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Truetalent vs Oracle team, what do you think?



  • BwstedBwsted Member Posts: 2,710

    If you're talking about the animation reset on Spirit, that's inconsistent.

    If a reset happens, she's indeed phasing.

    HOWEVER (big however), she can phase without a reset happening.

  • OmegaXIIOmegaXII Member Posts: 2,060

    That’s what everyone is asking for. Buffing solos to SWF level, and balance the game around it.

    But no. Devs won’t do this because it’s basically remake the game. So we’re stuck.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,456

    To me, arguing from competitive DBD to say survivors arent balanced, is like arguing that McDonalds isnt vegan enough. McDonalds will always sell more non-vegan options.

    Competitive DBD needs to be balanced more around rules made for the competition, rather than relying on the devs, since the game is not competitive. You dont have the same objectives.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Because nurse having the lowest killrate, but beeing the best killer means that these stats have to be fed with more context in order to be valuable. I am NOT saying stats are useless. I am a big fan of stats as this is also what i do professionally. But i also know that the right context of stats is inherently important. And again: if optimal play shows, that survivors have to do mistakes so the killer can win then this means that survivors in general NO MATTER the skill have to do mistakes so killers can win. It is what it logically means. You do not need any more data than this, when it comes to determine who has the upper hand. When it comes to balancing its another discussion, where many different sides have valid points. But the question of who is the power role of this game has been answered. In order to balance properly people have to realize that first and when i look in this forum, not many people seem to have realized that yet.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,572

    that statement is wrong. the survivors had to run unique perks and they had to run a unique item below yellow rarity. none of these rules exist in solo queue. they weren't running optimized builds. Tru3 playing Wraith could run anything. they purposely handicapping themselves and the matches were extremely one-sided.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Yes might be true, but the it is extremeley likely that the animation reset happens. I have like 90-95% rate of knowing when she phases when i tested this with friends. All of my friends achieved the same after just like 30 minutes of training, which is not much.

  • NozNoz Member Posts: 168
    edited June 2021

    Dowsey played against them after that. He lost hard. He played the twins, managed to get a good camp going at shack, which resulted in a 1k. The game after that 0k.

    Video: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1058945772?t=3h52m14s

  • OopsAllHexesOopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624

    I don't think you watched those videos.

    Come back to me once you've seen them instead of the typical "TRU3 BAD, TRU3 ALWAYS WRONG" gimmick

  • Edgars_RavenEdgars_Raven Member Posts: 1,236

    If the games not competitive then why an mmr, and why does it take hundreds of hours to really start getting good? Theres no mmr or skill caps in mario party

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,456

    Because Mario party doesnt have an online scenario. You could play DBD like Mario Party if you were to play Kill Your Friends constantly.

    But that aside, there is a skill cap in Mario Party. If you can win minigames consistently, you win games consistently. Just like in DBD, if you can hook consistently as a killer, you win consistently as a killer. Or if you fix gens consistently as a survivor, you win consistently as a survivor.

    As for MMR, DBD is never going to be pure MMR based. MMR is going to help seperate players in terms of skill to even out the odds a bit better. Let alone that MMR is VERY recent. This game is 5 years old. Why no MMR from the start? If Mario Party were online and as popular as DBD, you would need an MMR system there too to seperate players.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,484

    Dowsey use to play with the oracle members and he played wraith against them after tru3 and got the same result. he use to be a comp player.

  • OopsAllHexesOopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624

    Mario Party has had online play for a while now, and the next game should have it too...

    Hooking consistently also can't happen against good Survivors unless you're playing a Killer with a good chase power. The over-all skill cap for Killer is lower than Survivor, since Survivors can place themselves in optimal positions and always prevent 50/50s as a result. You would need to be playing a Killer like Nurse, Spirit, Slinger, Blight, etc... which is why these Killers get complained about.

    But anyways, Killer and Survivor do not have the same cap, good Survivors will always be able to outplay a Killer regardless of the Killer's skill level. Good Survivors always trump good Killers unless the Killer they're playing is top tier.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,547
    edited June 2021

    There is no data that shows survivor players need to make mistakes for killers to win. In fact, that's just something some Streamer said and now is parroted back by the masses.

