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Can we talk about tunneling from a realistic standpoint

RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,924

Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?

You get far more points for hooking all players twice than you do for a single kill while everyone else gen rushes. BBQ and chilli, the arguably most important perk for any killer, grants ABSURDLY more BP for NOT tunneling a single player. So why do so many players do it? Its often said that only low rank killers rely on it, yet I see it in high ranks all the time, and they then go on to say they do it on purpose to try to depip. What kind of ######### up system rewards that kind of behavior (no pun intended.)

Its bad enough when your teammates just hook farm you like idiots, but slugging them and then outright ignoring them to cross half the map to secure that kill is beyond a dick move. Its the kind of play that makes survivors whine and complain about how killers are op (when they're really not) and then form into SWFs (Which actually are op) just to avoid being subjected to that kind of situation.

Yes, I know being a 0K game hurts, especially when survivors are taunting jerks about it. Maybe thats part of why a lot of killers have zero empathy for it: if they get outlooped by someone and cant handle it, they're effectively being held hostage for the rest of the game, and tend to take it out on other players. Thats just repeating the cycle though, and creating more necessity for it.

TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.

also dont worry i already got my Rx for gitting gud from the good doctor.

Comments

  • IrgendeinIrrerIrgendeinIrrer Member Posts: 3

    As far as I know there are problems in every competetive multiplayer game.
    I think the players are at fault. Everyone thinks it's funny to troll other people, yet when you get trolled yourself it suddenly stops being funny. People like to utterly destroy noobs and make some nice Youtube Videos out of it. In Overwatch for example, some people purposely play bad on a smurf account just so they can stomp through bronce players and make fun of them online.
    All that creates a lot of frustration and the players who just wanted to play the game start taking out their anger on other players and the cycle continues.
    I think survivors who complain about killers ruining the game are pretty much that bicycle meme where the dude puts a stick in his wheel while driving, falls and blames it on someone else.
    Also I can't really blame survivors for wanting to play SWF, if they play properly.
    I'm fed up with playing survivor on my own, random teammates tend do disconnect after they get downed once or won't struggle at all on the hook. Now in these cases you can't really blame the killer, it's your teammates who left you hanging.

    I also think tunneling is a viable way for the killer to play, after all time works against the killer and getting one survivor out of the game asap greatly benefits you. If as a Survivor you tend to get tunneled a lot you can try different perks and strategies to escape the chase and break free.
    The only real dick move the killer can make is facecamping the first guy he got.

    I'm still pretty new to this game but after playing both survivor and killer I think that survivors are the more toxic bunch and have more power to spoil the other ones game experience.

  • The_CrusaderThe_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    "Its bad enough when your teammates just hook farm you like idiots, but slugging them and then outright ignoring them to cross half the map to secure that kill is beyond a dick move. Its the kind of play that makes survivors whine and complain about how killers are op (when they're really not) and then form into SWFs (Which actually are op) just to avoid being subjected to that kind of situation."

    Exactly!! This is what I've been trying to tell people!!

    There's a 1 in 4 chance you're going to be hooked first. It sucks but someone has to go first. But then why should you have to suffer so bad just for that mistake? There's nothing more pathetic than killer mains trying to defend it with "just don't get caught first". That isn't always possible, and even if you don't then why should some other survivor have to suffer?

    You know at that point that the rest of your game consists of being unhooked and then kmmediately being tunneled down and put on the hook again. You can't do gens, you can't get unhooks, you've got nowhere nearby to run to, you're getting no points and a depip.....it's easy to see why many just disconnect. It's easier for them to chalk it up as a loss and move o to the next game.

    From what I've seen killers do ok for a few levels and then hit a plateau. They struggle a bit and then they all come away with this idea that (and you'll hear this line often) "if you don't tunnel you don't win". Which is completely false, but it does work like a charm at low ranks. However when you get to around purple ranks it stops working so well.

    The low level trappers after reset ate all like this. There's nothing more boring. I know if they hook someone and I get chased I'm completely safe as they're just killing time while waiting for the unhook. You know what happens when the survivor gets unhooked? The killer breaks the chase! Exactly as I knew they would. You also know that if the killer hooks on the far sidr of the map you're completely safe because there's no way in hell they're gonna stray that far from the person they want to tunnel.

    It's boring, it's predictable and it's really unfun for the survivor being tunneled. I feel like these killers that fo this rarely play survivor and don't know how it feels.
  • CrizpenCrizpen Member Posts: 129

    There are two sides of the argument, but both center around a killer's play style.

    On the one hand, running BBQ and Chili, as you point out, grants a great deal of bloodpoints if you hook all 4 survivors. So, if you're looking for the highest bloodpoint ending, targeting each survivor, one after the other, would be ideal. Matches are very rarely "ideal."

