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[RANT] Keys

Three games in a row when survivors have multiple keys. Why? Incompetence. Moris had a surprise nerf, thats fair I don't care, but what I am upset with is the blatant announcement of "keys are next hur durr". Survivors are using all of their keys. Its fine, we got Franklin's Demise.

Time passes and Resident Evil chapter is on the PTB. Wow, Nemesis, syringes, flashbangs, how cool. Can't wait for June 15. The time comes and console players suffer, the game crashes sometimes and they disabled the new map. Typical Behavior, nothing we can do. I play nemesis, and I see 3 key users. After promptly losing, I take a break. Watch a Scott Jund video, turns out Franklin's was nerfed. What?

I play a new game. 2 keys, I equip Franklin's. Still lost, why? Thanks to behaviors fantastic intuition, instead of fixing the code for syringes, they nerf Franklin's. Why? I just lost 3 games with keys, moris and Franklin's nerfed, my games are infested with keys.

Lost every single one because even if I tunnel, either they pick it up or another person has another key. Why are killers forced to deal with this? Why did moris get surprise nerfs yet announce key nerfs? Survivors bully killers and killers are forced to deal with it? Why do you think survivor queue times are long? How is this fair?

Comments

  • PhasmamainPhasmamain Member Posts: 10,038

    They did actually announce they had plans for mori’s but never specified when similar to keys. I do agree it is taking too long though

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676

    Because devs need to overcomplicate things when it comes to keys. Mories = simple fix, increase hook number from 1 to 2. Same for iri heads.

    With keys all they need to do is to change number that allows hatch to spawn to be always 5 gens. DONE fixed perfectly.

    But noooo, it needs to be complex rework with new animations, mechanics or whatever they're doing all this time which in the end won't even adress the issues keys have.

    I really can't wait to see what they'll come up with once the changes actually happen (hopefully in next 2 years) and fail when simple change to hatch spawning rules whould fix everything so easily.

  • FrndlyChnswSalzmnFrndlyChnswSalzmn Member Posts: 705

    I have a whole thread about this. it got poo-pooed by the legion of Survivor mains and sympathizers who swear it's fair and balanced.


    Save your energy. BHVR doesn't care and their survivor minions are only too happy to have easy no-brain wins.

  • TrickstaaaaaTrickstaaaaa Member Posts: 1,256

    you don't have to stay in lobbies if you they equip keys... You can choose to leave you know that right?

    If I load in to a lobby as a killer, and I see they have keys you know what I do? I just press the leave button.

  • KebekKebek Member Posts: 3,676
  • SophrosynesSophrosynes Member Posts: 13

    Last second switches are inevitable. Unless I could see the future

  • TrickstaaaaaTrickstaaaaa Member Posts: 1,256

    I rarely seen anyone do that. It's just super rare, I doubt it happened three times in a row either way.

  • aroellaroell Member Posts: 477

    You can actually just close the game in the loading screen without receiving a penalty, losing addons, offerings or pips. So that is a counter.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,497
    edited June 2021

    The mori nerf was announced the same way as the key nerf. I needed months to use up all my moris, and i simply used them every game...

    Keys on itself are fine for me (but then, i am a survivor main anyway, but i still dont care if i play killer)

    The franklins nerf, however, was really unneeded. It was a good way to handle keys, and is now gone for no reason.

    If i bring a key as survivor, i dont switch it in last second, i always display it from the start. I think killers need the time and strategie to prepare, and if its worth to someone to bring one or two perks just for that, its their decission. Its just part of fairness, to me at least.

  • CallmehandsomeCallmehandsome Member Posts: 529

    That's not true. They nerfed mories out of nowhere, that's why nobody had time to spam them like keys. They first hinted that mories are being looked at like literally 2 YEARS ago, so unless you have been spamming mories 2 years straight..

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,090

    can't you still back out even when the countdown reaches 5?

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,497

    Well, yes, i have. But i was playing killer only 30% of my time anyway. And a key nerf havn´t happen yet, it might take 2 years and then they nerf them without further notice, and it would be just the same.

  • kisfenkinkisfenkin Member Posts: 365

    Three reasons:

    Adept - Trophies/achievements are a thing you get when there are new ones to get.

    Prestige - The entity eats your items when you prestige. All that blood is just lost. Most idiotic leveling system I've ever seen.

    Endgame Collapse - You can close the hatch now, so it is only fair that they can bring an item that opens it back up.

    Don't be afraid of keys. Rank means absolutely nothing more than that you were willing to put a certain amount of time into playing the game the way you're meant to. If you aren't having fun, why are you playing?

  • SabraizSabraiz Member Posts: 413

    Any game with prestige system resets you completely when you prestige as far as I know.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 4,353

    "Don't play the game" isn't a counter, it's just refusing to play the game. You could have said the same about moris and told survivors just to force-close the game when they saw the killer burn a mori offering, but that wouldn't have made moris healthy or okay.

  • BeelzeboopBeelzeboop Member Posts: 1,306

    You phrase it like everyone who plays survivor or doesn't see the entire survivor playerbase as their enemy is an entitled, toxic douchebag.

    That's a... hasty generalization.