    I mean how does that saying even make sense. No one plays optimally, so there's no way to even test this saying.

    Look at the Tru3talent game, he absolutely did not play optimally. The survivors were much more optimal than him, but even they didn't play optimally. So you are taking a much less optimal Wraith game play with a streamer that isn't the optimal killer player and are comparing it to survivors that play much more optimally setup and are one of the best teams in DBD and comparing sub-optimal Killer game play to a much much higher optimization of pro DBD team.

    I think you would need the top Nurse killer, with the best perks and best add-ons on a map that is considered average, against that pro-DBD team before you can even compare the 2.

    (And we both know this is NOT normal game play on any level).

  • bobateobobateo Member Posts: 254

    So, I didn't play against or as pre-nerf nurse. I have watched some gameplay of her though from that time because I was curious. I'm not exactly sure how people are supposed to 'learn to play differently' against a Killer who can negate pretty much all survivor defenses (exhaustion perks, except maybe dead hard on occassion, pallets & windows) with that power/ability being almost on demand for the Killer & significantly enhanced by add-ons. And it seems like Omega Blink Nurse could pretty much cross the entire map with very little penalty at all. Especially with stealth getting so many nerfs for survs. I'm guess Omega Blink build had a lot to do with the prevalence of 5gen/4 slugs game outcomes with Nurse.

    I completely get why people did not like/hate the cool down. I don't know if there was a better solution or if that was just the easiest one to implement.

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,122

    Omega blink Nurse was definitely broken, but nothing else should have been changed. Nurse does not “negate all survivor defenses”. You can break her line of sight and force her to guess if you are going to run back or not. There is gameplay on both sides. If you watched true’s video, you’d see that killer gets absolutely no gameplay. They just instantly slam pallets and body block. The game needs to be more like Nurse and Spirit and less like holding forward/pallet sim.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,456

    It has online play, but Free Play is extremely recent(seriously, its 2 months old) and cannot really be used as an argument since it's new.

    "Hooking consistently also can't happen against good Survivors unless you're playing a Killer with a good chase power."

    Can happen tho, I've been hooking consistently with pretty much all killers I play, including Legion and Myers. They arent tournament survivors, sure, but to claim tournament survivors are the only good survivors is claiming that 99.9% of the playerbase is bad. Which is false.

    "The over-all skill cap for Killer is lower than Survivor, since Survivors can place themselves in optimal positions and always prevent 50/50s as a result."

    Also false, killers have a much higher skill cap than survivors. Survivors simply have more potential. But you do ignore the following: once 1 survivor is dead, survivors cannot fix more than 1 generator, as 1 survivor is on the hook, and needs to be saved within 60 or 120 seconds(154 if you have camaraderie). As soon as 1 survivor is dead, survivors need to get very creative to fix more than 1 gen. Which is why my current playing philosophy is to make sure 1 survivor is dead once 3 gens are done, and if I want to be merciful, I can leave all 4 survivors alive untill they fix the 3rd gen. Once 1 survivor is gone with more than 1 generator left, killers win. Even if all pallets are being dropped, even if all "second-chance" perks are being used, even if they bodyblock with BT.

    4 survivors have, and need to have, more potential than the killer. If you want to nerf 4 survivors/buff killers to give the killer and survivor equal potential at the start of the match, you need to nerf the killer's potential/buff survivor potential for every survivor that got removed. Meaning Killers actually would become less powerful over time while survivors get more powerful over time. In contrast to the current situation where survivors get less powerful over time vs killers getting more powerful over time.

    The only reasons top tier survivors are more powerful than top tier killers, is because they keep the killer busy and since they are all at equal skill level, it doesnt matter for the killer who is being chased and they cannot drop the chase. This is why tournaments have specific rules on limiting perks that buy time for survivors.

    This is why having pure MMR and balancing the game around competition, and calling this game competitive is all moot. Because this game is more similar to Mario Party, than it is to CSGO. And that's fine.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,484

    He casted the tru3 match and then versed them directly after with the same result on both wraith and twins.

