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DBD has become extremely Pay to Win. We need more ways to earn shards...

2

Comments

  • Progamer888Progamer888 Member Posts: 230

    Honestly i agree with what you said, expect the shrine, the only think that they should do for the shrine, it's to not spawn perk from free character there, i think for the rest it's a fine sistem

  • TomskrexTomskrex Member Posts: 142

    "you have to pay copious sums of money or be at a massive disadvantage." = you have to pay to have much more chance to win = "you have to pay money to be able to win more." = massive disadvantage = you will probably lose = lose is opposite of win = pay to not lose = Pay 2 win

    Again, I will repeat myself (Which I really hate to do)

    I did really well with a grinded killer (Oni) and with his and perks available to everyone (Sloppy, Nemesis, Bitter murmur and whispers) against sweat squads and I am a very casual and chill player.

    You do not need to spend a single dime to be good. You need to practice and by the time you get decent you will already have enough to buy better perks because one pgtw means nothing to newbie unless he learns how to use it.

  • IWasLeft2DieIWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,004
    edited April 2021

    Didn't mean to quote and I can't delete lol


    Anyways this is more Play To Win if anything. You have to play a ton to get everything, which yes the grind is a lot but everyone has had to do it without shortcuts. The grind should change but it's nice that it's an even playing field and people who play more should be given more

  • IWasLeft2DieIWasLeft2Die Member Posts: 2,004
    edited April 2021

    You can still do very well without paying a dime


    For example, last night I got a 4k against red ranks and double pipped with Trapper (arguably the worst killer) with insidious, sloppy butcher, pop (you can get with shards quickly), and noed. Stopped them at 2 gens left.. I havent played Trapper in years but still did well with him. I'm not an amazing player by any means either. Everything outside of Pop is free and you can get pop (or clown) free through shards

  • Alice_pbgAlice_pbg Member Posts: 5,066

    I think either double the perks or rotation in the shrine would improve it a lot.

  • BeelzeboopBeelzeboop Member Posts: 1,306

    I understand that.

    I've gotten at least 2 4ks against 4man SWFs, quite possibly more. I have two P1 killers and I'm going to prestige a third soon, and I do quite well as all of them.

    But the issue is that BHVR pretty much never addresses the actual problems, and the only thing that they do to "fix" the issues is add perks that pretty much have to be bought with money. So clearly they know about the problems, and have an idea of how to fix them most of the time. That sounds a bit too convenient to not be deliberate to me.

    I'm not disagreeing with you here, I'm just stating the facts.

  • pseudechispseudechis Member Posts: 2,576

    To play devil's advocate here.

    The company charging for licensed content is hardly pay to win. Perks being tied to characters is a little pay to win but you aren't just buying perks you are buying game content. Expecting more from a DLC is what we should do, its should have killer + survivor + themed map at minimum.

    When its just new killer/survivor with great perks then yes I'd say there is now a bit of a pay to win for good perks scenario going on.

    Now the caveats here are that this game is been out for a while so a discounted base game and perhaps some of the older DLC's should be a thing by now and at least in my region it is. Integration of some older DLCs into a base game purchase would also be a good idea given the game's age.

    Perhaps its time to start making older DLC perks unlocked from the beginning to lessen the new player grind.

    These are improvements I think would go far.

    Sadly online gaming models are built on grind, keeping players online is the idea and the way to make that happen is grind, so you're not likely to see grindy elements change much. Its why deep down I really hate this trend of making games multiplayer online dependent.

  • twocansofbeantwocansofbean Member Posts: 200

    Nah alot of the allure that brings new comers into the game is the licensed characters. As someone said it's the smash bros of horror game

  • wisdomwielderwisdomwielder Member Posts: 327

    This is a great solution, and I have no idea why the base game isn't permanently on sale for $6. Same with some of the oldest DLCs. You've made your money, and now it's time to lower the base price (and maybe even lower the shard cost for these older characters). They have all of these other sources of income literally printing money for them, at least make more of the base game content more accessible to new people...

  • AstrianAstrian Member Posts: 299

    For survivors this game is not pay to win in the slightest, one of the best builds imo: Spine Chill, Resilience, Iron Will, and Dead Hard is 100% free.

    For killers yeah, all the good runnable perks are behind paywalls or through grinding. But the grind honestly isn't bad. Consider a new player starting fresh, if they are optimal with their unlocks, they can get a solid general killer build with their first few unlocks.

  • FairRelic64722FairRelic64722 Member Posts: 31

    Aside from the insane grind, it's pretty unfair that newer players are forced to pay $7 each for certain perks like BBQ, Decisive, Object, Thrilling, I'm all ears, Save the Best for Last, Surge, Surveillance. The shrine argument is not valid because good/fun perks from licensed killers can take anywhere from months to a year to appear on the shrine (look at the archive of previous shrines). A lot of people pick up dbd on steam for $30 to check out the cool killers from popular horror franchises (one of the main attractions of the game), only to learn that they are all locked behind a paywall. I completely understand that the devs need a constant source of revenue to keep up with the content updates, but I feel like that money can be better earned through microtransactions for killer/survivor cosmetics, by re-releasing limited cosmetics from previous tomes as well as selling good cosmetics on high-demand that people actually want to buy (Seriously, I'm not going to pay 500+ auric cells for a korean dwight skin). Also community-created skins such as the mr. puddles skin for the clown is definitely a step in the right direction.

