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Survive and derank = poorly design system

sluc16sluc16 Member Posts: 377

It makes no sense to survive a match a derank.

Same for killers that get 3 or 4 kills and also derank.


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,229

    The system is bad and does not work.

    The devs have acknowledged the system is bad and does not work.

    That is the stage we are at right now; so I mean, you can complain as do we all, and supposedly change is coming....but it won't be anytime soon.

  • gendossgendoss Member Posts: 2,218

    I agree with this but at the same time I don't think the requirements for ranking up should be lowered any more than it already is. Most of red ranks should not be there at all.

  • sluc16sluc16 Member Posts: 377

    Dumb argument. Standing there doing nothing greatly increases the chances of survivors not even getting to open a door. Plus the killer can still find you and kill you, have you heard of BBQ and chilli?, pretty popular perk among killers

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,244

    Its not nice to call peoples arguments dumb (also probably against forum rules and can / will get you in trouble)

    But also some counter points

    standing around is very common for low rank matches with newer players to the system not ranking them up for doing so is made to penalize such actions which helps them learn to engage in the gameplay more

    as you get higher in ranks the requirements get higher to try and get you to engage in gameplay even more and tries to get you to branch out gameplay such as making you try in the same game to save/heal survivors, complete objectives, and be good in chase

    sometimes you just can't manage to get enough of each in matches to rank up even if you escape

    onto the other points

    while the killer can find you the maps are decently sized and los blockers are everywhere you can usually hide really well if you just try to

    bbq only shows your aura when a survivor gets hooked you can either

    a be close to the hook

    b hide in a locker

    c use perks to not show aura

    d use aura to throw off killer and double back when it ends

    just because they have bbq doesn't mean its the end all be all to stealth

  • sluc16sluc16 Member Posts: 377

    I never mentioned survival time. And it doesn't matter if you did a lot or not, surviving is the main objective and you should not derank if you did. Also I neve said you should rank up, at the very least you should stay in the same rank, but actually deranking makes no sense

  • RizerRizer Member Posts: 95

    The fact that the survival category has 8K max point cap and you only get 5K for escaping properly and 7K for getting the selfish hatch is a bit ridiculous.... if anything it should be the other way around to discourage selfish game play.

    It's literally counter productive to the entire team if you know you get more points for escaping via the hatch... not to mention players hold the game captive until the very end of the collapse when 2 or more survivors know where the hatch is... they legit troll their own team mates to force them out of the gate.

    It should be a full 8K for surviving the match and 4K if you get the hatch... simple solution.

  • JasixJasix Member Posts: 1,195

    I disagree - but I don't. Escaping should be escaping - whether that be through the hatch or a door the amount should be 6k. You should not get 8k for escaping a match unless you were never downed because that would be a perfect game; which is the way it works now. Just because you escape does not mean you did perfect especially if you were downed once or twice.

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,105

    I think people put to much emphasis on outcome.

    Killer = # kills

    Survivor = survive

    But the rank system is predominately based on match performance not outcome. No chases, no bones, hardly any gens, no real altruism but survive is not a pip or safety pip.

    Just as 4k with the old mori tunnel everyone off hook in 5 mins was not a pip for killer.

    If you could rank just on surviving you could scum out as a crappy player and still rank up or safety, which you can already basically do, its why survivor is often said to be easy to rank up compared to killer.

    Take the emphasis off the single point of outcome and the emblem system makes a lot more sense. Even if some of it is out of your control and as such can be hard to fulfill every aspect in a particular game. But that's just random variation game to game and is to be expected.

    Sadly a large proportion (I'd say >1/2) can only see outcome, because...

    A. Behaviourally we are wired for loss/reward, basic operant conditioning, so even after a rich full game people still melt down if they die or don't get hooks. Because that's the stipulated goal and as such people's measure of success or failure.

    B. Humans in general are poor at multi faceted complex reasoning, such as assessing personal quality of game performance. This is a learned skill and I'd bet more than half the player base either haven't learned it yet, or ever, or are icapable of learning it.

    C. Ego plays a big part in the ability to complex reason and is often the basis for point B. Its also hightened by the competitive nature of the game. Making missing the goal (Survive/sacrifice) even more of a sore point when it happens. Its important to check your ego pre- and post game.

    D. Looking at the counter point if you do a lot in game but don't survive, its still possible to pip and you often do even in red ranks.

    So I'd say looking at overall match performance, instead of outcome, the emblem system starts making more sense. Pipping and De-pipping may also be less of an issue with this view.

