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Otz’s made great points on his video about Spirit

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  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 5,246

    Very well said. When it comes to her add-ons there aren't any really gimmicky ones. There's no Blood Warden style one or Lightborn style one, just a vast range of good add-ons. Imagine not being able to know an Oni is using Topknot.

    You gave an example of a killer you faced yesterday. I'd like to add to that with one of my own.

    My mate only started playing the game in September. He started playing with Huntress but because he doesn't watch any content creators or play the game at all really he doesn't understand a lot about the game. He got wanted to get Spirit which I said was a bad idea until he properly learned the game. He got her and I immediately said "Level up Nurse before levelling her and you'll get 3 very good perks for Spirit". You know what happened?

    He got to rank 8. He used Stridor, Thana, Sloppy and Nurses (changed to Pop after getting it in the Shrine). He stopped playing her and killer shortly after that because he kept getting red rank players. He didn't put hardly anytime into her or killer but he was still able to get to rank 8 just because he was playing Spirit. Till this day he still doesn't understand looping.

    If he can get to rank 8, with no proper knowledge of the game that says a lot. The bug was a brilliant bit of counterplay that I'm shocked the devs didn't keep in the game.

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,720

    Except you can see billy & nurse, you can hear billy & nurse, and this is why we can't talk solely about the addons.

  • DBD78DBD78 Member Posts: 2,624

    I mean to say Spirit has "no" counterplay is just dumb. Every killer have counterplay even if Spirit and Nurse has more limited counterplay. And if your counterplay fails you have teammates that can take hits, flashlight save etc.

  • TheGannManTheGannMan Member Posts: 8,477

    I mean yeah but the problem with Spirit’s counterplay is that it has nothing to do with how good the survivor is, it just comes down to if the Spirit is competent or not. That is a huge problem with design.

  • WeasdatWeasdat Member Posts: 129

    You blatantly posted false information and now you're moving the goalposts.

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,720
    edited June 2021

    What false information did I post? You clearly didn't read what I said,

    I said "NO ADDONS CHANGE A POWERS SPEED EVEN CLOSE TO THE AMOUNT SPIRIT DOES, MOST SPEED CHANGES ARE A FEW MILLISECONDS" I didn't say spirit was the fastest, you misunderstood what I had written and your rebuttal made little to no sense but I let it by because it would have been nitpicking, so no, I didn't post false information, you just didn't understand that I said spirits addons alter her speed more than billy etc addons alter their speed, try to understand next time.


    https://youtu.be/1Dqzt_FRFPc?t=332

    I linked the relevant part in the video so you can understand what i mean.

  • WeasdatWeasdat Member Posts: 129

    Billy gains 20% from one add on, Blight gains up to 50% with his two add ons (with no negatives btw) which is more than spirit's 40% from her iridescent. Nurse can gain a ######### load of speed with her add ons too between 20-30% with the extra range on her teleports and straight up adding a 3rd blink. So these three all come close or pass spirit's addons.


    Stop being so upset for posting something wrong.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,806

    Literally every match. The killer can't see ######### add ons you have on your items, and you can't see ######### add ons the killer is using. So why change that with spirit?

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,806

    The whole point of her kit is to not give you a bunch of information, especially when you're inside her terror radius. What you're advocating for is effectively removing her power and making her a worse off 110 M1 killer. Her whole kit is high mobility and no tells while she's actively chasing you. Which means your counter play is to not look for long winded infinite loops, but instead constantly jump windows, and loop transfer. If you try to loop her like a normal killer (WHICH LITERALLY EVERYBODY DOES CAUSE FORGET CHANGING YOUR PLAYSTYLE BASED ON THE KILLER YOU'RE FACING) you're gonna die....constantly.

    I can't count how many times I've seen survivors rush into a jungle gym vs my spirit, and proceed to take the same loops and directions as if I was playing pig....expecting a pallet drop or something. <-----WHY WOULD YOU TRY IT. I see people drop pallet, and then proceed to CAMP THE PALLET vs A SPIRIT....literally giving me the kill. They would have had plenty of time to run to the next jungle gym, or next loop but no....survivors in this game constantly camp pallets and unsafe loops. And nobody addresses this. 1000 posts about spirit, but no posts about dead zones? 1000 posts about spirit....but no posts about unsafe loops? Priorities on this forum are busted as hell.

