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Does anybody else find BBQ/WGLF a bit concerning?

PassarinoTPassarinoT Member Posts: 903
edited May 2021 in General Discussions

Now I'm not saying the use of these perks is bad, but why do the devs think that putting a perk in a game that doubles the gain of points seem okay. It's almost like they know the grind is horrible and want to alleviate it with a perk.

While I don't mind running them, I wish that it was less necessary in my head? The main reason I play anymore is to level characters, so of course I run it. But it seems so odd that if you don't run these perks, you could be getting 50% the amount of bloodpoints in a match.

It just seems oddly drastic and like a bad band-aid for a grindy progression system.

Personally, I think that either the grind should be reduced or bloodpoint gain should be higher, and that BBQ/WGLF's BP bonus should be reduced to ~25%.

I know this sounds ridiculous but think about it, if High BP by default/Lower BP boost was the norm, you would be gaining a lot more when not running those perks and gaining a similar amount when running those perks by comparison to now.


  • PassarinoTPassarinoT Member Posts: 903

    (Also I am aware that these perks have been around for ages, so have I. It's just odd that they're still so dramatic in numbers for bonuses.)

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,280

    While I run both, I kind of agree.

    It would be nice if instead of BBQ/WGLF, we had a slew of perks that gave BP bonus in individual categories. Maybe BBQ gives a bonus for Sacrifice, and WGLF gives a bonus in Altruism. Meanwhile there's also things like TotH. Open that up more, so there are multiple ways to boost your BP with a few different perks.

    Then, to compensate, increase the BP cap for each category from 8000 to 12000. It would allow you to gain more bloodpoints for exemplary play, and increase the value of perks/add-ons that increase the in-game bloodpoint rewards.

    If WGLF only increased Altruism by 100%, but you could gain 12000 BP in Altruism (giving you 24000 for just one category) it might more-or-less round out better across the board.

  • SkeletalEliteSkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,210

    I just wish WGLF's benefit was good enough to be a meta perk IE the bloodpoint bonus was attached to BT because I would literally always run it if that were the case. At least if killers are deciding to run a perk for BP they're also getting a meta info perk that is always useful. Survivors though? Sorry you get a niche ability that will only occasionally come in handy

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,626

    Bbq isn't actually all that great, most people including myself use it just for the BP. Like sure I can see someone across the map but they can soon hide the aura behind a gen or in a locker, even if they dont it's a long distance to waste time and I'll probably lose that gen especially as a 110 speed. If bbq lost the bp I'd run tremors, or whatever the new bp earning perk is. Plus it's a 4v1, I'm bound to find someone regardless of an aura 40+meters away

  • Jb94Jb94 Member Posts: 208

    I agree. I'd love to run something other than BBQ, but it's basically a lock based on the bloodpoints alone. Even bad games are less tilting when you leave with double what you'd earn by default.

    Maybe they could ameliorate the problem by adding this effect to otherwise really bad perks and having the effect stack- like if predator awarded up to 100% bonus in hunting for example it might actually see use.

    At this point allowing this kind of stacking wouldn't even be game breaking- if I managed to make 300k from a single game it still wouldn't put a dent in unlocking all perks on everyone.

  • SkeletalEliteSkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,210

    It's far better than WGLF.

    BBQ is going to give you useful information at least once a game.

    With WGLF you'd be lucky to heal a slug up once every 3 games.

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,626

    Okay and killer is much harder and a 4v1... like I explained bbq isn't what makes it meta it's the BP. I use both on everyone and honestly hardly ever get good use from bbq unless I'm a high mobility killer. Wanting bt which is already meta as hell means making it a always used, doesnt seem very fair or balanced or even a good idea... that's like saying attached the BP for killer to ruin or something already strong and useful

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2021

    BBQ is a healthy perk because it forces the killer to seek out multiple survivors, and provides an objective besides camping. That's why it has BPs, because it helps survivors almost as much as it helps the killer.

    WGLF is a perk that gets you protecting other survivors, and making good plays that take pressure off those survivors, as well as rewarding safe unhooks. So again it's rewarding play that helps the other players.

    I'm not really sure what else they could add to WGLF, or what perks could get the BP bonus instead, that would help out the other players in the game as much as WGLF. Babysitter maybe? But that's even more niche.

    BT shouldn't get it, because it's a meta perk on it's own right. It doesn't make you a target over the survivor you unhooked, it just gives them a free health state.

  • Nos37Nos37 Member Posts: 2,713

    You pointed out why the grind exists...

    "The main reason I play anymore is to level characters"

    If they removed the grind and you had everything you could ever want, would you still play as often?

  • PassarinoTPassarinoT Member Posts: 903

    Maybe? I'm uncertain on that. But if the game were still fun and no longer a stressful thing? Man, I'd play this so much more often. But it physically stresses me out. Only reason I level characters is because I have all killers PIII level 50 with all perks, and I feel an odd need to keep this up. I love horror and it's like this is my hobby. I just wish it were more worthwhile.

    I think that the grind should exist, but on a much smaller scale.

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,467

    I wouldn't consider running neither then

    why would i get punished for running a perk that gives Bonus BP,

    that's just bad game design all round

  • AVoiceOfReasonAVoiceOfReason Member Posts: 2,469

    Give me 4 perks that just allow double bloodpoints on both survivor and killer and I would ALWAYS run them.

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 2,973

    The imbalance of the two, the huge advantage BBQ gives is very concerning for me. A survivor perk used as much as BBQ would be met with the almighty nerf hammer already.

