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Demogorgon's Rat Liver Nerf

LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

I remember hearing multiple times how when the community says "this thing should be basekit" the feedback takeaway is: "the players don't think the baseline feels good." With that in mind, why almost halve the effectiveness of Rat Liver without doing something about Demo's shred movement naturally?

For those who don't know, Rat Liver's effectiveness is going from 9% increased movement speed to 5% increased movement speed. Normally, shred charging movement is 92%, or 8% slower than a survivor. Rat liver made you 101%, or...effectively survivor speed for all intents and purposes. Now it will make you 97% speed, which is still slower than a survivor.

I'm genuinely unsure why this needed to be nerfed, and then (according to the patch notes) still have it be the only add on that affects shred charging movement speed, and there not being any mention in the patch notes of making Demo's shred charge movement speed faster. If the feedback we were giving is "shred charging movement speed feels too slow" then why is nerfing the only way to make it faster without any sort of buff to the speed itself the answer? This change will 100% make Demo feel worse to play, even if it doesn't really affect him too much.

It's kind of how the Nurse and Billy changes went over in my opinion: did they gut the effectiveness of the killers? No, but they made them less fun. I don't think a 4% slowdown will ruin Demo, no, but it will make his shred objectively more frustrating and less fun to use in all cases now, rather than Rat Liver mitigating the problems with it.

I strongly suggest that this change either be reverted or Demo's base charging movespeed be buffed to compensate for this nerf. It feels weird to have one of the more balanced killers lose his best add on without anything to mitigate the damage from that.


  • Riley__PRiley__P Member Posts: 1

    Seems like they just looked at usage data, like always. Saw that every Demo player is running Liver + Tail due to his other addons being awful and thought "Must mean those addons are too strong! Nerf them!"

    The other changes seem nice though. Red Moss is gonna be fun.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,696

    This add on allowed Demo to zone, which I feel should not be possible for any killers in DBD. At this point Pyramid Head still can a little bit and Deathslinger can zone like nobody's business, but with these changes Demo definitively cannot. I'm thrilled tbh. There are other ways to buff a killer than to create a lose/lose in the chase. Better mobility, for example, and that's exactly what Demo's getting.

  • FreudentraumaFreudentrauma Member Posts: 1,044

    I think they knew what they were doing. Remember they said they want Demo player to use their portals more. And I think that's the reason why the nerfed it and didn't improved his Shred. They think that you can play him with a more portal focused playstyle. Still ignoring how useless undectable status effect is with his sound design. Honestly after reading the patch notes I actually think they are workblind.

  • TheArbiterTheArbiter Member Posts: 895

    It frustrates me that they seem to only care about statistics. By their standards they should be mega buffing Nurse.

  • TodgeweihtTodgeweiht Member Posts: 3,666
    edited April 2021

    I personally didn't use it to zone. It allowed me to catch up faster at some really tight loops and activate my shred sooner. For instance, jungle gyms are just so much easier to play around with rat liver.

  • TheArbiterTheArbiter Member Posts: 895

    Wasn't april fools like 12 days ago?

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

    Agreed, I feel like when I tried to use it to zone I got juked out of my demo shorts because his travel speed allowed for counterplay, unlike someone like Slinger's shot which travels too fast to juke if the slinger is good. I never once thought of Demo as a zoner with or without rat liver, I don't think that was a concern really.

  • notstarboardnotstarboard Member Posts: 3,696

    I'm sure many people are in this same boat, but zoning is something that bothers me enough while playing survivor that I feel it should not be possible in the first place. Given how well Demo uses STBFL, you can play as a base M1 killer and still do alright. Making him pick his spots a bit more with his shred in exchange for better mobility and a bit better stealth seems like a fair tradeoff in terms of strength and a positive change for gameplay.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

    I find it hard to agree his stealth is any better with his map wide "I'm teleporting NOW!" announcement and stompy feet despite the lack of TR. His mobility gets improved once he's gotten time to set up, but a decent survivor team will punish his desire to set up by getting gens done (also known as the Trapper problem)...I'm struggling to see how he's overall buffed when his average chase potential got nerfed.

  • Lonok2Lonok2 Member Posts: 25

    This does seem like a really odd change, unless they have changed it without noting it, I would like to wait and see but I thought demo was one of the best killers to play and play against, this will make him never played I imagine

  • HaddixHaddix Member Posts: 866

    This patch shows exactly what's wrong with the designers at BHVR (and NOTHING against them personally - they all seem like very nice people and deserve to be respected. This is in regards to their work as designers, not people).

    They use statistics as the major way to understand their game (Watching lead balance developers have no clue how to run very basic tiles, those who were assigned to rework Clown not using Tonic bottles in the most obvious spots where they should be used - This is quite concerning especially) instead of TRULY understanding their game (and not just by playing it, but by playing AND understanding it) and anything that's overused and/or overperforming is just nerfed to be nerfed.

    I guarantee you, the thing with rat liver and rat tail's nerf was just "Hmm, these are used a lot! Since we want to give Demo more addons, let's decrease the power of these to encourage more usage of these new addons! How about a random ass 4% decrease nerf on Rat Liver without any reasoning to justify that change? Sounds great!" and they didn't do a single ######### thing to understand WHY people actually ran those addons, despise MASSIVE amounts of people begging for them to be basekit; specifically Rat Liver.

    Nerf to nerf. Change to change. But never to understand any of it. That's the huge issue with the design team right now and it's been a glaring issue for a while now. They completely lack an understanding of what makes sense in this game, whether it comes to perks, reworks, perk reworks, addons, killer powers, etc.

    Coup De Grace, Gearhead, Billy (anyone remember the "let's just nerf to nerf" that happened with Engravings with his rework?), Demo's change doing next to nothing and completely missing the mark, Demo's new addons, Twins release, Twins nerf, Appraisal, Knock Out, the creation of Blood Favor, Wraith's uncloak movement speed nerf (???), Begrimed Head's random change, Twins addons (Baby Teeth - #########?), Lucky Break's buff, Gideon Meat Plant's rework, Forced Penance, Trickster's power design completely lacking identity, Trickster in general, Hoarder, Pig apparently being TOP THIRD, original Undying, Freddy's new addons, basic attack conditions in general (and not removing them because it's too complicated to make a condition for a perk not to trigger on....Deep Wound downs and Honing Stone), and a whole lot more. That's just to name a few.

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