous you realize quickly that its a wasted perk slot as killer.

  • UnifallUnifall Member Posts: 749

    I'm mean its already balanced. You can get rid of it early or after all the gens are completed. The killer has only 3 perks until noed is activated. Its just pure laziness at this point.

  • ToybasherToybasher Member Posts: 911

    IMHO NOED is fine but definitely is frustrating to play against.

    I almost always run NOED alongside other endgame perks such as Remember Me, Blood Warden, and Rancor. It's a bit cheesy to go from no perks into an insta-downing, exit-gate blocking, obsession moriing powerhouse but it's a fun change of pace.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171

    I still think noed's is more equivalent to hatch than adrenaline. They both reward the other side for failure. They both give the enemy another chance. One just happens to take up a perk slot.

  • Grimmy_BluuesGrimmy_Bluues Member Posts: 353

    Instead of changing NOED, they need to address totems in general.

    Since the Undying changes, the only reason to cleanse dull totems now is to avoid NOED, which leads to people ignoring them and complaining when they die to it. The devs just ought to add a reason to do totems.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    Ok I'll give the other players a call. Let them know just do bones. Problem solved.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171
    edited February 2021

    Easiest way for noed to be balanced. Make it base kit and a few tweaks to it so its power is equivalent to hatch. Call it killer's hatch.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    You should. That is really all it takes. While Undying + Ruin was BIG people stopped complaining about NOED. The silence about NOED here was very refreshing. The reason is Totems were getting cleansed because the only Objective Survivors seem to care about is Generators, and because of Undying + Ruin they bothered to do them. I played in one match where all five Totems were cleansed in 2:17, and they also got to Generators to boot.

    Personally I think NOED should work as follows:

    1. NOED activates the same as it does now.
    2. Anyone who has not cleansed at least one Totem is exposed until NOED is cleansed.
    3. The exit handles to open the gates are locked down by the Entity for a number of seconds depending on how many Totems are still standing.

    Thus people who pull their weight will be less hurt by the Perk but still have a vested interest in trying to kill it. People who did not pull their weight are exposed. This would leave ZERO gray area for anyone about what they SHOULD be doing. But that is just me. I rarely run NOED; I don't have a problem with the Perk or look down my nose at it. I just find that it is a wasted Perk slot for me. I'm not an End Game Killer. My NOED would rarely ever even go off, so I just ended up playing a Perk down.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    I actually like your suggestion there. That's decent. Maybe not an exit blocker though but rather the exposed effect lasts throughout the totems remaining.

    I know NOED isn't overpowered. I just want to see a solution for solo q and new players. Remember Old Ruin got the same treatment. Was it OP. Of course not because you can hit the great skill check and it does nothing.

  • TerroTerro Member Posts: 1,171
    edited February 2021

    Do we really need more survivors hitting higher ranks when the best they can do is just do gens? That's the main reason solo queue has gotten increasingly worse overtime.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    My argument is player retention. If we make a truly robust ranking system then bad survivors shouldn't climb regardless of what NOED does in the match. Make the rank system purely based off the difficult interactions.

  • I think noed is fine and balanced.

    If you wanted to approach it from another way such as you think it's annoying or it can be used as too much of a fallback perk by killers who just half arse a game because they only play for noed sure, I would be happy to discuss changes.

    However if coming at it from only a nerf standpoint, I don't have much interest in the idea honestly.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,689

    That isnt healthy, that would mean OoO is healthy, because everytime the survivor sees you, you see the survivor so you're guaranteed to find that survivor.

    99% of OoO users die before the end of the match, so OoO is healthy by that logic.

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 5,125

    Give totem counter.

    But to give something back for Killer, destroy a totem will cause a noise noti.

  • spenzomaticspenzomatic Member Posts: 139

    How is this better than current NOED? You replace with with Mori it is now insta-death vs insta-down. It doubles down on it's sense of cheapness.

    Dislike this because it will basically rule out ever running NOED with other hexes.

    Token-based NOED is ideal but should be based on killer behavior, not survivor behavior. E.g. based on the number of hooks or hits.

  • gendossgendoss Member Posts: 2,270

    Yeah NOED should be next on the chopping block. Luckily nobody in red ranks runs it but if it became a common occurrence there would be so much outrage.

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 5,125

    What if...

    Noed cause instant scarified, but not instant down?

  • lagostalagosta Member Posts: 1,759

    NOED is balanced.

  • bingbongboi90bingbongboi90 Member Posts: 574

    Ds was unfair only with unbreakable

    Because like you said the counter to DS is slugging but unbreakable negates that counterplay. The only counterplay in that situation is litterly walk away of the survivor wich isnt counterplay.

    NOED doesn't have a perk combination that make it a guarantee that the perk Will activate. So the perk still has a legitimate counterplay other then: dont get caught after the Gens are finished.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,229
    edited February 2021

    DS was and is still currently a problem even without unbreakable.

  • The_Nightmare69The_Nightmare69 Member Posts: 55

    NOED is fair but some builds just abuse the concept

    I myself have made a 'that build'

    It runs:

    Remember me (RM), upping the opening time of the gates from 20 to 36 seconds which gives me more time to down and slug the remaining survivors.

    Blood warden(BW), because I run NOED so hooking a survivor is easy with NOED active

    NOED, because well it is destructive when used in the right setting

    any random perk usually whispers or thrilling tremors.

    and then I enjoy a highly mobile killer like the Demogorgon because it can just spam portals next to both of the exit gates.

    Now I would like to state that I DO NOT run this very often because it is just broken. The only times when I run this build is when playing with friends in private matches.

    I would say NOED is fine, but a great nerf would be to make it incompatible with certain perks that trap survivors in the trail e.g. BW/RM.

  • JFFJFF Member Posts: 163

    What I would do is to make NOED non-hex and make it token-based, so you get 20 secs of NOED per each first-hook and 15 secs for each additional hook, this would reward killers for playing good, instead of rewarding campers. I believe this change would make it more fair for both sides.

  • BullettimegodBullettimegod Member Posts: 996

    Oh look. Another post where someone feels like they should only do gens and not do bones. Noed is fine. There is counter play to it. Do bones. Stop using meta perks and use detectives hunch. I do. I never get hit by noed. And if i do, then its my fault.

  • Huge_BushHuge_Bush Member Posts: 3,733

    You can't compare a hex perk, where a survivor can take the perk out within 15 seconds from the start of the match to OoO, a perk that the killer cannot disable.

    NOED is healthy because it gives survivors something else to do and lessens the gen rush pressure from the killer. I am not a fan about calling everything whataboutism, but what you are doing is it.

    The power of NOED lies in survivors hands, not the killers. Everyone asking for it to be nerfed are just asking the devs for easy escapes.

  • jielesjieles Member Posts: 2

    i think it needs a nerf and a buff to not make useless as well maybe make it have 2 charges or 3 but make it a normal perk and not a hex?

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