  • JudgementJudgement Member Posts: 955
    edited May 2021

    With regards to the nerf hammer - I doubt that, Sluzzy.

    I do agree however that BBQ&C having aura reading can make it very strong on Killers with great mobility, ie Blight, Nurse, Hillbilly, etc. But outside of these specific cases where it permits immediate “snowballing” from one hook, it serves a good purpose to discourage hook camping. Even so, you can dodge BBQ - get in a locker, hide behind a generator, or find a safe hard-to-reach loop or zone that discourages the Killer from going after you to begin with.

    Would you rather the Killer staring at and slapping you on the hook for two minutes, or going after somebody else giving you the chance to get out?

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 2,973

    It being too strong on some killers is why it should be nerfed. Double standards to perk balancing is why BBQ is godly and WGLF is meh. Power Struggle is completely trash and Starstruck is OP. If something is unfair, it needs to be nerfed. BBQ has been complained about for years and nothing done. Except a lot of survivor nerfs, map nerfs, now BBQ is now stronger than ever.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,687

    Yes! Nerf a perk that gives killers an incentive to leave the hook. What could possibly go wrong?!

    I already see the next thread where survivors complain about camping...

  • JasixJasix Member Posts: 1,225

    BBQ encourages killers to not tunnel/camp - you wanna get those 4 stacks.

    WGLF encourages survivors to take protection hits and unhook - you wanna get those 4 stacks.

    It's not like 100% is automatic - they have conditions on both that have to be met.

    Encouraging players to play more "fair" and "altruistic" is a good thing. I wish there were more alternative perks for both sides which encouraged such behaviors- think it would be healthy for the game overall.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,604

    Bbq is a survivor perk to bribe the killer away from "camp"ing and "tunneling". And strangely the killer has to equip it.

    I dont understand how survivors who are knowledgable about this game should ever complain about this perk. Especially with its many conditions that make countering easier.

  • nursewannabenursewannabe Member Posts: 1,075

    The fact that it's still extremely easier to get stacks on BBQ compared to WGLF (its main use doesn't even reward a stack!) is what triggers me most

  • ZagridZagrid Member Posts: 999

    The grind is mount everest.

    Those perks are like snow shoes, it helps but you need so much more to actually get through it.

  • Nos37Nos37 Member Posts: 2,713

    BBQ encourages camping if survivors try to counter it with a locker.

    BBQ encourages excessive slugging to stall the game for that 4th stack survivor you could never find.

    WGLF encourages hook rushing to beat other survivors and get your stack, which encourages the killer camping.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,860
    edited May 2021

    I'm not opposed to changing the grind up a bit, but all they'd really have to do is just make everything cheaper on the bloodweb.

  • deckyrdeckyr Member Posts: 600
    edited May 2021

    start with double bps on weekends. every weekend.

    then we'll see how it feels from there.

    personally i'd also make it so every bp offering acts like bloody party streamers (acts for all players) but, like i said. we'll start with weekends being double bps and feel it out from there.

  • nursewannabenursewannabe Member Posts: 1,075

    Honestly I'd prefer them just removing perk tiers at this point. What's the point of IW tier 1? Considering all the perk there are out there and all the characters, it's just gatekeeping

  • Nos37Nos37 Member Posts: 2,713
    edited May 2021

    Survivors are already complaining about camping.

    The only "nerf" BBQ needs is a change to its ability to give huge advantages to certain killers and its ability to feed way too much info via aura reading.

    This is what 4 seconds of aura reading allows:

    • Hillbilly, Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Oni, Legion, and Wraith homing in on a moving target with incredible speed
    • Cross-map sniping with a Huntress hatchet (against a moving target)
    • The killer knowing:
      • Which survivor is which by their aura silhouette (unless duplicate characters & cosmetics are used and both have the same health state)
      • Who's injured
      • Who's healing
      • Who's repairing
      • Who's cleansing
      • Who has Urban Evasion equipped

    Using location bubbles instead of aura reading would still give the killer info about where the survivors are (and still allow cross-map sniping against stationary targets), but it won't tell them what the survivors are doing. It won't tell killers which direction survivors are moving (if at all); what their health states are; which perks they might have equipped; it wouldn't chew through the very few Distortion stacks a survivor might have; and it would further discourage camping because survivors cannot hide their location bubbles using lockers to give the killer a false negative.


    WGLF just needs to encourage safer unhooking. Maybe a stack can be gained from being within 24m of the hook when the survivor is unhooked (this reduces the need to race others to the unhook, and increases the unhooked survivor's chances of being double-healed at the hook instead of simply being farmed with BT and left to fend for themselves).

    WGLF should also gain a stack from being near a survivor who succesfully wiggles free from the killer's grasp while using the perk Breakout. (Though I could see this adding another paragraph to We're Gonna Live Forever's description and understand why it was left out.)

    Maybe WGLF can start the match with a single stack for solo survivors or award them twice as many stacks...

    Post edited by Nos37 on
  • ALostPuppyALostPuppy Member Posts: 3,398

    It's been suggested ad nauseam, but BHVR will probably never do this because they know just how much the grind means to some, and it's the only reason a lot of people are still playing: they don't want to feel like they're falling behind, so they keep grinding BP to keep up with the ungodly amount of grinding and perks in this game. Hell they keep finding the perfect excuses to keep perk tiers by giving every perk either a range limit or a cooldown.

  • RullisiRullisi Member Posts: 392

    To me it feels like these would have much more value with the old progression. Now you can get so many bloodpoints so fast with added bonus of redeem codes. There are so many items that you can't even use them, rare items aren't rare and common ones are rare. full 3 pip perks are extremely common.

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