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The Twins: my comprehensive analysis.

TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278
edited June 2021 in General Discussions

(TL;DR - Twins now good. Much good killer. Do the thing with Victor. Win. Celebrate with cookie.)


So I absolutely HATED the Twins upon release. Some of you already know this as you may have read one of my few epic rants about how I thought they were the absolute WORST killer ever. I went within days of first trying them from “Twins are fun” to “HOW COULD THEY RELEASE SUCH A TOTAL JOKE OF A KILLER?!?!”


I was seriously having the most terrible experiences in DBD I had ever had playing as Twins, yet for some odd reason I was compelled to stubbornly keep playing them. I just HAD to understand them. I HAD to “get it” and find out why certain design decisions were made. 


I’m pleased to say that I think I’m there now. I’ve been surprised to find out just how cleverly designed the Twins are, and how complex and robust their kit actually is. Probably not since Doc and Demogorgan has a killer given a player such a large amount to digest, although Twins are probably on par with Demogorgan as far as versatility are concerned. 


To summarise everything Twins can do (in no particular order, and will be elaborated further down);

  • Stealth.
  • Map Pressure.
  • Game Stall.
  • Tracking.
  • Anti-loop.
  • Traps/Ambushes.


I won’t go into The Twins Camping and Snowball potential as that’s already pretty well known, so it’s just superfluous to cover it here. For the record I’m in full support of nerfing their camping capability. I.e. Victor should be auto destroyed if he’s already within a specified distance from a hook that Charlotte places a survivor onto. 


Stealth. 

Let’s start with base kit Victor. No other killer or power can move around the map at decently high speed, avoid all survivor detection perks, be difficult to see or hear until it’s far too late, launch into a blazingly fast attack before a survivor even realised what’s hit them, AND cause minor game stall in the process. It’s enough to make Wraith, Ghostface, Myers, and Pig jealous. 


Then as Charlotte, if both her and Victor have been used smartly, and is close by to a survivor that Victor is latched onto, Oblivious increases the odds of approaching that survivor from a vantage the survivor may not be expecting. The delay in Charlotte’s TR returning is a nice touch if wanting to go for other survivors revealed by Killer Instinct. 

Then we have Silencing Cloth, Drop of Perfume, and Cat’s Eye. All of these add ons bolster stealth play by adding further options in clever strategy. Toy Sword may offer Victor a faster pounce charge to try and get a survivor before they manage to turn a corner, but it’s much more satisfying charging pounce with Cat’s Eye, and then have the survivor accidentally run right back into you because they can no longer hear where Victor is. 


Map Pressure. 

This probably needs little explanation. As long as the player smartly manages the distance between Charlotte & Victor by ensuring they’re never too drastically far from each other, they’re able to control a significant chunk of the map by having Victor capitalise on what Charlotte does, and vice versa.


Game Stall.

Victor is probably one of the most effective stall tools out of all of the killer kits. Latching Victor onto healthy survivors regularly takes them out of their objective immediately, and many survivors only create further stall for themselves by going into a panic without thinking clearly about where exactly they SHOULD be running to. This is even more effective If Charlotte focuses her attention onto a survivor revealed by Killer Instinct, giving the Twins 2 for 1 game stall. 

We can’t talk about Victor latching onto survivors without also talking about kidnapping. Here’s my spin on it. I think pretty much any killer would give ANYTHING to have 1 survivor dead at 4, or even still 5 gens left to repair, leaving them to have to deal with only 3 survivors. The odds of success skyrocket when it’s 3 survivors (or less), with 3 or more repairs still left for the survivors to do. A survivor WILLINGLY taking themselves out of their team objective by kidnapping Victor is actually a MASSIVE boon to you as killer. There’s simply no greater game stall than a survivor literally not engaging in their objective. A kidnapper may as well be an Urban Evader doing nothing but creeping around the map perimeter. I almost never intentionally go after the survivor I just latched Victor onto unless I happened to have Charlotte already close by. I almost always try and find someone else. Even better if teammates have been revealed to me by Killer Instinct. If Victor is kidnapped, fine. I can keep monitoring their whereabouts after some time, and very, very rarely do kidnappers NOT at some point go “oh crap! I can see the others are struggling now.”, and will finally get rid of Victor so they can actually try to help again. Kidnapping Victor is a red herring. They’re trying to psyche you out. Don’t let them. 