  • bobateobobateo Member Posts: 254

    The window for breaking LOS with nurse on just fatigue was pretty small. And with scratch marks, etc, it's not like survs were that hard to track post fatigue from what I've been watching. But it does seem like the only defense was breaking LOS and hoping you guessed right. I think it's understandable that players don't like 'and hope I guess right' anymore than 'and hope the cooldown isn't too punishing'. I mean, her blink was far enough to eat up distance gained by most exhaustion perks, she can go around pallets without much, if any penalty with her blink, go through windows without any slow down with her blink and take the shortest route to up or down stairs. Even at loops with high walls, there's generally two ways for survs to go, making even strong loops just 50/50s.

    Don't get me wrong, I like playing against Nurse even if I hardly ever win. She can be a much more dynamic Killer to play against in a chase. However, I honestly cannot imagine what that would be like without having the window the cool down provides.

    Do you think if they fixed some of the bugs that seem to be plaguing nurse that it'd make her CD less a problem?

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,122

    My problem with the cooldown is that it forces her to play lame. Her map control was most impacted by the cooldown, not her chase. Now she struggles to go from place to place, which means that in most situations it is better for her to stay near the hook. I feel like the devs have absolutely no idea what they did with the change. It promotes less fun gameplay.

  • DBD78DBD78 Member Posts: 2,625

    Well first of all game is survivor sided of course, second the survivor players are probably better than Tru individually since he is not one of the very best killers. And last he used Wraith who is a mediocre killer.

  • KharbargKharbarg Member Posts: 126

    The truth forgotten and buried years ago is obvious and simple: there is no way to balance the game around SWF simply because it is another game mode.

    Although the game does not have it on the menu as another game mode, SWF is just that: another game mode.

    It is not possible to balance two game modes as if they were the same.

    The day that BHVR decides to do the test of having the two modes separated (solo-q and SWF) then there they will be able to balance them separately. Surely solo-q will not change much and SWF will have some nerf on the side of the survivors, but above all several buffs on the side of the killers.

  • KIKI_KIKI_ Member Posts: 135

    Dead by Daylight is a game where depending on the side you choose to play, you will be faced with either a PvP experience or a PvE experience. They want one side to play the environment role. They can say they don't meant that, that they are working or a b or c. Yet this is the way it feels and their game speaks louder than their words.

    So basically they ######### on one side. This works perfectly fine when people plays quite chill i.e. they suck i.e. Problem arises as you start improving. And this is what we get at it's finest. You can talk with any of the members from Oracle. They expected one hook. They know that Wraith regardless of whom might play should not get more than one hook. The most important fact is that you don't need to face oracle to start experiencing how boosted one side starts to feel. People keep pointing the obvious thing that not everyone is Oracle. You don't need to be Oracle to experience this. You just need to be good and have a bunch of friends who are also good. That's it.

    People also points out that this is not a daily thing. That's not ground truth for everyone. Region, time, mmr probably soon. All of them are variables that influence the caliber that you are meet with. To ignore this is just shitting over a portion of your playerbase. Fairness? Dedication? Healthy competition? Are those values that you don't promote?

    If you play killer you are here to play the environment role. This is what happens when people capitalize on that.

  • GeneralVGeneralV Member Posts: 7,098

    Precisely. Very few killers managed to get a safety against the Depip Squad. The first was a Freddy, and I think a Huntress did it too.

    Or was it a Nurse? I don't even remember.

  • SleepyWilloSleepyWillo Member Posts: 2,081

    Did I say he was bad? Can you show me where I said that so I can change it? Because I'm almost positive I didnt say he was bad.

    I'd say hes somewhere between average and good. I just dont think hes as amazing as he clearly seems to think he is.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,059

    One other thing to add: This was a bit of a mismatch. A random college basketball player isn't going to jump in an NBA game and compete. Oracle can (on rare occasions) be beaten by killers like PH. I've seen it happen. You just can't take in Wraith, try to play hit and run against some of the best survivors in the world who have been practicing with each other almost daily for 3 years, and expect a decent result.

    Tru3 isn't at a competitive level on killer. Not saying he couldn't get there, but you don't get there by playing solos all the time. A better killer gets a better result.

    But to say this is indicative of anything is kind of wild. Yes, guy who never played comp DbD got rolled by the best comp DbD team in the world. Who woulda thunk it?

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