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Dead hard is the literal definition of a Crutch Perk

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  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,226

    It is not what crutch perk is. crutch perk is perk that a player relies on and without the perk, he is significantly at disadvantage. it has nothing to do with failure or how difficult it is to use. It has everything to do with whether the survivor player relies on it to be successful.

    For example, say you have trouble finding pallets and you often run into dead zones, Window of opportunity would be crutch perk for you because it eliminates your weakness as a survivor. I would never use it because I have memorized every layout of every map by heart, but some survivors need that pallet aura reading.

    Dead hard is a exhaustion perk that allows you to greed loops and push the loops to their limit. a survivor typical objective is to bluff/vault windows until they are fully blocked before using strong pallets however bluffing/vaulting windows has inherent risks associated with it and Dead hard eliminates the risk and allows survivors to greed loops without the risk using its dash component and in some instances, the Iframe component(like dodging a hatchet or dead hard through a trapper trap etc.).

    Pushing loops to their limit without dead hard is difficult so for most survivors, its crutch perk because greatly improves their performance in a chase.

    The PTB has weakened version of dead hard where they lowered dash distance and Iframes, I wonder if that is going live due to threads like this. it was not even written in the patch notes.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Alright mate, please do not act like you do not know what you just said, makes absolutely zero sense. This might be one of the worst comparisons i have ever seen in this forum. I cannot fathom how some people say stuff like this without feeling ridiculous.

  • BuddhaBingBuddhaBing Member Posts: 248

    That's not a what a crutch is at all. A crutch is something that makes a weak player better, but a strong player worse. Like how a crutch will help an injured person move around more quickly, but just be cumbersome to a healthy person.

    Imagine an FPS that had a gun that aimed for you, but did 20% less damage. This would be a crutch because people who could aim well would be much better off with the normal gun with more damage, but newer players would benefit greatly from the autoaim.

    Something that's strong in general isn't a crutch. Imagine that FPS had a gun that aimed for you, but did 20% MORE damage. Now it obviously still helps the weaker players a lot, but the stronger players will use it too because it's objectively good. Since it doesn't impair the stronger players, it's not a crutch.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    You're telling me this after saying Dead Hard is a second health state... The irony is real.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Because in the situation that we are discussing here it is... it is not even that hard to understand. DH is turning a SAFE hit into an extended chase, without anything the killer can do. Its EXACTLY like a styptic agent would be in this situation or like already stated a 3rd health state. The consequences are exactly the same. Simply whiffing is a complete different situation. Thats on the killer, that happens due to interaction. Thats not the case with DH, because there is nothing the killer can do in loops. But of course you have to resolve to complete nonsense comparisons because you do not understand that. Thats typical and considering there are too many streamers using the same method of arguing, it is no surprise.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    So whiffing an attack on a survivor successfully using Dead Hard is entirely different than whiffing an attack on a survivor successfully using a window or pallet.

  • katoptriskatoptris Member Posts: 2,476

    I can't dead any harder

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,613

    the Exhaustion Perks come with huge cooldowns and restrictions, its hardly worth to ever use a Perk slot for them, unless you center your entire build around them - and even then, you are going to lack at some other aspect of the game and will lose to that. give me more perk slots / buff those perks to a level where they are worth running and i'll bring them more often.

    you are correct about the Exhaustion Add Ons, but think about it: how many Killers have access to those? thats like 3 out of 24 Killers. which means everyone who doesnt have them gets screwed again.

    and the Killer list you gave hardly has anyone that actually counters the Perk. and even if, what about everyone else?

    Deathslinger isnt a valid point, ive had plenty people react to my close range shots with DH to dodge them.

    PH would require you to run in a straight line in the perfect distance towards him to have his PotD work, thats extremely situational at best.

    same applies to Demo, which, btw, additionally has its shred cancelled when it hits a Survivor, so DH still lets them get away without taking damage with the Demo either jumping through them or the shred getting cancelled.

    Doctor is not going to shock you in the loop he thinks he is gonna land a hit, so DH to a pallet once again saves you - some even use it to dodge the incomming shock and bring the pallet between them and the Killer. it still works fine.

    a survivor can just DH straight through a hag who just teleported to her trap to hit them. "just have multiple traps around" is abotut the same level of an argument as "just dont get hit" or "just catch the survivor in a deadzone so they cant DH to safety".

  • HollowsGriefHollowsGrief Member Posts: 1,497

    I love the people here trying to underplay DH's strength, it's actually pretty comical people are defending the legit strongest perk in the game for either side. A third health state every single chase is totally fair and balanced for a game that is balanced around you having only 2 health states.

    I use DH all the time, in fact it's the one perk on survivor that I never replace, EVER, wanna know why? Because it's busted af and has no counter at all. I press E and you lose the chase, ggez get dunked on nerd. This perk is busted af and absolutely needs a total rework. On demand distance AND iframes? Bruh you have got to be kidding me, the only people who defend this perk are fools and liars.

  • Killing_TimeKilling_Time Member Posts: 641

    Remove bloodlust and pretty much all no mobility killers will suffer even more than they do already in a chase. We saw how that worked when they disabled it.

