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Rework legion

lordhelioslordhelios Member Posts: 63
edited December 2018 in 2.4.0 PTB

His power is identical to spirit, so why even play him? So I thought of a new power set for him:

pressing m2 changes his form and stance into one of his 4 forms.

First form is the power form, Frank the main body of the team of teenagers. His stats in this form are lower than all the other forms like what we have now, but when he strikes his target he can apply deep wounds. While deeps wounds is applied a survivor they can’t heal back to health but they won’t go down from it. In this state they need a second survivor to clear the deep wounds and return the survivor to full health, similar to mangled but it won’t slow healing.

His second form is the girl Julie, she is faster than all the other personas but can’t apply the deep wounds stat. She can vault pallets (like frenzy)

3 third form is joey he has the highest lunge range and can vault windows fastest (like frenzy) and he is slightly faster than frank but can’t apply deep wounds.

Final form is susie she has the lowest terror radius and her stain is invisible but has the lowest speed of 105% similar to tier 1 Myers.

I feel like this form power might be similar to Michael Myers but atleast it is different in the fact that it’s a controlled power and it’s not based on tiering up or anything. I think this new power structure will set them apart from other killers and will make it seem like we are fighting a legion of killers.

Comments

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    @lordhelios said:
    His power is identical to spirit, so why even play him? So I thought of a new power set for him:

    pressing m2 changes his form and stance into one of his 4 forms.

    First form is the power form, Frank the main body of the team of teenagers. His stats in this form are lower than all the other forms like what we have now, but when he strikes his target he can apply deep wounds. While deeps wounds is applied a survivor they can’t heal back to health but they won’t go down from it. In this state they need a second survivor to clear the deep wounds and return the survivor to full health, similar to mangled but it won’t slow healing.

    His second form is the girl Julie, she is faster than all the other personas but can’t apply the deep wounds stat. She can vault pallets (like frenzy)

    3 third form is joey he has the highest lunge range and can vault windows fastest (like frenzy) and he is slightly faster than frank but can’t apply deep wounds.

    Final form is susie she has the lowest terror radius and her stain is invisible but has the lowest speed of 105% similar to tier 1 Myers.

    I feel like this form power might be similar to Michael Myers but atleast it is different in the fact that it’s a controlled power and it’s not based on tiering up or anything. I think this new power structure will set them apart from other killers and will make it seem like we are fighting a legion of killers.

    I had something similar in mind in regards to a rework, which most certainly think the power should be, because you're right, the legions current power is nothing more than a blatant rehashed reuse of the spirits power with a few additions and alterations. I like what you're suggesting and believe that they would work well, though some tweaks are in order, including the deep wound mechanics as it's currently no threat to most of the victims.

    First, the deep wound timer should not be paused during a chase and neither should it while being mended (no matter if by self or others), it should however be slow while being chased or being mended, unless certain exceptions happen. Furthermore, mending should be considered a healing action, so that perks that synergizes or is triggered by a healing action, works with it.

    Deep wound should be a constant threat once applied, which until mended could trigger a skill check at any time, even while running, which if failed it will cause the timer to significantly pick up speed for a short amount of time, where during this time the survivor is slowed by 10% (to 3.6m/s) and cannot do any other interaction than self-mending, which means that the victim can still move but won't for instance be able to work on a generator or mend/heal someone else. This will allow for situations to happen irregardless of the legions current form or situation.

    I think the various forms should have different speeds, for very good reasons.
    Frank should be the slowest as he is the most powerful and deadly of them - 4.2m/s - 105%
    Julie being the agile and nimble - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Joey isn't really as fast as he's a showoff - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Susie is the fast one but also the non-violent - 4.5m/s - 112.5%

    Frank can apply the deep wound, has the longest lunges of them - can lunge over pallets and through windows, and has killer instinct.
    Julie can fast vault over both pallets and through windows (as frenzy)- cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Joey can vandalize - cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Susie being the most non-violent, she cannot attack at all - terror radius being almost nonexistent in this form - 8 meters. In this form the legion can sprint (as frenzy) increases movement speed for the duration of the frenzy to 4.8m/s - 120%. The main attack in this form is replaced with a strip/grab item ability that works similar to Frank's demise. This form doesn't have killer instinct.

    Vandalize:
    Can do two things.
    1 - Can bring down a pallet.
    2 - Can make lockers unusable for a longer duration.

  • lordhelioslordhelios Member Posts: 63
    edited December 2018

    @Incarnate said:

    @lordhelios said:
    His power is identical to spirit, so why even play him? So I thought of a new power set for him:

    pressing m2 changes his form and stance into one of his 4 forms.

