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Freddy's nerfs were misguided

YordsYords Member Posts: 5,771
edited June 2021 in General Discussions

Yes I know I am late to this.

Freddy has hardly changed after his nerf, it didn't fix what people did not like about him:

Over the last few games, I have been playing Freddy. And he plays literally the exact same as before. You still just put a snare here and put a snare there and boom, that's it. His gameplay is still the same. He isn't that fun to play as or against, and it takes almost no skill to gain the reward he gets.

He is still a strong killer, don't get me wrong, but the nerfs might as well have done nothing. The only real nerfs were to his slowdown addons and his black box.

Quick question, why was the black box addon nerfed? It is worthless now and I really don't understand why this one was nerfed. It is fitting for an ultra rare, but it was gutted, why?

Anyway, Freddy is still the same as before, just ever so slightly weaker. Here is his gameplay: You get into a chase with a sleeping survivor, you put a snare down are the apex of a loop and get a hit if the survivor decides to greed the pallet; repeat. Or you get into a chase with a sleeping survivor, you put a snare at the apex of the loop, they drop it early; repeat. This isn't very fun, the counterplay to him nor actually playing him.

Compare this to a killer like Huntress. If she is chasing you around a long wall jungle gym for example, you have to watch her and try to bait out a throw and then run away. It is much more fun and interactive besides latency screwing both sides over at times of course. But with Freddy you just play really safe when asleep.


Why people dislike Freddy, and why they still do:

People disliked Freddy because his chases are boring, due to his snares, and because he gets his power ready by just existing.

His nerf addressed none of this nor changed any of it to correspond with the skill of the Freddy player. He is just so boring to play as and against. Why is he still the same? Because he was getting slight nerfs, not full on changes or another smaller rework.

Like I said before he even got nerfs, I said it would not fix what people don't like about him. And they STILL went through because a lot of people thought he was "too strong".

I remember old Freddy, and even he was more fun than current Freddy because it was cool to play him, and his gameplay was unique. Now, not so much.

However the one good thing the Freddy rework originally came with was the dream projection ability. While it is still gotten for free, the actual ability itself is great and a good way to have one part of his power for mobility but not like other mobile killers. It is unique and it should stay if Freddy gets changed again.


What he needs:

Freddy needs changes that add skill to his power in somehow, right now he gets use of his teleport and snares for free because survivors fall asleep passively. His snares should also be changed to take more skill rather than spamming them at loops, and yes he can still do that, the nerfs like I said did almost nothing.

Feel free to share your thoughts on if you agree with me or not, maybe even come up with a few concepts for how his snares could work differently.

TL;DR: Freddy's nerfs did not change what people disliked about him at all, he is still a very boring killer.


Comments

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,771

    So basically old Freddy but updated a bit? I honestly feel that this isn't what he needs. His dream projection could easily be used to hold 3 gen scenarios as good as doctor, maybe even better and the dream transition would just really hurt him, it is why Freddy was so weak before. I think the devs should just change how his snares work so that they are more complex and interesting in game.

  • GeneralVGeneralV Member Posts: 7,877

    I don't think so, my friend. The Dream Transition never hurt him, what did hurt him was his inability to prevent survivors from finishing things right in his face, which would not happen here thanks to the Incapacitated status effect.

    Also, I don't see a probably with the Dream Projection being used to hold a 3 gen. Such scenario is the survivor's fault after all.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 7,129
    edited June 2021

    He's just fine IMO. There's plenty of counter play to him. Good survivors deal with him just fine. B-Tier ish. A good freddy user can make him a low A-Tier with things going correctly.

    His powers all together actually do take skill to use to a high level. Especially his teleport.

    If anything I think he needs a "buff" in the form of his add ons actually doing anything to make his powers interesting for the user. Instead of stupid sound add ons

  • DustinDustin Member Posts: 1,769
    edited June 2021

    I agree with you - The changes they made wouldn't do anything in terms to how Freddy performs or how players feel about him.

    Personally I've been saying Freddy's snares should be turned into a skillshot similar to Pyramid Head's skillshot but it just slows and potentially sleeps a target. Would make Freddy more engaging overall and he'd still have unique elements to his kit. I'd even say he should have the skillshot + pallets at the same time with the skillshot using a chunk of his meter for teleporting. That way if Freddy spams it to end a chase he just can't immediately be on the other side of the map.

    to tl;dr

    Freddy should have a skillshot + Pallets + Teleport + Keep the passive sleep + The clocks should grant longer immunity because if you're out of a chase with Freddy and able to use them likely you won't even see him for those thirty seconds.

    Pallets can only be placed an extremely limited amount of times (Twice without addons) and Freddy's teleport and skillshot would share the same energy bar. Freddy would be more fun and engaging this way imo. At least rather than the current form.

