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Wraith the New & Improved Spirit?

MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

I want to preface this post with the fact that I'm not moaning and groaning, nor screaming the Wraith is OP. I'm just having a hard time seeing Wraith as anything other a new and improved Spirit. He moves almost as fast as her, never loses sight of targets, comes out of cloak with a fast, impressive rundown. He literally has all her high mobility benefits and none of her drawbacks. The methods I use to counter him are now pretty much the same as the ones I use against Spirit. I mean, what am I missing?

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Comments

  • Opossum_SupremacyOpossum_Supremacy Member Posts: 34

    In addition to what Illiterate said, it's worth noting that Wraith not having a passive phasing animation makes him easier to read than spirit too. Even while cloaked, his shimmer is fairly visible up close if he's moving. I don't think Wraith is even on the same tier as Spirit in his current state.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    I beg to disagree. I played a lot this weekend and watched Wraiths in Purple and Green tear Red Rank teams apart.

  • A_Skinny_LegendA_Skinny_Legend Member Posts: 877

    He's obviously powerful now. People are just trying to downplay his strength because they don't want him nerfed.

  • A_Skinny_LegendA_Skinny_Legend Member Posts: 877

    He's still powerful, not saying a nerf is warranted but it's so transparent to see that people that enjoy him are downplaying his strength to hopefully avoid a potential nerf.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,917

    People really aren't underplaying him its just the fact he's always been like this and its an issue now?

    I mean wraith has been like this for around two years and people are only complaining about him because he's the current "Flavor of the Month" killer.

    Also please keep the conspiracies theories to yourself as no one is intentionally underplaying him. Heck Wraith's supporters have been trying to tell people he's underrated for a LONG time now.

  • A_Skinny_LegendA_Skinny_Legend Member Posts: 877

    No, I think I'll speak my mind.

    Other killers simply outshined him throughout that time and for whatever reason he's the center of attention now.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    Couple things Moundshroud that make him worse than spirit:

    Spirit leaves no trace in phase - zero audio/visual cues for survivor. Wraith has directional audio and can be seen cloaked moving slower than Spirit too.

    Spirit can swing immediately out of phase. Wraith cannot do this. This gives time for survivors to react. If Wraith wants to camp cloaked, survivors can infinitely window vault. Spirit circumvents this completely because again no audio/visual codes for survivor.

    Here's one advantage that Wraih has over Spirit now since his buff:

    Wraith gets an extra quarter second of sprint coming out of cloak with zero cooldown. He is guaranteed a hit at any unsafe structure now regardless of survivor input because his sprint covers the distance to either side before you can make a vault. This is the reason he is getting a lot of heat lately. He has hit pressure everywhere except safe loops and strong tiles.

    Spirit again circumvents all mechanics at every tile but isn't guaranteed the hit like Wraith now is at unsafe structures.

    Understand shroudy that this is strictly good killer vs. good survivor gameplay. Spirit is far superior in chase.

  • bobateobobateo Member Posts: 257

    The only issue I have with Wraith rn is his lunge length when coming out of cloak. The fact that he can easily body block AND have that lunge radius seems a bit much. There's just too many gens/angles that Wraith can easily block while having angles that he can easily get a hit. Add that with speed add ons and wall hacks? It can be difficult. Granted, I haven't had enough interaction with Wraiths not using addons to get a good idea of what he can do basekit.

  • DistortedDreamDistortedDream Member Posts: 672

    I don't think Wraith is on the same level as Spirit. Wraith has more counters than Spirit and he isn't unpredictable like Spirit is.

  • TicTacTicTac Member Posts: 2,222

    If its not a unsafe pallet its a lot easier to loop a wraith then a spirit. So wraith lacks the one thing that makes spirit strong. She can ignore pallets.

  • BSVbenBSVben Member Posts: 256

    Cmon....

    Spirit at basekit is stronger than Wraith even with his strongest add-ons.

    Don't get me wrong, Wraith is definitely a good killer, but he is ultimately still a loopable M1 killer.

    Spirit ignores most of the looping mechanics with her base power.

  • SteahSteah Member Posts: 511
  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,063

    Wraith is harder to play as than Spirit, because you have to time when you uncloak correctly against a good survivor that knows when to vault windows etc.