    First form is the power form, Frank the main body of the team of teenagers. His stats in this form are lower than all the other forms like what we have now, but when he strikes his target he can apply deep wounds. While deeps wounds is applied a survivor they can’t heal back to health but they won’t go down from it. In this state they need a second survivor to clear the deep wounds and return the survivor to full health, similar to mangled but it won’t slow healing.

    His second form is the girl Julie, she is faster than all the other personas but can’t apply the deep wounds stat. She can vault pallets (like frenzy)

    3 third form is joey he has the highest lunge range and can vault windows fastest (like frenzy) and he is slightly faster than frank but can’t apply deep wounds.

    Final form is susie she has the lowest terror radius and her stain is invisible but has the lowest speed of 105% similar to tier 1 Myers.

    I feel like this form power might be similar to Michael Myers but atleast it is different in the fact that it’s a controlled power and it’s not based on tiering up or anything. I think this new power structure will set them apart from other killers and will make it seem like we are fighting a legion of killers.

    I had something similar in mind in regards to a rework, which most certainly think the power should be, because you're right, the legions current power is nothing more than a blatant rehashed reuse of the spirits power with a few additions and alterations. I like what you're suggesting and believe that they would work well, though some tweaks are in order, including the deep wound mechanics as it's currently no threat to most of the victims.

    First, the deep wound timer should not be paused during a chase and neither should it while being mended (no matter if by self or others), it should however be slow while being chased or being mended, unless certain exceptions happen. Furthermore, mending should be considered a healing action, so that perks that synergizes or is triggered by a healing action, works with it.

    Deep wound should be a constant threat once applied, which until mended could trigger a skill check at any time, even while running, which if failed it will cause the timer to significantly pick up speed for a short amount of time, where during this time the survivor is slowed by 10% (to 3.6m/s) and cannot do any other interaction than self-mending, which means that the victim can still move but won't for instance be able to work on a generator or mend/heal someone else. This will allow for situations to happen irregardless of the legions current form or situation.

    I think the various forms should have different speeds, for very good reasons.
    Frank should be the slowest as he is the most powerful and deadly of them - 4.2m/s - 105%
    Julie being the agile and nimble - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Joey isn't really as fast as he's a showoff - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Susie is the fast one but also the non-violent - 4.5m/s - 112.5%

    Frank can apply the deep wound, has the longest lunges of them - can lunge over pallets and through windows, and has killer instinct.
    Julie can fast vault over both pallets and through windows (as frenzy)- cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Joey can vandalize - cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Susie being the most non-violent, she cannot attack at all - terror radius being almost nonexistent in this form - 8 meters. In this form the legion can sprint (as frenzy) increases movement speed for the duration of the frenzy to 4.8m/s - 120%. The main attack in this form is replaced with a strip/grab item ability that works similar to Frank's demise. This form doesn't have killer instinct.

    Vandalize:
    Can do two things.
    1 - Can bring down a pallet.
    2 - Can make lockers unusable for a longer duration.

    very nice, the only thing i disagree with is adding vandalism considering deep wounds is already a new status effect. Also i feel separating vaulting and pallet jumping is better in giving legion a reason to swap roles so i came up with joey being as slightly faster than frank with better lunge and vaulting speed while julie being the fastest one can vault pallets (speed 120%) we could add that if you hit as julie it puts her speed at 115% temporarily for (undetermined cooldown).

    edit: I also want to add, that's why susie is slow but silent, her being kinda fast is a bit strong and she should mostly be sneaky like the pig, and the shape.

  • lordhelioslordhelios Member Posts: 63

    @lordhelios said:

    @Incarnate said:

    @lordhelios said:
    His power is identical to spirit, so why even play him? So I thought of a new power set for him:

    pressing m2 changes his form and stance into one of his 4 forms.

    First form is the power form, Frank the main body of the team of teenagers. His stats in this form are lower than all the other forms like what we have now, but when he strikes his target he can apply deep wounds. While deeps wounds is applied a survivor they can’t heal back to health but they won’t go down from it. In this state they need a second survivor to clear the deep wounds and return the survivor to full health, similar to mangled but it won’t slow healing.

    His second form is the girl Julie, she is faster than all the other personas but can’t apply the deep wounds stat. She can vault pallets (like frenzy)

    3 third form is joey he has the highest lunge range and can vault windows fastest (like frenzy) and he is slightly faster than frank but can’t apply deep wounds.