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    Exept you can deny the perk by cleansing totem but for DH its a different story unless the survivor run in a dead zone

  • stvnhthrstvnhthr Member Posts: 624

    Killers run Deadhard, balanced landing, etc. by default. The killer already has super versions of most of the survivors perks. The game by design is supposed to be hopeless for the survirors (I know, except for that small 1% who are streaming swf games.) Don't begrudge survivors the few perks which actually work. Killers perks are game changers, survivors perks are meh at best and most are garbage space wasters no one equips. The Devs designed it this way on purpose, or they are really bad at balancing a game. Any killer main who whines is weak as a player.

    I get motion sickness in first person games, I get dizzy and feel like I'm going to be sick but I can always get a 3k and usually a 4k if I want. I am the worse type of player for killer and I can do it with ease.

  • NeamyNeamy Member Posts: 351

    If it wasn't used for speed, and just to dodge hits, it should stagger killer for an extra second past his normal miss swing

  • nursewannabenursewannabe Member Posts: 1,075
  • MadmegMainMadmegMain Member Posts: 105

    If otz truly struggles against dead hard than I would say he’s not a good killer. Watch people like monto play killer, ive yet to see him ever have a problem with dead hard.

    its the easiest perk to counter and as for ditsnce its a huge lol. It doesnt give any distance compared to other exhaustion perks

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    No but in a loop the I frames make it uncounterable.

    Does this mean if you brute force the loops you won't eventually get them? No.

    But it's the fact that one button has reset the loop.

    Otz doesn't struggle against it, but he does get massively affected by a good dead hard. It can even force him to leave chase because it's not worth the extra 30s to down someone a that point.

    And if you think it's the "easiest perk to counter"- then please answer this scenario.

    You, the killer, are chasing an injured survivor towards an LT wall. Realistically, you should be able to hit him. However, you know he has dead hard due to an earlier chase. So you have to options:

    1)bait dead hard. He dead hards and reaches the window.

    2) don't bait dead hard and he dead hards and reaches the window.

    What counterplay is there? I'd love to know.

    If monto Tells you there's counterplay, maybe he's either psychic, or just not going against people who know how to use it?

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    How are I frames alone a meme perk.

    If I had a button which said (you cannot be hit for X amount of time) then that wouldnt be some meme perk.

    If dead hard gave you no dash but I frames for 3s then it still isn't a meme perk.

    Also Otz doesn't "struggle" against it, but he also can't counter it. Walking away isn't a counter. It's the smart play. But not a counter. A think you need to get that fundamental in your head. It has no counterplay. You can do other things to make it less impactful (leaving chase ect.) But can't counter it.

  • Ghost077Ghost077 Member Posts: 1,207

    DH was not a problem for me before. But then they nerfed a lot of antigenrush perks. And now, a simple push of a button can extend chase by another half a minute. That with current speed of gens repairing can be critical. Thus, its importance has increased greatly. And yes, I totally agree, it's very silly that all mind games and survivor mistakes can be fixed with a simple push of a button.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,545

    By this logic, every perk is a crutch perk. At which point the term 'crutch perk' has no meaning.

  • ilovedbd123ilovedbd123 Member Posts: 1,946

    A is kind a useless in this scenarios as you usually only get 1 per chase.

    B that seems fair, or make some sort of requirement (e.g the killer has been chasing you for X amount of time).

    C) maybe make it so you slow vault if using it for X seconds. Or your fatigued (slower) for like 5-20s and buff its power accordingly.

  • EvilhorstEvilhorst Member Posts: 103

    Why can't exhaustion perks just deactivate after certain amount of uses?

  • IMhereRUNIMhereRUN Member Posts: 605

    I’m pretty sure we all knew it was a crutch perk already 🤪🤪

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 2,226

    yes every perk could be a crutch perk but it depends on a player weaknesses. The title of this thread is misleading.

    The title should be: Dead Hard is the definition of second chance perk.

    I do not personally mind the perk.... but I do think the perk is very unfair for every killer bar nurse and spirit because killers get very few chances to hit survivors at loops on strong survivor maps and since this perk eliminates very few errors that a good survivor makes, it makes that survivor almost untouchable at strong loops and taking a chase with them with weaker killer is pretty much 100% losing. I think if you get many chances to outplay the survivor, like instead of 1 chance to hit a survivor every 20 seconds, you get 3 chances every 20 secnds(like once chance every single time nurse has blinks up) than the perk isn't so bad, even if you miss one blink due to dead hard, you get a chance to redeem it in next few seconds.... but for other killers, they miss one oppornity to down a survivor and this perk save them, the chase can be extended by a lot and it is often game losing.

    moral of the story, super fun survivor perk, very unfair for killer.

  • AgentTalonAgentTalon Member Posts: 331
    edited July 2021

    Any word on if the PTB changes to DH are making it live?

  • Torsti56Torsti56 Member Posts: 259

    How about just play like you handle LT walls. Let them just Dead Hard there and vault. There's no more Dead Hard left to use and should be easy down. If LT wall is your problem, bring Bamboozle.

    You told one scenario where Dead Hard actually works well, other scenarios are making to a pallet with it or making to an window with it. There is 3 places where Dead Hard actually works. Without those it's useless and you will be downed no matter what.

    Are we next gonna complain about hope? "You, the killer, are chasing survivor towards an LT wall, and that survivor makes it because he have that 5% haste bonus. Nerf Hope devs".

    It's just your problem if Dead Hard to an LT wall is too much an issue to you. I'll rather take that Dead Hard to and LT wall than Lithe from a window which makes 10x bigger distance between you and that survivor.

    Well, I guess someone is coming to call me survivor main after this.

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