Tracking.

This probably also doesn’t need much elaboration. Killer Instinct activating whenever Victor is either latched onto a survivor, or whenever he is used as a sentry is an invaluable tool that should be utilised at its utmost potential. This can work to help with game stall if survivors start crouch walking the 12 metres towards Victor to counter Killer Instinct. Using either Soured Milk, or Madeleines Glove (or both) makes this even stronger, whether for the increased detection range, or to make survivors crouch walk over a further distance as a counter to Killer Instinct. This also leads me into...


Traps & Ambushes. 

Victor, used as a Sentry, can additionally act as a trap/bait for survivors. Or when either Silencing Cloth or Drop of Perfume are used (whether with or without Soured Milk or Madeleines Glove) allow Charlotte to ambush a survivor given away by Killer Instinct when they’re approaching Victor. Even better if you set up intentional baits using either Toy Soldier or Iridescent Pendant. It’s shocking just how effective a strategy it is to send Victor to a key point of interest, such as a gen you’re certain survivors are going to quickly return to, leave him idle, but immediately switch back from Charlotte to Victor again because you’ve heard/seen Killer Instinct activate the very instant you switched to Charlotte, knowing that a survivor is running in to try and kick Victor (they can’t resist). Now you’re controlling Victor, the survivor is right next to you confused, and they are now able to be pounced on because of the vulnerable, compromised position they’re in. 


Anti-Loop. 

Whenever controlling Charlotte, and Victor is with you, The Twins have some of the strongest anti-loop in the game. Stop at the most advantageous spot in a loop for a survivor (provided it’s not within stun distance of a pallet), and then unleash Victor. With Charlotte body blocking the survivors ability to attempt another lap of the same loop, and Victor hot on their tail, they’re often forced to abandon the loop, which potentially puts them out in the open while you’re chasing as Victor, hoping they’re able to successfully dodge Victor’s next pounce. It’s worth noting that the reverse can be done too. If Victor is chasing someone that’s demonstrated that they’re adept at regularly dodging pounce, and Charlotte’s close by, then parking Victor in a spot at a loop that forces the survivor to stop and kick him in order to pass usually allows enough time to get Charlotte there to hit them while the survivor is animation locked. At Shack placing Charlotte on the inside of the Window, facing inward to unleash Victor leaves a survivor with only being able to do another half lap of shack, and through the interior once more before they can hope that Victor cannot land a pounce before they reach the pallet, something Victor can leap over anyway. At worst, if the pounce is missed, the pallet is down and Charlotte can get rid of it. 1 and a half laps by the survivor, and the pallet is gone. Some killers would die of envy to be able to get rid of shack pallet this quickly. 


Now let’s look at how the Twins 3 teachable perks compliment their abilities. I hold the philosophy that teachable perks are never random. I believe there’s a deliberate reason killers have certain perks tied to them. 


Coup De Grace. 

I wouldn’t exactly say this perk synergises with the Twins power directly. This perk is more about in the event that Charlotte is either without Victor, or it is not ideal to switch to Victor mid chase, Coup De Grace ensures Charlotte at least has SOMETHING up her sleeve up to 5 times per match. It’s also currently one of the best available counters to Dead Hard. 


Hoarder.

I’ve totally changed my tune about Hoarder. I was at first totally bummed out about the fact that a way couldn’t be figured out how to make the original concept work: that Hoarder also reduced item rarity. I dismissed the perk as being a complete waste of a perk slot. I’m still disappointed that the perk doesn’t reduce item rarity (making the perk somewhat risky to use), and I do hope this is revisited and they find a way to make the perk reduce item rarity, but Twins actually get GREAT value out of Hoarder. As weird as this comparison is, Hoarder is kinda like Overcharge. My meaning being: just as no other killer gets as much value out of Overcharge as Doc does, no other killer can capitalise on the information Hoarder gives quite the same way Twins can. Sure, you could use it on a high mobility killer, but survivors will hear them coming. Even Wraith is going to give himself away before getting close enough to a chest to uncloak. But Charlotte can immediately send Victor off in the direction of a chest notification, using Victor’s speed AND stealth ambush a survivor still locked in the chest opening (or pick up) animation by pouncing on them just outside of shriek range. Getting a basement chest notification is comedy gold. And with either Spinning Top and/or Franklin’s Demise, Twins get even MORE value out of Hoarder, either as extra tracking, reconnaissance (just to stay informed), or further ambush opportunities. 


