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Jill and Leon needs to be buffed

SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 2,976
edited June 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

There is not much about these two that are meta changing. Hardly seeing anyone use their perks because they are subpar in helping win. Blast Mine doesn't stop PGTW.  It's a minor 4 sec stun, killer proceeds to pop it anyway costing the survivor a lot of objective progress regardless. Killer still uses their perk. And if the killer has Ruin which is most likely the case, then the perk is completely useless, at least for most of the match. The effects of blast mine are negligible at best. Flash Bang is too difficult to use, requires extreme precision for a blind to the killer if at all, killers are countering it in matches by looking straight up into the sky. I have yet to see flash bang do anything useful in the game. Too easy to counter. Requires a SWF to use it. Why are the devs forcing the use of SWF to play the game? 

Killers are not at all concerned about blast mine and they are not worried about flash bang. Why does it have an audible cue so the killer can look away?

Why is counterforce so weak?  The totem glowing completely across the map is not much of a perk. Why can it not show all totems? Survivors already have to do two and three objectives when killer only has to do one. The killer is already totally changing the game in their favor with Ruin and probably Undying to make it that much harder.  Is it too much to ask for a perk to help counter it, well? There is too much protectionism for killers.

Blast Mine should prevent the killer from kicking it a second time, due to the explosion, or at a minimum disable PGTW and regression perks!  Flash bang should be easier to use, more effective and have longer lasting effects. The survivor meta is still mostly the same and nothing can stop the killer meta.

Comments

  • DoomedMindDoomedMind Member Posts: 793

    Yes, they're not strong

    But

    Hell they're fun to use (flashbang and blast mine, I don't have to say anything), Bite the Bullet + iron will counter Spirit (you make no noise, and Spirit players don't understand anything, niche, but you can use it !), Resurgence while playing solo is kind of useful, and in team with We'll make it, you're productive af.

  • DoritoHeadDoritoHead Member Posts: 3,336

    I'll entertain a Sluzzy post this time.

    -Blast Mine can actually win games sometimes since you can keep working on the gen while the killer is stunned. It's not fantastic, but it is fun and it has its moments.

    -Flashbang isn't that strong but it's my favorite perk because It's so damn fun. It can also be very good in certain situations.

    -Counterforce isn't meta-changing (My opinion) because of the Ruin/Pop combo, but it is the best way to get rid of totems by far.

    Why are the devs forcing the use of SWF to play the game?

    This is an actual good point and a question I myself want answered. Solo queue is in a pretty unacceptable state.

  • MoundshroudMoundshroud Member Posts: 4,460

    You feeling a dip in views Sluzzy? Gotta try and get back on your weird horse with more bait? :)

  • VESSELVESSEL Member Posts: 1,068

    Sluzzy is like the kitten that cuts your entire arm and almost your throat but you still love to bits

  • TheDarkTyrantTheDarkTyrant Member Posts: 1,997

    Ok now you are going in dangerous waters with mah Resident Enis.

  • Guest1567432Guest1567432 Member Posts: 728
    edited June 2021

    Is it really true Sluzzy has over 10K Nurse Blinks?

  • Zani22Zani22 Member Posts: 443

    If that's true im not a... Em uggh.. Let me skip that and try again sorry.

    If that's true then legion is British

  • WishIcouldmainWishIcouldmain Member Posts: 3,965

    Blast Mine can actually deny a PGTW however. If the killer reaches a gen when PGTW is about to run out the 4 seconds stun gives you time to get away and waste the PGTW/ Which is a huge turnaround. Yeah flashbang is a little hard to use but it's solid. All their perks currently have some good affects. Best to focus on older perks like Distortion or Sole Survivor.

  • gnehehegnehehe Member Posts: 307

    At least, new survivor perks are very fun ... and blast mine is definitely more fun and less risky than any head-on plays!

    However, I disagree with Counterforce. It is the best survivor perk designed for a long time: easy to use, no annoying requirement/condition/cooldown and it directly counters the killer meta and NOED killers.

    In theory, DetecHunch is better than Counterforce ... but I figured out that DetecHunch is useless in the worst case scenario: Ruin with Tinkerer, where finishing 1st generator can be very long. SmallGame is a nice alternative but it is underpowered on indoor maps with different floors.

    With some experience, you usually find 1 or 2 totems very quickly on all maps, so Counterforce is strong from the start of the game. And If you find another totem in the meantime, you do not even need to traverse the full map to get another cleansed totem and new aura reading: with some luck, you even find another totem location close to the previous one -> 4 found totems at this point.

    I played 99% my games with Counterforce since RE DLC release and these strong Ruin+Undying/Ruin+Pop/Devour+Undying or full hex builds still are present in more than half of my games.