  • MedicSpirit7MedicSpirit7 Member Posts: 689

    They just need to put them in the free rift track

  • AstrianAstrian Member Posts: 299

    A lot of the perks you listed I would never recommend for a new killer. If you're introducing a new friend to DbD you want to get them a good build asap not perks like I'm All Ears, Surveillance, Object or Thrilling. Since Decisive is nerfed they shouldn't be wasting their money on that perk either.


    Survivors have some of the best free perks in the game, they shouldn't be spending a dime if they want to play optimally. They have dead hard, sprint burst, borrowed time, unbreakable, iron will, quick and quiet, bond and spine chill all as free perks.


    If they have nothing else and don't want to pay any money, the first killer they should get is Clown which you can get with shards, not paying a dime. Clown is a solid noob friendly killer and Pop is a fantastic meta perk.

    Paid Survivors and Killers don't have reliable meta perks really anymore besides BBQ.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,438

    with the difference that Nintendo can absolutely afford these things.

  • RealKamakazeRealKamakaze Member Posts: 117

    You are forgetting that Hex: Ruin although free on Xbox is a DLC you have to pay for on PC (Despite buying the game on Xbox and PC). BBQ & Chili another really good perk you have to pay for. Decisive Strike which is literally one of the only perks to counter tunnelling and you have to PAY FOR IT! No it may not be P2W but it's pay to have fun, you throw $20 at the game and your chances of winning do increase without a doubt.

  • RealKamakazeRealKamakaze Member Posts: 117

    Hate to break it to you but this game if something increases your chances of winning greatly and you have to pay for it then it's pay to win. Either way though that many Iridescent Shards for a ######### character is actually ridiculous it's a CHARACTER! Now I understand with the licensed killers such as Ghostface and Mike Myers it's different due to the licencing but cmon it's still a joke with characters like Clown and Hag being 9000 Iridescent Shards. Also can someone explain to me why things don't transfer across platforms like DLC? The developers claim they haven't worked a system out for it yet well I think it's so they get more money of players. The developers behind this game are DODGEY period. I mean then again it's pretty clear to me the people that make this game are worse at coding than Yandere Dev considering they can't fix hitboxes, matchmaking, animations, sound effects, pallets, tiles and even the currency is broken so it doesn't surprise me if they can't code something literally every cross platform game developer can do.

  • twocansofbeantwocansofbean Member Posts: 200

    I mean nintendo also has 12 dlc characters that you can only pay for individually or in a bundle. Exactly like DBD. And I hundred percent doubt that this company somehow put themselves in a position where they are losing money by adding a licensed character

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 1,450

    Pay to win is the wrong term, but the grind for in-game rewards is too steep, and seems deliberately designed to push people onto paid alternatives. BHVR needs to make money to sustain the game but, for me, the balance has swung too far in that direction. They're already using a model where some rewards (characters, skins, charms) are locked behind a paywall anyway -- why not let us get the free ones faster?

  • MooksMooks Member Posts: 10,690

    No, base perks and killer powers are enough to win, purchasable perks are just something that offer more options and may suit specific playstyles better, but overall nothing that just hands you a win.

    also cross Progression with purchases in-Game and DLC is a thing the devs have implemented. It is working for Steam and Stadia, with Switch getting added soon (the next 3 months they are aiming for). The devs are also very likely not at fault that the other platforms don’t join, it’s more likely that Microsoft and Sony don’t want it. But they are still negotiating (at least the devs confirmed they are trying to get cross progress for all platforms except for mobile)

  • FancyMrBFancyMrB Member Posts: 1,228

    Yes the game is grindy but its not P2W. Just like any other online game that has been alive for awhile there is always excess content for new players to go through and they don't have to buy it all upfront. Look at any mmo. A new player will always have 100s of hours to catch up to their veteran counterparts.

    I like your ideas! It would be nice to have more ways to earn small amount of shards. Maybe bhvr could release a special edition of the game where they give out enough shards for 2 or 3 characters?

    Also the chapters all go on sale from time to time so that also helps new players ^^

    I would personally like to see a rework to the Shrine. Instead of 2 survivor and 2 killer perks it would be nice if they showcased a character and all their perks would be available and maybe have their cosmetics on sale (could include your number 1 idea). They could alternate between survivors and killers to showcase each week. I think a rework like that would help with unlocking perks quicker and reduce the grind a tad.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 3,676

    I don't have a problem with DLC prices because they often make discounts, and you're not supposed to buy everything at once anyway, so the cost is really not a real problem. Even paying full prices, with one DLC every 3 months it's a bit more than 2€/month, which is nothing for the amount of hours of entertainment the game offers.

    I agree though on having more ways to earn shards. Since their rework on the second annyversary they haven't been touched anymore, the system could use an upgrade.