    I know it feels that way sometimes, but I've met some decent survivor mains, so I can confirm that they aren't all mindless toxicity factories with no sense of self awareness.

  • aroellaroell Member Posts: 477
  • MilesMiles Member Posts: 459

    last second switch and devs want to penalize lobby dodging.

  • darwinsbraindarwinsbrain Member Posts: 99

    I played about 20 survivor matches yesterday and didn't see a single key. Not one. In fact I rarely see keys at all. This killer main hysteria of KEYS KEYS KEYS is way overblown.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 4,353

    They aren't, but in practice they're very similar. They allow the player bringing them to end the game in their favor early.

    Keys are dangerous for killers because they become relevant when the killer's power is at its peak. The first few gens are always the quickest to go by, and the killer's ability to find, damage, and pressure survivors increases as the number of gens (and survivors) decreases. Hatch becomes available at the point where the killer is strongest and their early-game setup is paying off. They hard counter 3-gens, as the killer can't guard hatch and gens at the same time, and survivors don't need setup time to open the hatch, so patrolling is pointless. The instant you leave the hatch, all 3 survivors are gone; don't leave the hatch and they do your gens. Same happens if you kill the survivor with the key and then camp the key spot. The best you can do is lose one and close the hatch before the other two get out, and you have to be cleverer than the survivors are to pull that off. The only way a key becomes useless is if the killer overpowers the team before 3 gens were completed, the survivors are solos and there's no coordination or understanding, or if the killer pulls off a 4-man slug before hooking anyone.

    Moris let killers end the game early by decreasing the number of hooks necessary to kill survivors, and also hard countering DS/hook trades while encouraging killers to camp hooks (by making it so much easier to tunnel a survivor out of the game.) The only way a mori became useless was when the survivors outmatched/out-strategized the killer to the point where they couldn't even get 2 downs on each survivor, let alone 3, and they didn't manage to remove a player from the game early enough to matter.

    They're both bad for the game. They hand a win condition that generally bypasses the other side's efforts unless the other side out-skills them by a massive margin. And while I think Moris are pointless now, that's still better off than where they were. My biggest issue with keys, beyond the lack of a hatch opening sequence, is that you can't remove them from the match. If a key always disappeared when the survivor holding it died, they would be way less of a problem, but as it stands, focusing on that player is pointless when another survivor will just take the key from their corpse and do the same thing. This is why the Franklin's nerf has people up in arms - there was one way to get rid of the key for good and it's gone now.

    I still fail to see how "don't play the game against them" is a fair argument for their current state.

  • KingFrostKingFrost Member Posts: 3,014

    My team always leaves me behind when they use a key to escape. Last night two Leons left my poor Jill behind against a trapper. Luckily I made it out because the Trapper checked the wrong exit gate first. But that still kinda sucked. Felt bad for Trapper, cause he had a good thing going. I think I've had a solo queue survivor save me maybe twice with their key. Every other time, I get left behind. So I'm okay with nerfing them.

  • aroellaroell Member Posts: 477

    It is a fair argument. You dont need to get them nerfed because you don’t like them.

  • HaunterofShadowsHaunterofShadows Member Posts: 3,505

    well they nerfed the only counter to it so good luck

  • YOURFRIENDYOURFRIEND Member Posts: 2,019

    Despite the patch notes, Franklin's is actually unchanged. Used it last night.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 6,643

    I seriously can't even remember the last time keys were used to escape vs me. I "lose" more to the last person being on hatch. Or doors then I ever do keys(I don't use whispers(

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 4,353

    I'm not going to accept that answer unless/until you refute anything I've said. I'll just continue to reiterate that if the only counterplay you can suggest is not playing the game when you see a key in a lobby, there is no counterplay to keys.

  • aroellaroell Member Posts: 477

    But there is! For they key to be usable the survivors have to get to a certain point in the game. Don’t let that happen. Pressure gens, please do it. There are plenty of perks to help with that.


    For all the survivors to escape with the key they have to do all gens, by the time they have done that you have already lost.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 4,353
    edited June 2021

    I already told you, preventing those gens from being completed is very difficult against decent survivors/requires total domination because the way the game pans out, the first few gens are freebies for the survivors and the last ones are the ones the killer contests. The killer can only pressure one location at a time, and at the start of the game, 3 survivors are free to sit on gens for as long as the killer hasn't found anyone/the fourth one loops, and all of the map's resources remain to prolong chases. The avalanche begins once the first survivor goes down, and less survivors are free to work on gens between hooks, rescues, and healing.

    It's the exact same as telling survivors in an old mori game to just get good and loop better so the killer can't two-hook anyone. Yeah, it's possible if you're way better than the killer you're facing, but it's not something you should expect. Same in reverse. And I would think, with your stances on everything else, you wouldn't be angling for a game where you can routinely expect killers to 4k by 3 gens remaining.

    A 4-man escape with a key is irrelevant; the survivors can easily escape through the gates in that case, and there's no salvaging a 4-man gate scenario unless the survivors essentially kill themselves by throwing themselves into hook situation and bungling it up. The killer already lost that game. I'm mainly talking about 3-man escapes, though 2-man escapes are also a problem and available even earlier.

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