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So apparently, Wraith becomes viable and people are already complaining

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  • BeaburdBeaburd Member Posts: 815

    Honestly, I kind of agree.

    I think he's pretty darn strong right now, and even oppressive at times, but to a healthier degree.

    The add-ons are definitely my biggest issue with him. If they changed the all-seeing wall hacks, and MAYBE (uncertain still) the add-ons responsible for altering his uncloaking bell noises, I would be completely satisfied with his current state.

  • VampiroxVampirox Member Posts: 372

    my only complaint is that the buffs are nice, but the silent bell with all seeing he is just to strong now. that is my only beef, other addons he is fine.

  • AVoiceOfReasonAVoiceOfReason Member Posts: 2,469

    I would rate Wraith as high B or almost A if he/she is a good Wraith player and knows their tiles. The main problem with him now is most loops are just super short and he can out lunge them without any issue. Just take out the ######### loops and make them medium and he'll be fine and can still smack the ######### out of you if you play it wrong.

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    I was commenting on this weeks ago before I saw anyone else saying anything about him and was consistently shot down with complaints and the general counterargument that "he was absolutely terrible, the worst character in the game, absolutely useless", etc, etc, etc.

    Now pretty much every day there's a post about how they overcompensated and made him a bit TOO strong but every killer main's argument has changed to "he's only just now become even BARELY decent, he still sucks, he's still M1, he's still easily avoidable, he's still the worst character in the game, he's a stealth character so he's meant to get free hits, you just need to get better, just ensure that there's always a window or pallet next to you and you automatically win, there's nothing wrong with his buff at all because now he's actually capable of getting a kill once every 500 games, survivors complain about everything", on and on and on.

    The hyperbole I hear from the killer side regarding The Wraith isn't even worth arguing with anymore.

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,416
    edited May 2021

    They're pretty much right though (although you exaggerated it a bit too much), there's really no valid counterargument to it at this point (other than all-seeing and silent bell being busted af, and Sloppy Butcher being a poorly designed perk). Once you get better at surv you'll see how mediocre Wraith is compared to others, and even consider him to be the poor man's Spirit.

  • IridescentBloodIridescentBlood Member Posts: 21
    edited May 2021

    I think we need a silent bell and an all seeing nerf or removal. Pretty much all experienced wraiths have it. I've played about 6-8 games in the past 80-ish minutes and about 2/3's of them were wraith and they either had all seeing, silent bell or both. I'm also rank 10 at the moment but those 4+ wraiths were all rank 1 which kind of correlates with the whole experienced wraiths have a lot of those addons.

  • onemindonemind Member Posts: 3,089

    Yeah and if anything were to be nerfed about him probably addons and like a 2or3s delay after cloaking

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    I guess this is just an agree to disagree type of situation. I've noticed that whenever either side makes a complaint the other side often lashes out, and I've noticed that killer mains are extremely protective of the killers they consider "good" and extremely disgusted by the killers they consider "bad". What I know for myself is that, anecdotally, Wraith seemed fine. I saw plenty of people using him. I saw no one complaining about him. Then he gets a buff and suddenly the story is "everyone hated him because he was terrible, now he's only just passable, survivors whine too much. Get better".

    Shrug. Not everyone plays the game to do endless loops, and not everyone looks at things in such a binary fashion. But it seems that when anyone discusses the Wraith, that's the end result. Survivor brings up points that are, at worst, at least worthy of discussion, survivor is ridiculed as being a horrific jerk who wants to steal away the only thing that has supposedly made an awful character in any way playable. It's tired.

  • KerJuiceKerJuice Member Posts: 1,495

    Personally I think giving Wraith more speed was a lazy fix. It doesn’t fit in with his character/play style. I feel like they should have played more to his stealth. His heavy footsteps and snarls should have been removed. The distance thing for his cloak was a good idea, however. His speed add-on for when cloaked should’ve been buffed to what his max speed is now, as a default. Wraith mains never had trouble against the general public before the buff, but I can see SWF’s being a problem for him. I imagine they still are, since some feel like he could have used more of a buff.

  • Harold_ShipmanHarold_Shipman Member Posts: 734

    BING BONG BING BONG

  • nursewannabenursewannabe Member Posts: 1,075
    edited May 2021

    Wraith has always been viable and it was always played like he's played now. He received a couple of buffs so he's not under the radar anymore and he's been played more, so now more people realize he's kinda annoying to go against when they all play the same way (which bear in mind it's the most effective way), but he's always been like this.

    Only difference is he's now not addon dependant anymore, which means with add-ons he's now very strong

  • TicTacTicTac Member Posts: 2,206

    Giving wraith more speed was a simple fix, but it fits his playstyle. They just made his most used addon (purple windstorm) basekit. So the only thing that changed is that people can now run one strong addon more.

    His playstyle was always hit-and-run so the speed increase was neccessary.