    If, after hooking the first survivor, for example, the others are too close, or hiding behind gen's, I don't have a target to run to. I have to go back to blind searching. This can lead to "tunneling" if you're unhooked before I can find another survivor to target. At that point, I know where two survivors are, one of whom is injured.

    On the other hand, if the killer is looking to make the most kills, and have the highest chance of 4k'ing, "tunneling" is the ideal strategy. If I hook you, I might look around for a bit to see if I can find someone else, until you're unhooked. As above, I now know where two survivors are, one of whom is injured and has already been hooked once. I could look for someone else, or I could go after the survivor who took you off the hook, but that would give you the chance to heal and lead to a longer chase later.

    In this way, targeted killing gives the killer the highest probability of keeping 1 player off the gens, and then dead faster than hooking three other people for the first time, before going back to you.

    In the end, the most successful killers are those who combine the two tactics into a hybrid. If I have the choice between hitting someone who is injured or starting a new chase, the injured player is going down. However, I need to keep more than 1 player off the gens, I need to apply pressure in multiple locations at the same time.

    For this reason I try to "tunnel" two players at the same time. If I hook you, see the next player with BBQ, and I can hook them about the same time you're getting off the hook, I can catch up to you again and keep the other two players busy pulling the both of you off the hook.

    This doesn't work for all killers, nor is it preferable for all builds.

    For example, this morning I played a "Make Your Choice" Hag build, where I would purposefully move away until the unhook happened, then Mint Rag myself back to one-hit down the survivor who made the save. In this case, the saving survivor was hooked while the survivor who was unhooked is injured and looking to spend time healing and escaping the area. Rinse and repeat.

    I've also played Freddy games with Dying Light, where the obsession begins in the dream world, and after the first hook, I Mori them.

    All of that description of different tactics is to explain that the killer is there to kill. In order to do that they capitalize on and make the best use of various perks and addon's.

    It's no different than a survivor using Dead Hard to get to a window to jump through, just before the killing blow. Or, when I play survivor, using Alert to know where the killer is, and to a degree, if they're headed to my side of the map so I can hide. To say that a killer shouldn't "tunnel" or - more accurately - target their attacks, or play defensively, is no different than saying survivors shouldn't use map items, perks and abilities to escape the killer.

    In the case of Dying Light, there is a built-in, very distinct benefit to killing the obsession as quickly as possible. In the case of Save the Best for Last, there's every incentive to hit every other survivor except the obsession.

    It's no different than you having the choice between working on a gen that's 50% done and one that hasn't been started. You're going to jump on the 50%, all else being equal. You're going to "tunnel" that gen, because it's the most efficient use of your time.

    The mistake you're making is thinking that the killer and survivors are there to work cooperatively, to have the most fun possible for everyone. That isn't the case. The survivors are doing everything they can to survive, and the killer is doing everything they can to kill. That's the nature of competitive games like DBD. If the killer isn't using a lag switch, or exploiting a bug, or otherwise exploiting the game, you really don't have much to complain about.

    Most of all, if you read these forums as a killer main, and played by all the "survivor rules," you'd rarely make a kill, or pip.

    All that said, face-campers are idiots. It's the only "toxic" tactic that I can wholeheartedly agree with survivors is utterly stupid. But not because it kills the hooked survivor, but because it greatly limits the killer's ability to kill the other competent survivors.

  • TaretsuTaretsu Member Posts: 46

    What if a killers doesn't play for BPs but for kills? Every killer match I go into I play to get as many kills as I can (or at least 3, cause I rarely slug to prevent the hatch from opening). BPs just come along. My fun from the killer parts comes from, well... killing! And considering the game mechanics, as someone already stated in this thread, tunnelling is the most efficient way towards a 4k goal. What is more efficient in terms of twice? Having to chase a surv up to two hits to hook them? Or getting the same result with one hit?

    And besides, ppl don't play SWF because they have a hard time in solo q. They play SWF because (brace yourselves) they want to play with friends!

    That being said, I do think that all these recent killer buffs could've been halved if SWF wasn't a thing. That feature alone is what breaks the game mechanics the most.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,924

    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

  • thekiller490490thekiller490490 Member Posts: 1,165
    Tunneling is one of those strategies that are very viable but are a lose for someone.
  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 6,555
    edited November 2018

    IT'S LIKE I'M STUCK IN A TIME VORTEX AND THE GHOSTS OF MY PAST MISTAKES HAVE COME BACK TO HAUNT ME!