    Final form is susie she has the lowest terror radius and her stain is invisible but has the lowest speed of 105% similar to tier 1 Myers.

    I feel like this form power might be similar to Michael Myers but atleast it is different in the fact that it’s a controlled power and it’s not based on tiering up or anything. I think this new power structure will set them apart from other killers and will make it seem like we are fighting a legion of killers.

    I had something similar in mind in regards to a rework, which most certainly think the power should be, because you're right, the legions current power is nothing more than a blatant rehashed reuse of the spirits power with a few additions and alterations. I like what you're suggesting and believe that they would work well, though some tweaks are in order, including the deep wound mechanics as it's currently no threat to most of the victims.

    First, the deep wound timer should not be paused during a chase and neither should it while being mended (no matter if by self or others), it should however be slow while being chased or being mended, unless certain exceptions happen. Furthermore, mending should be considered a healing action, so that perks that synergizes or is triggered by a healing action, works with it.

    Deep wound should be a constant threat once applied, which until mended could trigger a skill check at any time, even while running, which if failed it will cause the timer to significantly pick up speed for a short amount of time, where during this time the survivor is slowed by 10% (to 3.6m/s) and cannot do any other interaction than self-mending, which means that the victim can still move but won't for instance be able to work on a generator or mend/heal someone else. This will allow for situations to happen irregardless of the legions current form or situation.

    I think the various forms should have different speeds, for very good reasons.
    Frank should be the slowest as he is the most powerful and deadly of them - 4.2m/s - 105%
    Julie being the agile and nimble - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Joey isn't really as fast as he's a showoff - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Susie is the fast one but also the non-violent - 4.5m/s - 112.5%

    Frank can apply the deep wound, has the longest lunges of them - can lunge over pallets and through windows, and has killer instinct.
    Julie can fast vault over both pallets and through windows (as frenzy)- cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Joey can vandalize - cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Susie being the most non-violent, she cannot attack at all - terror radius being almost nonexistent in this form - 8 meters. In this form the legion can sprint (as frenzy) increases movement speed for the duration of the frenzy to 4.8m/s - 120%. The main attack in this form is replaced with a strip/grab item ability that works similar to Frank's demise. This form doesn't have killer instinct.

    Vandalize:
    Can do two things.
    1 - Can bring down a pallet.
    2 - Can make lockers unusable for a longer duration.

    very nice, the only thing i disagree with is adding vandalism considering deep wounds is already a new status effect. Also i feel separating vaulting and pallet jumping is better in giving legion a reason to swap roles so i came up with joey being as slightly faster than frank with better lunge and vaulting speed while julie being the fastest one can vault pallets (speed 120%) we could add that if you hit as julie it puts her speed at 115% temporarily for (undetermined cooldown).

    I also want to add, that's why susie is slow but silent, her being kinda fast is a bit strong and she should mostly be sneaky like the pig, and the shape.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    @lordhelios said:

    @Incarnate said:

    @lordhelios said:
    His power is identical to spirit, so why even play him? So I thought of a new power set for him:

    pressing m2 changes his form and stance into one of his 4 forms.

    First form is the power form, Frank the main body of the team of teenagers. His stats in this form are lower than all the other forms like what we have now, but when he strikes his target he can apply deep wounds. While deeps wounds is applied a survivor they can’t heal back to health but they won’t go down from it. In this state they need a second survivor to clear the deep wounds and return the survivor to full health, similar to mangled but it won’t slow healing.

    His second form is the girl Julie, she is faster than all the other personas but can’t apply the deep wounds stat. She can vault pallets (like frenzy)

    3 third form is joey he has the highest lunge range and can vault windows fastest (like frenzy) and he is slightly faster than frank but can’t apply deep wounds.

    Final form is susie she has the lowest terror radius and her stain is invisible but has the lowest speed of 105% similar to tier 1 Myers.

    I feel like this form power might be similar to Michael Myers but atleast it is different in the fact that it’s a controlled power and it’s not based on tiering up or anything. I think this new power structure will set them apart from other killers and will make it seem like we are fighting a legion of killers.

    I had something similar in mind in regards to a rework, which most certainly think the power should be, because you're right, the legions current power is nothing more than a blatant rehashed reuse of the spirits power with a few additions and alterations. I like what you're suggesting and believe that they would work well, though some tweaks are in order, including the deep wound mechanics as it's currently no threat to most of the victims.