  • PigMainBigBrainPigMainBigBrain Member Posts: 1,806

    You're not blindly guessing where she is, you can see her during your chase and force her to chase you a certain way vs another. Again, all you have to do is drop pallet and move. No doubling back, don't try to be slick and risk a respected pallet, don't try to be slick and try to skip over a window....take the pallets, take the windows, and as soon as you get an opening to reach the next loop LEAVE AND GO TO THE NEXT LOOP. Even with the best add ons its still going to force me to port over to the next loop you're going to, wasting my power. If I don't port to you I lose chase time and risk losing more loops. Did I stop to break the pallet? Yes? LEAVE AND GO TO THE NEXT LOOP!

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,720
    edited June 2021

    and Rin can increas hers by 40% with one addon, what's your point here?

    and which addons increases Blights movement speed by 50% I can't seem to find them? and if you're talking about the ones that let you get a speed increase with consecutive hits how is there no negatives to these? they don't work at full power all the time, I would agree if you were immediately 50% faster but you're just not, you're only 50% faster after 5 bumps?? lmao


    there is literally nothing I posted that was wrong, you misunderstood now talking about stacking addons and a 20% increase addon which is half of the top Spirit addon.

  • WeasdatWeasdat Member Posts: 129

    All those addons come close to rin or surpass not to mention all 3 of those killers are still faster than her. You said no other add ons increase speed by more than few miliseconds which is blatantly not true. You also still act like Rin's iri doesn't have a huge downside.


    "there is literally nothing I posted that was wrong"


    I have posted several times showing where you're wrong and you keep back peddling and moving goalposts. Perhaps you should stop.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,553

    I feel like chases for me as survivor are very hit or miss as spirit. some chases are short due to couple bad reads in a row, others can be very long due to some very imbalanced loops and structures with like 1:30-2 minute chase. survivor's won't be happy with spirit until they can consistently do 2 minute chases vs spirit like they do with every other m1 killer with limited power intervention. Most of the time, when they weaken killers, their changes are overly impactful so much so that they make the killer almost unplayable vs good survivors and than you usually get watered down matchmaking for the killers to compensate the killer being... not amazing. Its usually to target their skill expression so that their skill has no real impact on the match. they did that with Freddy and with Billy.

    When they do touch spirit, they won't just change her a "little bit", survivors won't be happy with a "little bit". they'll weaken everything. about her they'll gut her mother daughter ring, her amulet, her father glasses, her green shoes, her base movement speed in phase walk and give a visual/sound cues for when she is phasing. If its not auto-win pilot mode for survivor, than its unfair. Its why killers don't necessary enjoy these "killer changes" even though they're basically inevitable.

  • odraodra Member Posts: 369


    With Freddy ? Freddy changes basically nothing with his power, they only touch forever freddy which is good enough for me, you're only true about billy, but what with other recent buff as wraith ?

    when they do touch spirit then all spirit mains who get carried to red ranks will cry, thats for sure maybe they will try learn other strong killer like Nurse, Oni, etc but wont get carried with spirit

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,553

    Billy's skills were oriented around chainsaw feathering, backreving and curving dynamically around a loop. these skills existed because of charge-time oriented add-ons. Basically, Billy chainsaw was so fast that him reving at a pallet would force survivors to make decisions for whether they wish to attempt to dodge curves or put down pallets. Billy breaks pallets very rapidly so a eventually, you'll have no pallets and many deadzones vs a killer that instant downs. now a days, Billy cannot curve good survivors because his chainsaw is too slow and survivors usually able to make the corner around most pallets before billy can land curves. Even than, curves can be side-stepped/avoided through reaction. This is why you no longer see much billy play.