    Post edited by Raccoon on
  • George_SorosGeorge_Soros Member Posts: 2,270
    @Ryuhi that's why  I wish I could see survivors' ranks in lobby. I tend to try tunneling one survivor out of the game early, but if the first one I hook is a rank 17, I don't want to be too hard on them. And it does happen sometimes that you're matched against someone on much lower rank.
  • CardgreyCardgrey Member Posts: 1,416

    @IrgendeinIrrer said:
    As far as I know there are problems in every competetive multiplayer game.
    I think the players are at fault. Everyone thinks it's funny to troll other people, yet when you get trolled yourself it suddenly stops being funny. People like to utterly destroy noobs and make some nice Youtube Videos out of it. In Overwatch for example, some people purposely play bad on a smurf account just so they can stomp through bronce players and make fun of them online.
    All that creates a lot of frustration and the players who just wanted to play the game start taking out their anger on other players and the cycle continues.
    I think survivors who complain about killers ruining the game are pretty much that bicycle meme where the dude puts a stick in his wheel while driving, falls and blames it on someone else.
    Also I can't really blame survivors for wanting to play SWF, if they play properly.
    I'm fed up with playing survivor on my own, random teammates tend do disconnect after they get downed once or won't struggle at all on the hook. Now in these cases you can't really blame the killer, it's your teammates who left you hanging.

    I also think tunneling is a viable way for the killer to play, after all time works against the killer and getting one survivor out of the game asap greatly benefits you. If as a Survivor you tend to get tunneled a lot you can try different perks and strategies to escape the chase and break free.
    The only real dick move the killer can make is facecamping the first guy he got.

    I'm still pretty new to this game but after playing both survivor and killer I think that survivors are the more toxic bunch and have more power to spoil the other ones game experience

    U mean this one o.o

  • CrizpenCrizpen Member Posts: 129

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    This would be like saying survivors should only 33% a gen before running off to a fresh one. It's more fun for the killer if you waste time instead of focusing on completing your objectives.

    But, survivors aren't there to make sure the killer has fun, and the killer isn't there to make sure the survivors do. But survivors have the advantage in that if they aren't having fun, and the die quickly, they can join a new game; killers, on the other hand, stay until the last survivor is dead or escapes.

    You might not like that a killer capitalizes on the fact that you're injured, or dead on hook, where another survivor isn't, but he doesn't particularly like when you run back to complete a nearly finished generator instead of starting a new one. And yet, I don't see a lot of killer mains jumping on the forums to complain about survivors completing generators. After all, that's what survivors are supposed to do: try to survive. By the same token, "killer" isn't just a fancy title: they're meant to kill you.

    If they aren't exploiting, lag switching, hacking or otherwise cheating, take your lumps and join a new lobby when you die.

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,200
    Ryuhi said:

    Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?

    You get far more points for hooking all players twice than you do for a single kill while everyone else gen rushes. BBQ and chilli, the arguably most important perk for any killer, grants ABSURDLY more BP for NOT tunneling a single player. So why do so many players do it? Its often said that only low rank killers rely on it, yet I see it in high ranks all the time, and they then go on to say they do it on purpose to try to depip. What kind of [BAD WORD] up system rewards that kind of behavior (no pun intended.)

    Its bad enough when your teammates just hook farm you like idiots, but slugging them and then outright ignoring them to cross half the map to secure that kill is beyond a dick move. Its the kind of play that makes survivors whine and complain about how killers are op (when they're really not) and then form into SWFs (Which actually are op) just to avoid being subjected to that kind of situation.

    Yes, I know being a 0K game hurts, especially when survivors are taunting jerks about it. Maybe thats part of why a lot of killers have zero empathy for it: if they get outlooped by someone and cant handle it, they're effectively being held hostage for the rest of the game, and tend to take it out on other players. Thats just repeating the cycle though, and creating more necessity for it.

    TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.

    also dont worry i already got my Rx for gitting gud from the good doctor.

    If I wouldn't actually try to kill survivors, wouldn't that be BM and some kind of disrespect towards their skill?

    In the current state of the game it simply is common sense to tunnel and it's the devs job to give incentive not to tunnel, e.g. action debuffs for fresh hooks 
  • Wolf74Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959
    edited November 2018

    @Ryuhi said:
    Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?
    ...

    TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.

    First off: In the past the term "tunneling" was used to describe a bad style of play, where some killer just entered tunnelvision and ignored everything around them, including survivors doing gens right beside them.
    They did not protect the gens or applied pressure on the map, they just chased one target no matter what happend around them.
    That was "bad play".
    Now survivor call literally ANYTHING "tunneling", even if it is not a "bad play", but instead it is smart en efficient.
    It has become a combatterm to apply social peer pressure on player to make them not play like that.
    Chasing someone till he is down and on a hook is called "tunneling".
    Hooking the same guy twice in a row is called tunneling.
    Avoiding bait or people that want to tank a hit is called tunneling.

    The problem in the debate about "tunneling" is that people talk about 2 separate things and call it the same.

    1 is a bad style of play, that hurts the killer.
    2 is a smart and efficient way to play for killer.

    The problem is that survivor player do not acknowledge that it is a valid tactic and call it all "bad" playstyle.