    I never use hexes when I play killer ( #CorruptTeam, sometimes with an additional gen slowdown perk depending on played killer class) but I guess killers still have overall good use of their hex perks: hexes destroyed within 2mins being the minority of their game experience ... else they would just switch to other strong non-hexes alternatives ( #logic )

  • BranBran Member Posts: 1,470

    no reason counterforce should even be a perk anyways,

  • TDZ_LukeTDZ_Luke Member Posts: 78

    Just use different perks on them then lmao, survivors have plenty of meta perks to choose from. Not every perk that comes with a survivor needs to be meta you should know this by now. Besides I'd say that Flashbang and blast mine are solid perks as is. Flashbang is literally infinite and "Blast Mine should prevent the killer from kicking it a second time" really? it stuns the killer long enough for you to get away, and it wastes more time for the killer as they have to kick it twice, surely you'd want that right instead of the killer not being able to kick it a second time for a period of time, so instead allowing them more time to find you running away, rather than wasting their time with kicking it a second time.

  • STARS_truckSTARS_truck Member Posts: 74

    I like the idea of blast mine causing the gen to regress by 0% then normal regression so it can't be popped. Would actually feel like a counterplay perk. Blast mine should only really start counting down when the survivor that sets it leaves the generator.

    Counterforce is OK but Detective's hunch is Better as it is. Flashbang is a a bit of a meme. Jill's half health state perk after unhook (Resurgence) is ok. A moderate counter to sloppy/thana. Although inner strength is still the best for that

    I'd probably buff Resurgence so that you're at constant 25% health after a hit with the 50% bonus being after you are unhooked.

  • katerbaterkaterbater Member Posts: 117

    I am going to say that for the most part I disagree with your assessment. They are not meta-defining by any means; however, they are fun and have their niches. I think a slight buff wouldn't hurt, but let me address the points you made.

    Blast Mine

    It's a minor 4 sec stun, killer proceeds to pop it anyway costing the survivor a lot of objective progress regardless. Killer still uses their perk.

    First, have you played against it as a killer? Even as a survivor main, I have played against it and can say that the 4 second stun is not "minor." It allows the survivor to gain a ton of distance on the killer--especially if they proceed to kick it a second time to get value out of pop. By the time they finish doing that and try to track you, your teammates have probably been making progress on other gens/getting the save, plus you have gotten a not-insignificant head start on the next chase to distract the killer. Pop already takes the killer a little out of their way to kick a gen instead of starting another chase; imagine having to kick the gen only to be stunned for 4 seconds and have to kick it again.

    Second, it is incredibly unfair for one side's perk to completely make the other side's unusable. That is the definition of imbalance. But wait, you may argue, what about Stridor? It makes Iron Will unusable, right? No, it doesn't. Your cries are still much quieter than if you weren't using Iron Will. Without Iron Will, Stridor would make you even louder; thus, you still get use out of your perk. The mindset that a perk, whether on the survivor or killer side, should make another perk completely unusable at all is, quite frankly, a sense of entitlement. Why do you think they made it so Saboteur no longer works on Trapper's traps? That's completely one-sided and unbalanced.

    And if the killer has Ruin which is most likely the case, then the perk is completely useless, at least for most of the match.

    This is just the gamble that you take with any perk you run. Not every single perk is meta, but they have their niches. You may get minimal use out of lots of perks, even the ones that are considered meta. For example:

    • Adrenaline / Hope: if the last gen isn't completed
    • Any Means Necessary: if killer breaks pallets immediately
    • Decisive Strike: if the killer doesn't tunnel / refuses to when you try to take aggro
    • Deliverance: you get found first / don't get a safe unhook before being hooked
    • Unbreakable / Soul Guard: if killer doesn't slug
    • Healing perks: useless against Plague
    • AND MANY MORE


    Flash Bang

    Flash Bang is too difficult to use, requires extreme precision for a blind to the killer if at all, killers are countering it in matches by looking straight up into the sky.

    It's precisely its difficulty that makes it so you can get multiple per match. If it were easier to get the stun, it would be too powerful. IF they were to buff it to work even if they aren't facing it, they would have to nerf it to only one can be crafted per match. I am fine with it either way. But to say that it is useless because killers aren't worried about it is too much. Skilled survivors do successfully make use of this perk. It takes practice, but when you get the timing down, it is incredibly rewarding. I don't think it should be so easy to use that it's too powerful.


    Counterforce

    Why is counterforce so weak? The totem glowing completely across the map is not much of a perk. Why can it not show all totems? Survivors already have to do two and three objectives when killer only has to do one.

    I will correct you on this point: survivors only have ONE objective: to do gens. You can escape without ever having to touch a totem or open a chest. You cannot do all the totems and open all the chests and expect to escape; gens are the only thing that matters for escape. Totems are optional. They become less optional when Hexes are used; however, it is possible to win without cleansing, and you can cleanse all 5 totems in the match and still die because you spent time doing that instead of doing gens. So to call it a second objective is blatantly wrong.

    Let me explain why Counterforce is designed the way it is. The speed boost to cleansing is incredibly good. Balancing a perk so that it is not OP is a give and take. Because you get an amazing speed increase, it should take you more time to get to the next totem. It makes sense that it shows you the totem farthest from you because if it showed you all totems, you could get them out way too quickly, especially with the stacking speed boost. The only way I can see showing all totems making sense, is if it were a flat speed increase not a stacking one as you cleanse.

    Overall, yes the meta should change, but I'm certain negating killer perks is not the way to do it.

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