  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 2,421

    So what I'm hearing is if a survivor hides with a key all game, doing nothing till the rest of the teams dies, and escapes, they should be rewarded for that? You should be getting pips for doing good in a game, so you rank up and go into harder matches. Because skill.

    Does surviving really always mean you played well?

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278
    edited March 2021

    Yes it does make sense. A survivor could otherwise just hide all match and let everyone else do the work, and either escape through the gate, or wait for the hatch.

    Should that kind of survivor safety pip, or rank up?

    Post edited by TheClownIsKing on
  • NamelessNameless Member Posts: 782

    The main objective is to escape and this is an objective you have to work for with your teammates, so yes if you hide all game and don't do anything useful to reach your teams objective, then you should depip in my eyes.

    I'm not saying the current system is perfect btw because it's really not

  • voorheesgtvoorheesgt Member Posts: 809
    edited March 2021

    The game doesn't look at whether you survive and escape only... It assesses whether you DESERVED to survive as well.

    If 3 people die and you get hatch, you'll at least safety pip (if not +pip) if you did enough work towards a team escape. If you do little to no work on gens, rescues, totems etc and escape through hatch you should not rank up because you'll bog down less selfish players that rank up by helping.

    If anything I think less bp should be awarded for escaping as the last survivor alive. Especially through hatch.

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 6,153

    I think the point he's trying to make, guys, is that you're punished for playing too efficient. It's not just do-nothing teammates who survive and depip. It's also people who were able to do the gens in 5 minutes and probably got in 1 chase each. What are you supposed to do in that scenario? Let the killer chase you and toy with him just for the points?

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    Do bones.

    Create distractions.

    Both count towards boldness and altruism.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    The pip system is terrible, but not for that reason. Surviving doesn't mean you did or played well, and shouldn't be the one and only goal, just like killing shouldn't be the one and only killer goal. Otherwise, we'd get more "fun and happy" people facecamping, tunnelling, camping on hatch, letting their team die while not even touching gens, etc.

  • MandyTalkMandyTalk Administrator, Co-ordinator, BHVR Posts: 18,373

    Whilst I do think the rank system can be improved (this will hopefully happen when a skill based matchmaking system is introduced) I complete disagree that surviving a match should automatically give you a pip. A pip is given dependent on how much you do in a match, how much you've assisted your team etc. Someone who's hidden all match and done nothing and let the team carry them to the exit doesn't deserve to receive a pip in that match as they've not contributed in the slightest.

    Surviving is only part of the objective and the success or failure for a single survivor to achieve their objective can be on the team as a whole. You can of course play in a selfish manner and purely spend the trial doing nothing to help the team complete the objectives, but you certainly shouldn't be rewarded for the play in the same manner.

  • RizerRizer Member Posts: 95

    This game is a mess of variables as it is and you're worried about how many tiers an escape should have? Seriously?

    Getting downed is in a category of it's own for benevolence... I'm talking about BP scoring here... not about the stupid emblem system (which is absolute trash level garbage btw....steaming and on fire)

    I was talking about raw BP earned through playing the game... you know, the entire reason people even play this trash? To get points to spend? So they can grab more junk... and do this hamster on wheel crap? The Ranking system hasn't mattered since forever... emblem system or not, and it's about to not matter AT ALL.

    I'm saying that if you escape, out of the gate, you should be rewarded MAX BP in that category... you escaped... where are the other 3K points coming from to max out this category? What? Using self-care? :/ I mean if that's the case, that's dogs** . 8K for an esacape, half of that for the hatch because you probably let your entire team down in the process... and if you use a key, it should be even less... AND it would solve the whole "keys are OP" argument... Because then if you used a key to selfishly escape through a hatch, you'd be rewarded garbage level points for doing so because it was a "cheap victory"...

    AND I'll do you even one better for people that would complain that "key's should be rewarding to use"... how about, if you use the key you get 2K escape points and for each consecutive survivor that exits through your open hatch, you receive and addition 2K per survivor... so if all 4 of you escape via hatch, the person who used the key gets 8K points... anyone else who uses the hatch gets the 4K... boom, mind blown right? That's good game design... too bad these idiots at behaviour can't design their way out of a paper bag.

  • swager21swager21 Member Posts: 1,019

    sucks cuz you are forced to derank if the killer is afk cuz you cant really do much except for gen rush.

    for killers, well it depends how they got the kills. if they only downed everyone once and let them bleed out on the ground then they deserve to depip

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