  • deckyrdeckyr Member Posts: 601

    i've felt for a long time that things just cost way too many shards and cells. i would buy more cells if i could get more things with them. there's like 20 characters on both sides and you're gonna charge me £5 for some hat for dwight that says DILF on the front? i'm not buying, sorry!

    make the shrine better, cheaper, and make the cosmetics super cheap and available for shards as well as cells. i'll buy stuff literally just to support you because i like your game if i feel that i get more than one shirt out of it.

  • Patrick1088Patrick1088 Member Posts: 620

    I started playing in August 2020. I had a gift card so I was able to get the game and some DLC for free. I've only dropped 20 for Twins and some other DLC.

    I don't think DBD is a pay to win, but grind to win. Game is not forgiving to new players. Im at a level now that I'm happy with killer and survivor builds and I have 750k and 2k of shards (I just got Surge).

    I think they either need to have older perks that are available for shard buy as opposed to waiting for Shrine of Secrets or allow us to buy with BP. I think blood events should happen once a month to help build up the currency. We don't need triple or double events, but even 1.5 is enticing enough but eases the grind pain

  • JasixJasix Member Posts: 1,225

    Except its not pay to win. Pay to win implies there is no way to get those characters/perks aside from money - which there is. Pay to win also implies you NEED those characters/perks to win - which you don't.

    FYI game purchases alone are not enough to sustain a studio; especially when said game is often on sale and already has a low price point. How would you like DBD to make money to create content (free or otherwise)? BHVR is a business - no profit - no content. I always find it interesting (funny really) when people try to shame a business for trying to make money. I have almost 3,000 hours in DBD so by your math that means I spend 5 cents for every hour I have played...pretty cheap entertainment if you ask me.

  • The_SniperThe_Sniper Member Posts: 76

    I was expecting this to be more unrealistic but I kinda agree. The three OG Killers are just simply not the best with them just refusing to give them straight buffs (Wraith seriously didn't need to have the nerf for leaving cloak because he got buff. Trapper is literally straight RNG to the point where a little bad luck can make your match go terribly. Hillbilly is the only decent one but a good Survivor will force him to M1 90% of the time anyways and doesn't help that they nerfed his power for no reason when it should've been an add-on update)


    The most powerful Killers in the game all require you to purchase them which is factually pay to win whether people want to admit it or not. Also, the meta perks are almost all in paid DLC unless you get lucky in the shop.


    Nothing can really stop them either as no other game like DBD can challenge it with all it's licenses. Also, people whove played decently want to experience the new characters so content isn't stale which guarantees a lot of money. (Also the new players attracted by the newest license) They can legitimately do whatever they want and not have to worry because; where else are you gonna go to get that DBD experience?

  • MooksMooks Member Posts: 10,690

    The most powerful killer is Nurse, who is free for all platforms.

    others up there are Spirit (purchasable with shards), Blight (shards) and Huntress (free). Also Freddy (fair enough, only real money), but he is about to be nerfed and wasn’t meant to be as powerful.


    Which Meta perks are you talking about which qualify as pay to win exactly?

  • The_SniperThe_Sniper Member Posts: 76

    I was gonna respond but I forgot switching tabs closes this so my long ass response is gone do just gonna give a speedy response....


    Forgot Nurse free cuz console.

    Many powerful Killers still require money.

    Shards take forever to accumulate enough to get new Killers on time anywhere close to their release.

    Quite a few of the more meta perks are DLC exclusive unless you get lucky with the shrine which sometimes they intentionally make some perks show up less. A lot of the Killer meta perks are unfortunately under this category.

    Decisive Strike, was busted before, nerfed but still strong, and nerfed again but still strong (has only appeared in the shrine 3 times since it's release 3 years ago)

    Ruin

    Undying

    BBQ

    Corrupt

    Pop

    Infectious Fright

    Dead Hard

    STBFL (dependant on killer ie Demo)

    Devour Hope

    MYC (dependant on Killer ie Hag)

    Discordance

    I'm All Ears (Dependant on Killer ie Nurse)

    Object before it's nerf (although it's still debatably decent.

    Mettle of Man before it's nerf

    Lucky Break with it's recent massive buff


    A pretty good chunk of meta perks are from DLCs.

  • MooksMooks Member Posts: 10,690

    Those are nowhere near required to win though.

    maybe Undying+Ruin (which wasn’t supposed to be as strong and got nerfed), but even that was RNG based.


    i am not saying the grind is okay or anything, because it’s way too much. But this game is not pay2win. There is already enough stuff in base game to give you best conditions for winning.

  • loblob Member Posts: 177

    cough cough play dbd mobile

  • KeezoKeezo Member Posts: 449

    KILLER

    The best killers in the game are all BHVR original, on top of that, 3-6 of them are free. While only a few of the best killer perks are free, the best one isnt even a teachable and the other top killer perks are on shard killers anyway. STBFL & BBQ are the only meta licensed perks, and you can do perfectly fine without them.


    SURVIVOR

    Bill & Meg are both free

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