  • KerJuiceKerJuice Member Posts: 1,495

    But let’s be honest- because of the speed boost, no one does hit and run any more. Hell, I barely saw it before. Felt like only the top echelon of wraith mains did that. Once they hit you and you gain a speed boost, they just cloak, speed up to catch up to you, then mind game uncloaking followed by a hit. Also, when one thinks Wraith the first word that comes to mind is generally stealth. Now if you were asked about Blight or Billy, it would typically be speed. I just feel like they didn’t put much effort into buffing him properly- like they couldn’t be bothered. You could add speed to any killer and call it a “buff.” If he becomes more popular, I can see him irritating casuals. Me personally, I don’t have fun playing against him. I didn’t even like going up against him before.

  • Rich2015Rich2015 Member Posts: 11
    edited May 2021

    Lets keep buffing killers so the lower ranks suffer and then killers get to ranks where they shouldn't be and then moan about killers not being viable.... when they are at higher ranks than they should be...devs then buff killers again when they moan.....its a vicious circle


    what about the people that are green rank and above? You can't keep buffing killers to cater for high rank gameplay

  • TicTacTicTac Member Posts: 2,206

    Its good that they catch up. Holding w can be so boring. And no wraith was never only a stealth killer. He is clearly outclassed atleast compared to ghostface. A only stealth killer who cant instadown would be just a weaker version of other. So a fast stealth killer is where wraith shines. And this speed is only his old windstorm, so most wraith played like that for years.

  • TicTacTicTac Member Posts: 2,206

    Why should yellow ranks be more important than red ranks? I want to play against killer who have a chance against me. A yellow rank can always gets better (every red rank was obviously a yellow rank in the past), but red ranks cant get worse.

    So while i understand that it can be frustrating its not that easy to fix.

  • KerJuiceKerJuice Member Posts: 1,495

    You know I wouldn’t even say they’re buffing for higher ranks, because killers do fine in solo que red ranks. It’s the 3 & 4 SWF where killers struggle at. I feel like the buffs are to help killers combat that. But it kind of doesn’t matter because in the end, lower ranks get screwed over either way like you said.

  • Jb94Jb94 Member Posts: 208

    I don't like reducing things to sides, but:

    This is an incredibly survivor sided comment. Running around in circles isn't interesting for the killer.

    Any number of survivor perks are 'no you don't get to play the game perks' to a degree that bamboozle doesn't even get close to. Blocking 1 window for a short period of time is no where near as bad as successfully mindgaming a survivor only to have them dead hard out of a well earnt hit and extending the chase indefinitely. Bamboozle isn't even meta lol.

    Hit and run gameplay is generally more rewarding for the killers who can get away with it and it doesn't eliminate the ability to play well on the survivors part.

  • BrokenbonesBrokenbones Member Posts: 3,858
    edited May 2021

    You don't want to reduce things to sides yet you do just that.

    The thread is talking about why people are saying wraith is unfun and why people are complaining, so I gave an anecdote based on my personal experiences as to why that might be.

    Also, I never even said bamboozle was meta, I said it was annoying and not fun to go against when paired with Wraith's mobility and addons and that lots of wraiths are running it (Which they are)

    Actually baffled that you take someone's personal opinion and try to discount it as 'survivor sided comment'.

    I don't see how it's survivor sided to criticise a style of gameplay that I don't find enjoyable.

  • supersonic853supersonic853 Member Posts: 4,256

    To be fair i cant spend 40-50 seconds to down you sorry with how this game works ill lose gens pretty quickly.

  • BrokenbonesBrokenbones Member Posts: 3,858

    Again I didn't at all say the strat wasn't effective or time efficient, that wasn't the point of my post.

    I provided a reason why people think it's frustrating and/or boring. I also mentioned the problem of overexposure where you keep facing the same thing over and over again which in wraith's case applies to me personally given how on some days like 50% of my games are vs a wraith doing the stuff I mentioned previously

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,581

    Wow, i'm glad to see you enjoy facing my boi this much.

    Hope that i can grant you a nice and very thrilling match one day! 😉

  • The_KrapperThe_Krapper Member Posts: 2,393

    Most of these people will find anything to complain about on here I'm not surprised, I don't really notice much of a difference with wraith to be honest

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,467

    Your boi rings his bell too much.

    I can't shake the Bing and thre Bong out of my head now,

    It's stuck in my mind like the Huntress's lullaby...

    Curse you >=I

  • Dennis_van_eijkDennis_van_eijk Member Posts: 1,566

    Come on wraith was never weak, many just didn't know how to play him.

    I never ran windstorm ever and almost all of my games were 3 or 4k as rank 1.

    I got messages saying they had little change and I was always on top of them.

    Others then again reported me of hacking because they didn't win 🤷‍♂️

    If you knew how to play him before his buff than you could do so serious damage, even against some very strong and well coordinated swf.

    But yeah people always find something to complain about, especially when they make a killer or buff one to become more viable.

    Then all of a sudden it is unfun or OP

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