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,416
    edited June 2021

    I think the best (and easiest) way to fix Freddy is to bring back old Freddy with QoL changes, Dream Projection (as @GeneralV stated), and maybe Alarm Clocks. Anyways this is well written and demonstrates the main issues with current Freddy, and how obsolete his nerfs were (other than making the clocks more useful).

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    Freddy right now is extreamly weak if we compare pre nerf he is in the C tier. Hr can tp every minute after 1 minute in the match this is available only on gen that mean unless a survivor run toward a gen no way you can use that in a chase. You can say he still have the blood pool let me remind you now he is slow when he use them and the slow is huge for what that give dont forget if the survivor is awake they cant get slow. Now i know you will say but survivor get pull in the dream state every minute that still 1 minute were freddy power cant affect you and if you take an alarm clock you cant fall asleep for 30 sec whatdver the reason and you still have another 60 sec before you are asleep again that a lot of time were you are immune to freddy power. Right now its better to play demo over freddy demo got a better power the portal are better and he have better addon so why play freddy

  • DustinDustin Member Posts: 1,769

    The teleporting is the only thing that keeps Freddy relevant tbh in comparison to other killers around his tier. If people really got BHVR to revert back to old Freddy for example even with numerical buffs he would still be hot garbage. No map pressure and no way to end a chase quicker. Basically just a much worse Wraith who can potentially get a free surprise hit first time around. We know old Freddy isn't coming back because BHVR doesn't want the gen slowdown build to return and tbh neither do I.

    I still say reworking Snares specifically is the way to go but he's still fine for now.

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,397
    edited June 2021

    I agree that freddy should be changed, but I do like some current parts of his kit but I think abilities like snares should be forced to be used more sparingly or have some kind of resource management built into it, but it should build that on top of the old system he used to have that way with it its plenty of buffs nerfs and changes would be made and still gives back old freddy to those who loved it and keeps new mechanics for those who also love those hopefully the best of both worlds and yes it is quite the read

    so here is my take

    Power: Dream Demon

    Pull survivors into the Dream World

    -Has a 24 meter lullaby to awake survivors

    -Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare and cannot be damaged by him.

    -Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.

    -Removed old movement speed penalty but kept alarm clocks to compensate (removed the invincibility from being put to sleep activated by using an alarm clock from the recent update and removed microsleep alarm clocks now take 4 seconds (Idk what they were before but attack cooldown is 3 seconds so no abusing them))

    -During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittenedly and the Nightmares Dream meter Charges 33% faster per transitioning survivor for the duration that they are transitioning basically a free 2.33 seconds or 5% of your power for putting a survivor to sleep

    -When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.

    Once in the Dream World:

    -Freddy has a 24 meter (locked at 24 and cannot be modified by perks but is still affected by the undetectable effect) terror radius, survivors outside this radius for 5 seconds have their auras revealed to the nightmare

    -To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action (keep inefficiency from repeated wake ups on the same survivor, survivors who are transitioning cannot preform the wake up action) or go to an alarm clock (any) but when you get put to sleep the furthest alarm clock is revealed to you

    -Failed generator and altruistic healing skill checks wake up survivors but cause an additional 5% regression on the progress of the task and take 3 seconds before the survivor/s is woken up (no more point blank missing skill checks to be safe)

    -Hooked Survivors wake up

    Special Ability: Dream Power

    Dream Power is a 45 second meter that fills up 5% faster (additive) for each sleeping survivor and fills up 33% faster (additive) while a survivor is entering the dream transition, this meter can be used for the following effects

    33% of the meter can be consumed to place a dream snare or dream pallet (can use both no longer addon dependent and no longer have limits dream snares and dream pallets can now be disarmed while awake but return 50% of the power used to place them (gives Freddy a 3 second warning before the power is returned so he can plan and use it accordingly removed limit on traps the only limiting factor is time)

    66% of the meter can be consumed to teleport to a generator you are looking at

    100% of the meter can be consumed to set all survivors in your lullaby to sleep in 3 seconds (you channel for those 3 seconds and move about as slow as doctor static blast speed)

    *still starts the game empty

    Overall changes

    reimplemented dream transition

    Survivors don't have an action speed penalty while asleep alternative methods of waking up are still available to keep with modern design

    Removed lullaby while asleep and oblivious effect that way survivors can still have a tell where and when he is but gave him more information and a slightly smaller (but not modifiable) base terror radius to compensate

    Made his power a resource that can be used for multiple effects so hopefully there is a more skillful element in balancing the usage of your power while still having strong effects at your disposal

    Post edited by bjorksnas on
  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    He need a complete addon rework in my opinion. Even before the nerf the only good addon were the chain that why most of the freddy run them.

  • Toblerone007Toblerone007 Member Posts: 598

    @Yords You say place snare one side and the other and run the survivor into it. The survivor gains distance if they sidestep the loop and run somewhere else. You couldn't do this before.

    Once the traps are set, his gameplay is exactly the same yes. I think the nerf just hurts the killer players that couldn't macro preplacing snares and only place snares when chasing without any consequence.