    And second: "tunneling" has little to do with "punishing" anyone, since it is smart to remove one player from the game ASAP, no matter how he played before.

    My suggestion would be to talk about "tunnelvision" if it is the kind of play that actually hurts the killer and "tunneling" only if it really is an intended focusing on one player to eliminate him asap.
    Anything else is just "chasing".
    But I don't expect this words to get along with the community.

  • Saint_UkraineSaint_Ukraine Member Posts: 944
    Ryuhi said:

    Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?

    You get far more points for hooking all players twice than you do for a single kill while everyone else gen rushes. BBQ and chilli, the arguably most important perk for any killer, grants ABSURDLY more BP for NOT tunneling a single player. So why do so many players do it? Its often said that only low rank killers rely on it, yet I see it in high ranks all the time, and they then go on to say they do it on purpose to try to depip. What kind of [BAD WORD] up system rewards that kind of behavior (no pun intended.)

    Its bad enough when your teammates just hook farm you like idiots, but slugging them and then outright ignoring them to cross half the map to secure that kill is beyond a dick move. Its the kind of play that makes survivors whine and complain about how killers are op (when they're really not) and then form into SWFs (Which actually are op) just to avoid being subjected to that kind of situation.

    Yes, I know being a 0K game hurts, especially when survivors are taunting jerks about it. Maybe thats part of why a lot of killers have zero empathy for it: if they get outlooped by someone and cant handle it, they're effectively being held hostage for the rest of the game, and tend to take it out on other players. Thats just repeating the cycle though, and creating more necessity for it.

    TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.

    also dont worry i already got my Rx for gitting gud from the good doctor.

    "Be excellent to each other.." Is that a Bill and Ted reference?
  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824
    edited November 2018

    @Crizpen said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    This would be like saying survivors should only 33% a gen before running off to a fresh one. It's more fun for the killer if you waste time instead of focusing on completing your objectives.

    But, survivors aren't there to make sure the killer has fun, and the killer isn't there to make sure the survivors do. But survivors have the advantage in that if they aren't having fun, and the die quickly, they can join a new game; killers, on the other hand, stay until the last survivor is dead or escapes.

    You might not like that a killer capitalizes on the fact that you're injured, or dead on hook, where another survivor isn't, but he doesn't particularly like when you run back to complete a nearly finished generator instead of starting a new one. And yet, I don't see a lot of killer mains jumping on the forums to complain about survivors completing generators. After all, that's what survivors are supposed to do: try to survive. By the same token, "killer" isn't just a fancy title: they're meant to kill you.

    If they aren't exploiting, lag switching, hacking or otherwise cheating, take your lumps and join a new lobby when you die.

    Yet when the killer gets a 1K due to tunneling and the survivor being good at looping the killer and the killer REFUSES to change targets it becomes an issue right? I’ve literally ran some boosted killers around for five gens proceeded by a fat facecamp. It’s the killers only option to camp when they have no kills and all the gens are left but they got to that point due to poor gen control, tunneling, and not changing targets. That’s kind of tunneling I’m talking around. Then people wanna throw around that killers need a MASSIVE buff which in all reality it is because some players just play like foreheads and extremely boosted. Sure some killers (Freddy and Leatherface come to mind) need some reworks, but if you’re bad with Billy and Myers and can’t get ONE kill even when tunneling it reflects on the killer, not survivor.

    A lot of times it is your own teammates that screw you over due to farming you on the hook and the killer being around then you are the one who gets screwed over. I can’t really blame the killer but when I am the killer and I notice survivors getting farmed I won’t ONLY tunnel them especially if they are good at loops or non-toxic. I’ll instead go after the farmer, but that’s just me.

  • CrizpenCrizpen Member Posts: 129

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Crizpen said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    This would be like saying survivors should only 33% a gen before running off to a fresh one. It's more fun for the killer if you waste time instead of focusing on completing your objectives.

    But, survivors aren't there to make sure the killer has fun, and the killer isn't there to make sure the survivors do. But survivors have the advantage in that if they aren't having fun, and the die quickly, they can join a new game; killers, on the other hand, stay until the last survivor is dead or escapes.

    You might not like that a killer capitalizes on the fact that you're injured, or dead on hook, where another survivor isn't, but he doesn't particularly like when you run back to complete a nearly finished generator instead of starting a new one. And yet, I don't see a lot of killer mains jumping on the forums to complain about survivors completing generators. After all, that's what survivors are supposed to do: try to survive. By the same token, "killer" isn't just a fancy title: they're meant to kill you.

    If they aren't exploiting, lag switching, hacking or otherwise cheating, take your lumps and join a new lobby when you die.