    First, the deep wound timer should not be paused during a chase and neither should it while being mended (no matter if by self or others), it should however be slow while being chased or being mended, unless certain exceptions happen. Furthermore, mending should be considered a healing action, so that perks that synergizes or is triggered by a healing action, works with it.

    Deep wound should be a constant threat once applied, which until mended could trigger a skill check at any time, even while running, which if failed it will cause the timer to significantly pick up speed for a short amount of time, where during this time the survivor is slowed by 10% (to 3.6m/s) and cannot do any other interaction than self-mending, which means that the victim can still move but won't for instance be able to work on a generator or mend/heal someone else. This will allow for situations to happen irregardless of the legions current form or situation.

    I think the various forms should have different speeds, for very good reasons.
    Frank should be the slowest as he is the most powerful and deadly of them - 4.2m/s - 105%
    Julie being the agile and nimble - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Joey isn't really as fast as he's a showoff - 4.4m/s - 110%
    Susie is the fast one but also the non-violent - 4.5m/s - 112.5%

    Frank can apply the deep wound, has the longest lunges of them - can lunge over pallets and through windows, and has killer instinct.
    Julie can fast vault over both pallets and through windows (as frenzy)- cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Joey can vandalize - cannot apply the deep wound but does have killer instinct.
    Susie being the most non-violent, she cannot attack at all - terror radius being almost nonexistent in this form - 8 meters. In this form the legion can sprint (as frenzy) increases movement speed for the duration of the frenzy to 4.8m/s - 120%. The main attack in this form is replaced with a strip/grab item ability that works similar to Frank's demise. This form doesn't have killer instinct.

    Vandalize:
    Can do two things.
    1 - Can bring down a pallet.
    2 - Can make lockers unusable for a longer duration.

    very nice, the only thing i disagree with is adding vandalism considering deep wounds is already a new status effect. Also i feel separating vaulting and pallet jumping is better in giving legion a reason to swap roles so i came up with joey being as slightly faster than frank with better lunge and vaulting speed while julie being the fastest one can vault pallets (speed 120%) we could add that if you hit as julie it puts her speed at 115% temporarily for (undetermined cooldown).

    I also want to add, that's why susie is slow but silent, her being kinda fast is a bit strong and she should mostly be sneaky like the pig, and the shape.

    Yes, but notice that the Susie form can't attack - this form would be the one that would allow the legion to apply a lot more map pressure, and with the small terror radius it will allow the legion to make surprise attacks.

    What do you think specifically of the deep wound mechanic suggestion? 
  • lordhelioslordhelios Member Posts: 63
    edited December 2018

    Well, if we go with lore Susie does end up stabbing the cleaner too, so non violent is true because it took convincing, but due to the fact she can be violent is the reason I bring her in line with t1 Michael.

    Also in my main post I actually do talk about changing deep wounds where it’s a counter to self heal items and perks. It should be a status effect that is hard to remove and makes healing harder to do. This change will help in making deep wounds a horrible status effect that needs to be removed or suffer the through the whole game permanently wounded, but you need to find an ally first.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    @lordhelios said:
    Well, if we go with lore Susie does end up stabbing the cleaner too, so non violent is true because it took convincing, but due to the fact she can be violent is the reason I bring her in line with t1 Michael.

    Actually, her hand was forced by Frank, the cleaner was stabbed by the knife put in her hand but not by her action, it may be she held the knife when it was stabbed into the cleaner, but it wasn't by her action, that was by Franks action. This is the main reason why I view her as non-violent, because she did not want to hurt or kill the cleaner, and she did not as it was the action of Frank. That doesn't mean she couldn't be changed through actions, but the story doesn't portray her as such.

    @lordhelios said:
    Also in my main post I actually do talk about changing deep wounds where it’s a counter to self heal items and perks. It should be a status effect that is hard to remove and makes healing harder to do. This change will help in making deep wounds a horrible status effect that needs to be removed or suffer the through the whole game permanently wounded, but you need to find an ally first.

    Yes, but there is a problem with needing one to mend you, because guess what happens when there is only one victim left or the rest have been slugged so there is only one standing with the deep wound. Therein lies the problem with needing someone else to mend the deep wound. With what I suggested, it becomes a much more dire threat, because not only can it down one if not mended, but can potentially hit during a chase so that the legion can catch up WITHOUT having to frenzy, but it can also hit in an already pressured situation, like when one is dire need of mending where that short moment of inability to interact can lead to a victim going down. Also making it count as a healing action means that for instance botany knowledge bonuses apply, but so does Nurses Calling, and by also having skill checks it can now be affected by anything that would affect skill checks. Where that now opens up a lot of possibilities with regards to making the deep wound possibly more severe to deal with. As mentioned, it could trigger during a chase, not only will it be more difficult to successfully hit the check, but for instance with Unnerving Presence and maybe Huntress' Lulaby, now it would be possible to have very difficult skill checks trigger during a chase WITHOUT even a warning.