  • ShinobuSKShinobuSK Member Posts: 4,603

    I still use windstorm add on when playing him, even with speed buff its not enough for me to zoom around the map.

    He might be a bit better to play, maybe even B tier since he has some strong add ons.

    But he has nothing on Spirit. Nothing

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 20,522

    Wraith has his bing bong.

    Spirit has no animations or sound queues or tell she's using her power at all.

    Wraith moves at 6m/s (150%)

    Spirit can get up to something stupid that's over 200% when using MDR.

    They're not comparable. Spirit is still literally bordering Nurse for the title of best dbd killer. I wouldn't place Wraith above Blight.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    True, but I don't think one should underestimate the value of never losing sight of the quarry. The speed difference, as far as I'm concerned, is nominal because both allow one to cross any map in record time. The Wraith isn't limited by how long he can remained in high speed mode while the Spirit does it in bursts. Right now, perhaps it is due to more practice against the Spirit, I would rather face her than a Wraith any match. I have a far better record as a Survivor against Spirit.

    The Wraith isn't under any kind of pressure, no ticking clock. He simply keeps moving at high speed until his quarry in on lock and moves in. I can deceive and evade (stealth mode) a Spirit, but a good Wraith will find who he is looking for every time. Again, I'm not complaining about Wraith being overpowered, but I just don't see a fundamental difference between the two Killers in how they operate overall. In fact, I think overall the Wraith will be more consistent. I'll be interested in seeing the metrics in a few months.

  • BSVbenBSVben Member Posts: 256

    Even if you disregard the superior lethality of spirits power, wraith is literally hard countered by flashlights, windows and your ears. He's not even truly invisible.....

  • HaddixHaddix Member Posts: 902
    edited June 2021

    the post stealth lunge is 100% changed. having played wraith frequently before and after the buff, there is a very significant difference in what you can do with the lunge.

    being invisible from range is a huge benefit

    and having windstorm basekit is huge for running other addons.

    you are correct, the old windstorm addons actually had no downside despite one being listed, but old wraith, with addons, was NOT better than current wraith. current wraith's lunge and ranged invisibility was massive for him, and the fact that he can run other strong addon combos without windstorm makes him even better. that slight uncloak speed nerf that they gave him literally means nothing dude.

  • BloodshadeBloodshade Member Posts: 3,203
    edited June 2021

    shroudy

    the hell

    anyway, not really (@ the OP). he makes unsafe places even less safe now. shack you still have to play as a normal M1 killer, long walls, any god windows, etc...if you get asylum have fun dealing with the main building. you'll see the difference then.

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    They aren't even close. Wraiths counter is predropping weak pallets so that he can't take control (same as agasint Pig) and otherwise playing normally. Spirit doesn't have a counter because you cannot tell what she is ever doing and she moves much faster than wraith.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    Hrm. You all have spoken, and I am clearly in the minority here. I don't really see any difference in application. I will defer to the majority opinion then. I'm still going to be very interested in seeing the metrics in a few months.

  • WeirdlyBeardedWeirdlyBearded Member Posts: 144

    It's strange to me. I see so many people that say spirit has no counters. This isn't true. She has a visual cue when she goes invisible. Her husk is left behind. When i see that i move slightly out of the way and sneak. Works for me more times then not. *shrugs*

  • BloodshadeBloodshade Member Posts: 3,203
    edited June 2021

    this is always the same retort that gets brought up and it's always so funny to me. there are plenty of outfits that obscure her shards and even in the case that you try to stealth, a good spirit is going to hear you anyway or otherwise use her power and short bursts to kill you.

    if you're that close to the spirit then chances are you're already dead.

    E: actually you didn't even mention the shards, you only mentioned the husk. lmfao. the husk is a terrible indicator of whether she's phasing or not, as she could actually just be standing there and waiting to see what you do.

  • WeirdlyBeardedWeirdlyBearded Member Posts: 144

    Well it works for me even against red ranked spirits. So no what I'm doing isn't terrible. Because it's working. I haven't begun to see what perks would also help me yet. I haven't needed extra help from perks so far. Just because something dosen't work for you dosen't justify dismissing it. Learn, adapt, grow.

  • BloodshadeBloodshade Member Posts: 3,203

    most red ranks are potatoes (arguably including myself) so meh. that doesn't make it a valid tactic against good players.

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