    Yet when the killer gets a 1K due to tunneling and the survivor being good at looping the killer and the killer REFUSES to change targets it becomes an issue right? I’ve literally ran some boosted killers around for five gens proceeded by a fat facecamp. It’s the killers only option to camp when they have no kills and all the gens are left but they got to that point due to poor gen control, tunneling, and not changing targets. That’s kind of tunneling I’m talking around. Then people wanna throw around that killers need a MASSIVE buff which in all reality it is because some players just play like foreheads and extremely boosted. Sure some killers (Freddy and Leatherface come to mind) need some reworks, but if you’re bad with Billy and Myers and can’t get ONE kill even when tunneling it reflects on the killer, not survivor.

    A lot of times it is your own teammates that screw you over due to farming you on the hook and the killer being around then you are the one who gets screwed over. I can’t really blame the killer but when I am the killer and I notice survivors getting farmed I won’t ONLY tunnel them especially if they are good at loops or non-toxic. I’ll instead go after the farmer, but that’s just me.

    In the example you cite: the killer follows a single survivor through the whole match, and then face camps them for the 1k, the killer doesn't pip. A single hook, along with the at hook penalty, isn't enough to pip.

    I'm not sure I'd describe that as "tunneling," or the more accurate "focused fire," so much as stubbornness and stupidity.

    That's not a good killer for several reasons, but those killers are extremely rare at any decent rank. They'll learn, hopefully, or get too frustrated and quit. When it's happened when I've played as survivor, we were able to open the doors and body-block for the exit. It doesn't always turn out that way, but assuming it isn't a Hillbilly or Leatherface, it's very doable.

    But then, I come across all sorts of bad survivors too. Particularly those who DC as soon as they hear my nurse blink for the first time, or the first time they're down'ed, or as soon as we land in the swamp, and leave the rest of the survivors at a handicap. Or, as you point out, go for a save while the killer is still there. Or sandbag other survivors to escape a chase, or train their team to divert attention from themselves... I'll never stop being amazed when I'm called a "camper," when I catch a survivor going for a save and they loop me around the hooked survivor instead of pulling me away. Or a "camper" when they complete 4 gens on one side of the map and leave me with a gen trifecta that's fast and easy to patrol.

    My point is, bad players exist on both sides, and either side can ruin a match for you as a survivor. In your example, sure, I can see that the match was terrible for the one survivor who was chased the entire match before being face camped. The other three got their gens and got out. Not a great match, but you move on to the next. On the other hand, a survivor who DC's on his team, or sandbags them, or trains them, or simply kills themselves on the hook... that hurts all the remaining survivors far more than the killer chasing a single person. And quitting is contagious. As often as not when one survivor DC's at the start, another will as well, and I'm left either feeling like a dick for killing the remaining two or letting them farm the gens and escape.

    I'm not saying the killer you describe isn't a problem, and maybe I'm just super lucky to hardly ever come across them, but in my experience there are a lot of other things to be upset about before that rare killer in the purple / red ranks that acts like that.

  • PoweasPoweas Member Posts: 5,873

    They should stop tunnelling.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,924

    @Wolf74 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    Before we start, no, I'm not talking about OH YOU HIT ME MORE THAN ONCE IN A ROW THATS TUNNELLING or other juvenile bullshit. I'm talking about taking a single player and expressly forbidding them from being able to do anything in the game outside of a chase and eventual hook. I feel like this is most often brought on by survivors who play like #########, in SWFs teabagging, flashlighting, and spewing every ounce of disrespect they can muster. fine. But what about when its that player who literally spawns right next to you, and does nothing to show an ounce of disrespect? Do they not deserve a chance to play the game?
    ...

    TL;DR Be the change in the community you want to see. survivors who act like shitheels deserve everything coming to them, but fishing for salty survivor tears out of solo queue survivors is the exact reason why so many of them become game breakingly cancerous SWFs. All we have to do is not play like asshats and be excellent to one another. It will be impossible to correctly balance the game until this human condition is treated.

    First off: In the past the term "tunneling" was used to describe a bad style of play, where some killer just entered tunnelvision and ignored everything around them, including survivors doing gens right beside them.
    They did not protect the gens or applied pressure on the map, they just chased one target no matter what happend around them.
    That was "bad play".
    Now survivor call literally ANYTHING "tunneling", even if it is not a "bad play", but instead it is smart en efficient.
    It has become a combatterm to apply social peer pressure on player to make them not play like that.
    Chasing someone till he is down and on a hook is called "tunneling".
    Hooking the same guy twice in a row is called tunneling.
    Avoiding bait or people that want to tank a hit is called tunneling.

    The problem in the debate about "tunneling" is that people talk about 2 separate things and call it the same.

    1 is a bad style of play, that hurts the killer.
    2 is a smart and efficient way to play for killer.

    The problem is that survivor player do not acknowledge that it is a valid tactic and call it all "bad" playstyle.

    And second: "tunneling" has little to do with "punishing" anyone, since it is smart to remove one player from the game ASAP, no matter how he played before.