Oppression. 

The gen regression potential of Oppression is pretty easy to understand (opinions on how effective this is or isn’t notwithstanding). But it’s more noteworthy how Oppression works as a tracking tool. Failed skill check after activating Oppression? Now you know where to send Victor next. It doesn’t get more straight forward than that. 


Closing thoughts. 

Twins are hard, and deserving of the difficulty advice label given in game. But this is more than just how they operate mechanically: both the challenge of accurately landing a pounce, and how punishing it can be for a single miss. It’s also because of how deeply complex their total kit is (comparatively speaking, against other killers). They’re a very rewarding killer once confidence is built around using everything at the Twins disposal at the appropriate times, and learning when to change gears to another of their many available strategies.

Post edited by TheClownIsKing on

Comments

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    It both concerns me, and saddens me that as a Twins main, as you claim you are, that you believe there is no winning against strong teams unless you snowball via slugging. I feel that’s very limiting.

    If that’s working for you, fine.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    Also, I can’t see how my suggestion to nerf their camping would hurt them that much.

    There are those accidental times Victor is near a hook because I’m immediately rushing off after someone as Charlotte, but intentionally placing Victor near a hook before picking up and hooking a survivor there is a bit scummy (in my personal opinion). It’s totally unnecessary to still win, and unnecessary in order to still adequately pressure the survivors a great deal.

  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 2,418

    I loved the Twins from the start, and play them pretty often. This is pretty accurate.

    I also agree the camping needs to be looked at, and is possibly one of the strongest things they can do but there is so much more potential.

    This was well put together and thought out, I even learned a few things. This man has got it.

    Appreciate your effort!

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 3,331

    I agree with OP and blame OhToFu and Dowsey for explaining why this killer is so strong. They’ve been a lot of fun for me the weeks leading up to Nemesis.

    You may hate reading this but they are one of the killers that most effectively use meta perks like Ruin as well. Being a passive perk, Victor can push survivors off objectives. Incapacitate survivors which means they can’t stop the Ruin regression. These kinds of synergies really push Twins up the tier list.

    My next challenge is designing a no regression build. If I can win consistently without regression perks, they will solidify in my top five.

  • TheClownIsKingTheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278

    I also said that if that style of play works for you, fine.

    I’m not looking to start fights here.

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 6,151

    They're not that strong. The time you waste switching to and from Victor is insane, especially after he downs someone or gets kicked. You should have seen how they played before their undeserved nerfs, because even then they were garbage, and are now far worse. And you get robbed of hits all the time with Victor, especially at windows and pallets which you're supposed to be able to hit survivors over, but can't consistently do anymore because of the nerfs.

  • danielmaster87danielmaster87 Member Posts: 6,151

    They were always C tier at best. You cannot afford to make a single mistake while playing this killer.

  • OmegaXIIOmegaXII Member Posts: 2,060

    The problem is, if survivors stay in group of 2, victor has no power. 0. Nothing you can do to counter this.

    Hit on healthy survivor? They kidnap your power or they just crush it and start doing gens.

    Down a injured survivor? Enjoy your 5 secs stun where survivors in radius of 20m can literally run in straight line to kick you. By the time you reach as victor or charlotte, that survivor is already up and running away.

    It’s such a pain to play as Twins.

  • ProductProduct Member Posts: 108

    Twins is terribly designed

    1) Because victor can't pick up and hook survivors, you literally HAVE to slug with him

    2) Victor is designed for camping. You can just leave victor next to a hooked survivor, and when killer instinct goes off, you can just hop back on victor and either down an injured survivor (which is more slugging yay), or completely delay the healthy survivor that came to unhook. You can then return to the hook and kill the other survivor.

    The sad part is that you are forced to play that way if you are going against good survivors. If you try to play a nice, fair game with twins against red rank swf, you are going to get completely ass-blasted.

    The killer is literally designed to camp and tunnel, and therefore, is terribly designed. Whether or not the killer feels like they are playing strategically, when a survivor is on a hook just watching victor face camp themselves at the same time charlotte downs someone across the map, it definitely doesn't feel like a well designed killer.

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