    Furthermore, I think it's important to also add to the deep wound mechanic, that the status remains until healed back to full health, where the deep wound could still trigger skill checks, where if failed the deep wound will re-activate where it left off, and would also trigger the slowdown and the inability to interact for that short moment.

    I think what I suggested would make the deep wound much more of threat, and it would allow the legion to apply more passive map pressure the more has been hit with the deep wound and hasn't had the deep wound removed.

  • lordhelioslordhelios Member Posts: 63

    @lordhelios said:
    Also in my main post I actually do talk about changing deep wounds where it’s a counter to self heal items and perks. It should be a status effect that is hard to remove and makes healing harder to do. This change will help in making deep wounds a horrible status effect that needs to be removed or suffer the through the whole game permanently wounded, but you need to find an ally first.

    Yes, but there is a problem with needing one to mend you, because guess what happens when there is only one victim left or the rest have been slugged so there is only one standing with the deep wound. Therein lies the problem with needing someone else to mend the deep wound. With what I suggested, it becomes a much more dire threat, because not only can it down one if not mended, but can potentially hit during a chase so that the legion can catch up WITHOUT having to frenzy, but it can also hit in an already pressured situation, like when one is dire need of mending where that short moment of inability to interact can lead to a victim going down. Also making it count as a healing action means that for instance botany knowledge bonuses apply, but so does Nurses Calling, and by also having skill checks it can now be affected by anything that would affect skill checks. Where that now opens up a lot of possibilities with regards to making the deep wound possibly more severe to deal with. As mentioned, it could trigger during a chase, not only will it be more difficult to successfully hit the check, but for instance with Unnerving Presence and maybe Huntress' Lulaby, now it would be possible to have very difficult skill checks trigger during a chase WITHOUT even a warning.

    Furthermore, I think it's important to also add to the deep wound mechanic, that the status remains until healed back to full health, where the deep wound could still trigger skill checks, where if failed the deep wound will re-activate where it left off, and would also trigger the slowdown and the inability to interact for that short moment.

    I think what I suggested would make the deep wound much more of threat, and it would allow the legion to apply more passive map pressure the more has been hit with the deep wound and hasn't had the deep wound removed.

    This actually sounds good

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    @lordhelios said:

    @lordhelios said:
    Also in my main post I actually do talk about changing deep wounds where it’s a counter to self heal items and perks. It should be a status effect that is hard to remove and makes healing harder to do. This change will help in making deep wounds a horrible status effect that needs to be removed or suffer the through the whole game permanently wounded, but you need to find an ally first.

    Yes, but there is a problem with needing one to mend you, because guess what happens when there is only one victim left or the rest have been slugged so there is only one standing with the deep wound. Therein lies the problem with needing someone else to mend the deep wound. With what I suggested, it becomes a much more dire threat, because not only can it down one if not mended, but can potentially hit during a chase so that the legion can catch up WITHOUT having to frenzy, but it can also hit in an already pressured situation, like when one is dire need of mending where that short moment of inability to interact can lead to a victim going down. Also making it count as a healing action means that for instance botany knowledge bonuses apply, but so does Nurses Calling, and by also having skill checks it can now be affected by anything that would affect skill checks. Where that now opens up a lot of possibilities with regards to making the deep wound possibly more severe to deal with. As mentioned, it could trigger during a chase, not only will it be more difficult to successfully hit the check, but for instance with Unnerving Presence and maybe Huntress' Lulaby, now it would be possible to have very difficult skill checks trigger during a chase WITHOUT even a warning.

    Furthermore, I think it's important to also add to the deep wound mechanic, that the status remains until healed back to full health, where the deep wound could still trigger skill checks, where if failed the deep wound will re-activate where it left off, and would also trigger the slowdown and the inability to interact for that short moment.

    I think what I suggested would make the deep wound much more of threat, and it would allow the legion to apply more passive map pressure the more has been hit with the deep wound and hasn't had the deep wound removed.

    This actually sounds good

    I think it's currently the best suggestion so far to fix and make the deep wound mechanic more of threat. I hope they actually read this and use it, even if they don't go with suggested power changes.

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