    My suggestion would be to talk about "tunnelvision" if it is the kind of play that actually hurts the killer and "tunneling" only if it really is an intended focusing on one player to eliminate him asap.
    Anything else is just "chasing".
    But I don't expect this words to get along with the community.

    I was pretty much exclusively talking about number 1, while conceding that number 2 IS a valid tactic, and smart. The disconnect between the two often comes from, as you mentioned, people being exceedingly willing to not distinguish between the two and cry victim. Unfortunately that argument and defensiveness is what causes number 1 to exist and continue t fester within the community.

    The specific game I was referencing with my initial post involved other players (who were randoms and not even swf) straight up running into attacks to try to get the killer to do anything else (half the time already wounded even) and being promptly ignored. It was just a 3 minute chase, followed by a 5 minute chase, then no rescue because the players saw him face camp and just smartly worked on gens. That is the kind of actual tunneling that is bad for killer and survivor alike, and just devolves the game in general.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    @Crizpen said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Crizpen said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    This would be like saying survivors should only 33% a gen before running off to a fresh one. It's more fun for the killer if you waste time instead of focusing on completing your objectives.

    But, survivors aren't there to make sure the killer has fun, and the killer isn't there to make sure the survivors do. But survivors have the advantage in that if they aren't having fun, and the die quickly, they can join a new game; killers, on the other hand, stay until the last survivor is dead or escapes.

    You might not like that a killer capitalizes on the fact that you're injured, or dead on hook, where another survivor isn't, but he doesn't particularly like when you run back to complete a nearly finished generator instead of starting a new one. And yet, I don't see a lot of killer mains jumping on the forums to complain about survivors completing generators. After all, that's what survivors are supposed to do: try to survive. By the same token, "killer" isn't just a fancy title: they're meant to kill you.

    If they aren't exploiting, lag switching, hacking or otherwise cheating, take your lumps and join a new lobby when you die.

    Yet when the killer gets a 1K due to tunneling and the survivor being good at looping the killer and the killer REFUSES to change targets it becomes an issue right? I’ve literally ran some boosted killers around for five gens proceeded by a fat facecamp. It’s the killers only option to camp when they have no kills and all the gens are left but they got to that point due to poor gen control, tunneling, and not changing targets. That’s kind of tunneling I’m talking around. Then people wanna throw around that killers need a MASSIVE buff which in all reality it is because some players just play like foreheads and extremely boosted. Sure some killers (Freddy and Leatherface come to mind) need some reworks, but if you’re bad with Billy and Myers and can’t get ONE kill even when tunneling it reflects on the killer, not survivor.

    A lot of times it is your own teammates that screw you over due to farming you on the hook and the killer being around then you are the one who gets screwed over. I can’t really blame the killer but when I am the killer and I notice survivors getting farmed I won’t ONLY tunnel them especially if they are good at loops or non-toxic. I’ll instead go after the farmer, but that’s just me.

    In the example you cite: the killer follows a single survivor through the whole match, and then face camps them for the 1k, the killer doesn't pip. A single hook, along with the at hook penalty, isn't enough to pip.

    I'm not sure I'd describe that as "tunneling," or the more accurate "focused fire," so much as stubbornness and stupidity.

    That's not a good killer for several reasons, but those killers are extremely rare at any decent rank. They'll learn, hopefully, or get too frustrated and quit. When it's happened when I've played as survivor, we were able to open the doors and body-block for the exit. It doesn't always turn out that way, but assuming it isn't a Hillbilly or Leatherface, it's very doable.

    But then, I come across all sorts of bad survivors too. Particularly those who DC as soon as they hear my nurse blink for the first time, or the first time they're down'ed, or as soon as we land in the swamp, and leave the rest of the survivors at a handicap. Or, as you point out, go for a save while the killer is still there. Or sandbag other survivors to escape a chase, or train their team to divert attention from themselves... I'll never stop being amazed when I'm called a "camper," when I catch a survivor going for a save and they loop me around the hooked survivor instead of pulling me away. Or a "camper" when they complete 4 gens on one side of the map and leave me with a gen trifecta that's fast and easy to patrol.

    My point is, bad players exist on both sides, and either side can ruin a match for you as a survivor. In your example, sure, I can see that the match was terrible for the one survivor who was chased the entire match before being face camped. The other three got their gens and got out. Not a great match, but you move on to the next. On the other hand, a survivor who DC's on his team, or sandbags them, or trains them, or simply kills themselves on the hook... that hurts all the remaining survivors far more than the killer chasing a single person. And quitting is contagious. As often as not when one survivor DC's at the start, another will as well, and I'm left either feeling like a dick for killing the remaining two or letting them farm the gens and escape.

    I'm not saying the killer you describe isn't a problem, and maybe I'm just super lucky to hardly ever come across them, but in my experience there are a lot of other things to be upset about before that rare killer in the purple / red ranks that acts like that.