    Freddy's skills were oriented around using his snares effectively and his macro management of survivors. Typically, when your in dream world as survivor, most filler pallets have to be instantly dropped because can place a snare to left, a snare to the right and than he will push you into both snares allowing him to lunge at you and hit you before you can put down the pallet. For this reason, everyone is suppose to instant drop pallets vs freddy... however Freddy still makes these pallets unsafe because he could place snare around loops to artificial shrink length of a loop through his hindered effect. The problem now a days is that you get slowed for placing snares, so your hindered effect does nothing around pre-drop pallets so your forced to break them in which survivors will simply shift+W to next pallet and repeat same process until you break virtually every pallet on the map or abandon the chase. Some of the pallets are so safe to the point that survivor never needs to rotate them and can camp them but that's another matter entirely. His generator teleport was great way to elb-flow from chase to chase and micro manage survivors by keeping them in the dream world. As for micro managing survivors, Well there is no reward to it as you are not rewarded for keeping survivors in the dream nor is there any punishment/effect for being in dream world. Like billy, Freddy was able to prologue the game for long time so wasting pallets could lead to no pallets remaining in the map from a long game

    Long story short, Billy doesn't get rewarded for being good at curving(Good usage of his chainsaw) and Freddy doesn't get rewarded for using his snares or keeping survivors in the dream world. so yes, for people that weren't really using these killers full-kit to their max potencial, the changes didn't really impact them but for Masterful billy and Freddy. The changes were impactful.

    Now survivors are lazy to make reads against Spirit phase-walk so obvious solution is to make phase-walk unrewarding so you do not learn to play against spirit properly. easy way to accomplish this? Weaken add-on, weaken phase-walk, very simple.

  • SeanzuSeanzu Member Posts: 6,720

    Right so I watched a video where one of the most informed dbd creators talks about how no addons even come close to spirits, so taking that information yes I guess I'm wrong, but i don't get why you keep bringing up other killers being faster than her, I never once said that any killer is faster than Spirit, I don't get why you keep bringing up who is faster when it literally doesn't matter in the conversation at all. The big difference between literally every killer and Spirit is you can't see her and she's so fast, if a billy is coming towards me at mach speed I can still dodge it, I don't even know what a spirit is doing at mach speed.

  • just_temejust_teme Member Posts: 190
    1. bt can be waited out and is obvious most of the time
    2. ds is run like 15% of the games now aside from it being the obsession there isnt much point to ever respect it.
    3. you always expect her to have more hatchets because she can always try baiting you into thinking she doesent.
    4. spirit fury is also extremely annoying to play against however most people who use it blindly lunge into every pallet making it rather obvious. also kicking pallets that are normally a waste of time is a good indication aswell.
    5. With spirit you make and educated guess. yes you can count how many seconds she *might* have been in phase in but you have to blindly guess her exact location every second which becomes exponentally more absurd every second especially since the addons make such a huge diffrence. for an experienced player you might it pull it off bit more especially against a less experienced killer however for the average player its unreasonably difficult. the problem isnt that shes good its that its tidious to play against.
  • just_temejust_teme Member Posts: 190

    cant recommend after an hour of that you will be bored out of your mind most of the games are so similiar its starts feeling like a joke

  • TheGannManTheGannMan Member Posts: 8,477

    Nah I do like playing Spirit as she is my favorite killer (not the one I find the most fun to play but my favorite killer in general). Playing her with meta perks can be boring though that’s why I like using meme perks like Mad Grit on her.

  • just_temejust_teme Member Posts: 190

    I respect the cultured perk pick my favourite has to be infectious fright huntress

  • TheGannManTheGannMan Member Posts: 8,477
  • WeasdatWeasdat Member Posts: 129

    I showed you there are better addons and ones that come close. You said there wasn't acting like spirit is one off case worth her addons. That's blatantly not true and now you're using circular logic to say you're right because of otz's video. Calm down man.

  • WeasdatWeasdat Member Posts: 129

    Everything you just said is still making guesses. You're just claiming that it's always obvious to you because bad players always do x thing. You're still guessing just educated guessing. Same as spirit. All of these things have zero indication until it's too late.

  • OopsAllHexesOopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624

    What skill? Running around a loop, running around a wall?

    These are Survivor basics, absolutely nothing special is being done.

  • OopsAllHexesOopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624

    Alright, then make Iron Will unable to suppress her power.

    Not like that would even be good enough anyways, "general info" is enough to know when to vault back, drop the pallet or move at all.

  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 5,246

    Bring Stridor it counters Iron Will extremely well 👍

    I wouldn't mind Iron Will not working against her if Stridor didn't either.

  • lolololollolololol Member Posts: 106

    So did Truetalent, she has counter play. Only add on I see to be a problem is mother daughter everything else is fine. Plus don’t get me wrong I like otzs but he says hags top tier for Christ sake lol..

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