  • nursewannabenursewannabe Member Posts: 1,075

    When the addon pass was announced i wanted to make a thread saying the same thing, but honestly it was too much work for something that won't be touched again

    I completely agree with you btw, this is why I just call it an addon pass, Freddy is completely unchanged

  • gibblywibblywoogibblywibblywoo Member Posts: 3,773
    edited June 2021

    While I would like Freddy to have a higher skill ceiling, I don't actively feel awful for playing him now.

    I've actually been enjoying him because now I can't just place a snare at every loop pre chase for free hits/pallet drops. And the removal of the slowdown perks, while not super strong on their own, makes his perk synergy less oppressive.

    He's still pretty braindead though.

    Chase to loop, place snare at mid point of loop and chase survivor back into it for free hit or pallet, repeat all game.

    I also like that they've actually incentivised waking up now, a good survivor with an alarm clock buff is really dangerous for Freddo.

  • Northener1907Northener1907 Member Posts: 3,012

    I love old Freddy but i know he will not come back.


    And Freddy already nerfed so hard. I am Freddy main and i felt it. Snares did not effected me so much because i am not spamming then, usually i am using 3 - 4 snares per match.


    But pallets? Pallets are effective but you have to use them before chase. I think pallets nerfed unfairly. You have to put so much fake pallets and then survivors will confuse and they will not trust any pallet. And they will use all pallets early. And when you use any windows blocker perk with that build, games were so fun and mindgames were working so good. But sadly pallets lost numbers.


    And Freddy lost so good add-ons and him new add-ons are useless. He is still surviving because of teleport power. Snares and pallets lost numbers and i do not think they will nerf they again. Because nerf them again will kill. Freddy already losing fast when use them. So what can they do for that?


    Another nerf? Imposible. Freddy has to chance too. Maybe keep him teleport power and rework for snares. Trapper and Hag putting traps before chase, so maybe rework snares like that. Make Freddy put them before chase. But with that change Freddy has to see snare auras and also snares will need little buff. Because Hag and Trapper have strong traps, so putting them before chase and using them tactical understandable. If they kill spam snares and make that for Freddy, snares has to be stronger or just change Freddy powers.

  • Rokku_RorruRokku_Rorru Member Posts: 451

    I honestly think his rework was misguided, they reworked doctor to move him away from a passive toolkit (insanity inflicts on its own) then they give Freddy the exact same thing, minus the need of a terror radius or even needing to interact with said survivor, ontop of that there was issues like undetectable giving him a free pass to just tunnel without penalty.


    Freddy needs more ways to interact with survivors, I think he should not be able to run and snare with zero drawback, and slowdown freddy was an awful idea too. His stats spoke for themself he was over performing (going off of the anniversary broadcast from 2020) I'm pretty sure.


    I don't think nerfing him is the answer, but I don't think reverting it is either, he deserved a rework more befitting of the current state of the game.

  • FreddysMainFreddysMain Member Posts: 286

    Depends on how long someone has played as Freddy, who you are up against.

    Also need to think about the perks people are using.

    Some use a strong build and others do not like me.

    I think people are just starting to get better at killers the more you play DBD the game is always a learning process. there is always something to learn from survivors or killers and people remember that so then people bring that into games and they can ever be good or bad.

    both survivor and killers have an objective and sometimes we lose or win.

    in fact if i pip in a game i class that as a win, even if i die on hook or i just get one kill or two.


    I do not have a problem with Freddy playing as him and going against i have 300 hours with the game I play survivor and killer, i am rank 4 killer and do not use a strong build but as survivor i am rank 7-8 and i do use a somewhat strong build.

    But i am still learning and when i get put against a Freddy it is fun, one i am learning to mind game him and 2 trying to get better both playing as him as well and playing against him.

    you are either going to get good games or bad.

    This is how the game works i do not think Freddy needs to be changed in any way. there are far more powerful killers than Poor Mr Freddo <3

  • MdawguMdawgu Member Posts: 408

    Only thing I dislike about Freddy is his perk synergy.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,674

    Honestly, current Freddy is a bit nicer to play against. There is actually a reason for you to run to another loop if he places a trap, rather than him just faking a trap.

    It's not much, but its nice.


    I rather see old Freddy back though, just alter him a tiny bit. No more traps, no more pallets, just give him the ability to m1 survivors who arent asleep and the ability to teleport to gens with m2. Then he's a solid killer.

  • CakeDutyCakeDuty Member Posts: 915

    I totally agree with you, sure the slowdown addons got removed but his boring gameplay is basically the same and it's still not fun to go against and he's still super strong.

    Also the 30 seconds of sleep immunity from alarm clocks is a really weird change. Like, unless you're healthy and go for a clock mid chase, I guess it's useful? Seems like such a random change, make it the full 90 seconds if anything.

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