    For sure there are bad players on both sides. Just last night, three people joined in and it was a Doctor (I hate Doctor so much) and a Claudette player decided it was a good idea to start sandbagging while the Doctor was playing extremely aggressive, don’t know why...there was only three people. Probably just wanted to get the match over with.

    Just seems as though some killers ALWAYS either camp the hook (Wraith) or single out one survivor and get a 1K (Freddy). Freddy isn’t even as bad as people make him out to be, I can easily get a 4K but because some people are super stubborn and want those 6 Remember Me tokens, they single out the obsession and ONLY manage to kill them. Freddy is weak but I manage to always do well with him. A lot of survivors do however exaggerate how you play...one person called me a camper when I played Freddy. How am I gonna camp properly with Freddy? I literally circled the map looking for survivors and came back to the hook and saw David running to the hook.

    I have a sore spot for some killers because I never get good games with them such as Wraith, Leatherface, Freddy, and Huntress. Just in my own experience these are the killers that play the worst in terms of being too stubborn to change targets. I come into lobbies with these players at least once every two to three days. Not a lot but still it can be frustrating to be the tunneled survivor. Must be because I’m at Rank 9 at the moment...a lot of boosted killers/survivors in green ranks

  • EesaneEesane Member Posts: 27

    Tunneling is just a way to get it to a 3v1 rather than 4v1. I've been tunneled hard where other survivors were running on front of the killer to try taking aggro to no avail. It sucks but I just mumble to myself about how the killer is allowed to play like a dick and move on.

  • DocOctoberDocOctober Member Posts: 2,230

    It only makes sense to go for the weaker target if you play with a win in mind. To get rid of a Survivor as quickly as possible is the best way to buy yourself time and diminish the Survivors' chances to escape.

  • CetrenCetren Member Posts: 979
    It's the same argument again, you get more points! People don't always care about points. Sometimes they want a game where they aren't handicapping themselves in order to make sure that everyone "has a chance to play the game."

    People do it because it's efficient and healthy survivors waste too much time.

    No, it's not a dick move, its smart. 2 survivors down a hook and one healthy is not as good as having one survivor down 2 hooks and 2 slugged. 

    It's not a cycle. It's really not. You can have a long chase and not loop. You can have a good game and not tunnel. Both are annoying, and both sides do both things. It's why I try not to loop as survivor, and I try not to tunnel as killer. That doesn't mean that there isn't a situation in which my best option is to loop, or where I just prefer to take someone down instead of spreading the pain.

    You break a chain (or a team in this case) by breaking the weak link, not by evenly applying pressure. Yeah it sucks to be tunneled, and there's people who abuse it, but no action should be taken against it unless you want SWF try hards to take the inch and make it a mile, like everything the devs give them.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 1,924
    edited November 2018

    the irony is how much some people in this topic are tunneling a few specific words and not reading actual posts. This discussion is solely based around when killers tunnel to the point of it being a bad strategy, I.E. ignoring gens popping left and right and refusing to switch targets. There is a very big difference between "not dropping a chase" or " patrolling a perimeter" vs being magnetically drawn to a single player and being blind to everything else in the game. The reason the points argument was brought up is because its the devs' way to try to incentivize players to actually play the game (and it gets the added bonus of being one of the best detection perks in the game to boot.) Also, more bloodpoints lets you buy more addons, which is universally helpful regardless of your objective when playing.

    It's extra damning at higher ranks, when that one person you're tunneling might be very good at loops, and you basically manage to do literally nothing as killer the entire game because of it. Just like all forms of adapting gameplay, you have to learn when its changing from good strategy to bad strategy, and adjust accordingly. In all likelihood, one of the survivors playing m1 simulator is worse at loops, and will give shorter chases and more slugs/downs/hooks.

    In an attempt to avoid further miscommunication, I will reiterate: Downing a survivor shortly after an unsafe hook, chasing after someone you just slugged, not giving up a chase after a loop or two, running bloodhound, none of those are tunneling. They are good strategy, especially when in the vein of punishing mistakes. If a survivor can say in post game chat "I didn't even know who the killer was most of the game," however, then you should probably re-evaluate your priorities in chasing and tracking survivors.

  • AttackfrogAttackfrog Member Posts: 1,134
    Sometimes I tunnel with a killer beyond all reasonable play. I ignore other survivors, gens popping, noise notifications etc.

    I do it because sometimes it just feels like the thing this particular killer would do. 

    I have done it with Myers mostly....Sometimes it's just fun. I usually tunnel the obsession (yeah, I get ds'd) but it feels like how a slasher movie would play out lol.

    I get a 1k....Sometimes a 0k....but it's worth it.k

    I play for fun. Can't control how others play, so I play how I want.
  • BigBlackMoriBigBlackMori Member Posts: 220

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

    No it’s not what you should do. Good survivors will easily gen rush you when you tunnel and camp a single survivor. You’re leaving three survivors to fix gens. If you stand by the hook and they KNOW you are camping, by the time the one survivor on the hook is in struggle mode there is one generator left. This is one of the reasons why killers complain about generators getting done quickly because they have poor gameplay and poor gen control

  • BigBlackMoriBigBlackMori Member Posts: 220

    @MegMain98 said:

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

    No it’s not what you should do. Good survivors will easily gen rush you when you tunnel and camp a single survivor. You’re leaving three survivors to fix gens. If you stand by the hook and they KNOW you are camping, by the time the one survivor on the hook is in struggle mode there is one generator left. This is one of the reasons why killers complain about generators getting done quickly because they have poor gameplay and poor gen control

    So you're telling me the constant 4k's i get at rank 1 doing this are all in my head?

  • OrionOrion Member Posts: 21,675

    @MegMain98 said:

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

    No it’s not what you should do. Good survivors will easily gen rush you when you tunnel and camp a single survivor. You’re leaving three survivors to fix gens. If you stand by the hook and they KNOW you are camping, by the time the one survivor on the hook is in struggle mode there is one generator left. This is one of the reasons why killers complain about generators getting done quickly because they have poor gameplay and poor gen control

    Good Survivors are rare.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824
    edited November 2018

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

    No it’s not what you should do. Good survivors will easily gen rush you when you tunnel and camp a single survivor. You’re leaving three survivors to fix gens. If you stand by the hook and they KNOW you are camping, by the time the one survivor on the hook is in struggle mode there is one generator left. This is one of the reasons why killers complain about generators getting done quickly because they have poor gameplay and poor gen control

    So you're telling me the constant 4k's i get at rank 1 doing this are all in my head?

    I never brought up your 4K’s nor did I know you were Rank 1, that is irrelevant and frankly I really don’t care. Getting a 4K is about as impressive as escaping as a survivor, which is not very much.

    Point is that good survivors will start to gen rush if the killer starts to camp at 4 or 5 gens left. Camping when the exit gates are powered is really the only thing you can do at that time, but with 4 or 5 gens left camping shouldn’t be a necessity when you have to control gens to avoid other survivors from escaping. It leads to many killers complaining about generators getting done too quickly because they camp the hook while the survivors gen rush because the killer isn’t around to stop them. It’s that simple.

    Post edited by MegMain98 on
  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    @Orion said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @BigBlackMori said:

    @MegMain98 said:

    @Ryuhi said:
    You are both missing the thing I was focusing on, which is when tunneling is done as a BAD strategy. I understand that it can have merits in a lot of cases (some killers base kits practically focus on it, like bing bong boi here) but there are many times where killers will put themselves in an absurdly disadvantageous position just to make a single survivor's game awful. I'm talking survivors coming out of games with a 0/700/0/8000 point spread because the killer refuses to go after anyone else, defend gens, etc. It sounds hyperbolic, but it happens a lot, even at red ranks.

    I understand why a lot of killers get defensive about this, because of the overwhelming survivor mentality of "I need to survive every single game behavior plz," but there's definitely a middle ground to be had. The best games are always ones where the post game chat isnt full of salt from either side, but people offering advice and complimenting good plays.

    This is exactly the kind of games that SHOULD be happening. There is a reason that some survivors are salty in the post game chat. The 0/700/0/8000 spread of points is the WORST as a survivor.

    Yes, tunneling is a viable strategy but when the killer CONTINUOUSLY camps the hook with 4 or 5 gens left and ONLY goes after that one survivor, it’s just bad gameplay...making one survivors game awful for a stupid reason (maybe they have gotten all the trophies and the killer feels like they have something to prove, being a Twitcch streamer, bringing in a flashlight, etc...) is just unsportsmanlike. All survivor complains are not from pure salt due to having entitlement but maybe JUST MAYBE some killers actuallu have bad gameplay that results in a 0K/1K from making one survivors game brutal for no reason. It’s much more enjoyable when the killer is after ALL survivors.

    Tunneling and camping when there are lots of gens is exactly when you SHOULD do it. And it works, too - get an opponent out of the game early and now its a 1v3, not a 1v4. The other gens are easy to defend against 3 survivors.

    No it’s not what you should do. Good survivors will easily gen rush you when you tunnel and camp a single survivor. You’re leaving three survivors to fix gens. If you stand by the hook and they KNOW you are camping, by the time the one survivor on the hook is in struggle mode there is one generator left. This is one of the reasons why killers complain about generators getting done quickly because they have poor gameplay and poor gen control

    Good Survivors are rare.

    Good survivor/killers are a rarity in this game anyways. I don’t run into too many overly altruistic survivors too be honest. I sit on the hook until struggle a lot of the time.

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