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Does it count as sandbagging/working with the killer?

JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440
edited August 2021 in General Discussions

A lot of games I had as a soloQ survivor end up with the new kind of hatch standoff, where just two survivors remain with several gens to do and wait for each other's death to get the hatch. So most of the times I'm the one who stays alive, find the hatch and wait for the teammate's death while he is on hook, since saving him is suicidal at this moment and will just lead to 4k instead of 3k. And always, I mean all the time that one person on hook just refuses to die, even though I signal him about finding the hatch. He will just stay there as long as possible so that the Killer can find the hatch too and not let me escape. I wonder, does it pass under the definition of working with the killer and can I report these selfish trolls? I mean, there is no chance for 2 survivors to escape in such a game, it's 100% a hatch game, and by giving the killer more time to deal with the other teammates they intentionally make a 3k game into a 4k game, thus gifting the killer extra kill.

Sometimes the killer leaves them on the ground to sweat for 4k, and they start crawling to me to reveal my location to the killer. Does this also count as "working with the killer"? Because it certainly looks like it.

Post edited by Junylar on

Comments

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    Well, I guess I'll have to continue reporting them hoping for the best?

  • VioletCrimesVioletCrimes Member Posts: 870

    I wouldn’t necessarily think it counts because they may just be trying to get to you so you can get them up. It’d be hard to prove intent.

  • jaredlxxiiijaredlxxiii Member Posts: 613

    As several have pointed out if a survivor is deadly wounded and recovered as far as they can it tells them to find help. That help has to come from other survivors and if If you are the only survivor left then you would be the one to help them. As such it reasonable for them to crawl towards you.

    It's odd that you would even think that was reportable.

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    Have you experienced one game where two players remained with gens left to repair, and where BOTH survivors eventually escaped? Just one such game? I don't think you are familiar how the game works. It's always either 3k or 4k, and both players' actions affect which it will be.

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    You completely ignored what I said in OP. It's impossible for both survivors to escape at this point, and saving will just let the killer know where both survivors are, so that he can kill both. It will always lead to 4k, unless of course you count on killer giving you hatch. The only chance for 3k (2k is impossible) is one survivor escaping through the hatch, and to achieve that the other one has to die. So denying one escape to the team and giving the killer full 4k just to "retaliate" your teammate for being more lucky is one of the most selfish things in this game. You think in egoistic "I escape or I die" pattern, not in "my team can achieve one escape instead of none".

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    Ok, let's try again. What happens if I actually go for the unhook and save the teammate? Now the killer knows where both of us are and he kills us both. It's a guaranteed 4k. Or, we just recycle to the same situation where one survivor is on hook and the other one is free. So it's either the same kind of situation all over again, but one hook state less, or 4k, ie the lowest kind of loss for survivors. 2 escapes are not possible without keys, we don't consider those.

    What happens if the hooked one actually dies early, or the slugged one does not lead the killer to the remaining survivor? Well, now there is a fair chance of one escape.

    You see? 0 escapes vs 1 escape. Which is better for the team? Your problem is that you don't think about the team at all, you think only about your own personal escape, while I'm trying to explain it from the team's point of view. For the team as a whole it's much better to get one escape instead of no escapes, and you are leading the game to sure 0 escape end, thus working against your team and actually cooperating with the killer, giving him a major victory of 4k instead of "petty victory" with 3k. Therefore the one who is refusing to die in this scenario is the selfish one, who puts his own interests above his team's.

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    Well, I guess you just don't understand the point I'm trying to make. As simple as I try to explain, you still completely miss the point and keep repeating the same thing. If you think a hatch escape can't be better for survivors than 4k, then there is not much to discuss. Your point of view is that of a single survivor, mine is that of a whole team, that's the core difference.


    Was that against a potato killer who didn't patrol the gens? Really, is there any actual footage of such a game? I'd like to see it myself, because I've never seen anything similar in a real game.

  • Jeromy137Jeromy137 Member Posts: 153

    I have had games where I wait trying to get to a gen even though it is only 2 people left and the other thinks I am waiting on the hatch.

    They then purposely get the killer involved to kill me it is people like you who have caused that mentality and why I don't trust Feng mins or Megs.

  • ChiSoxFan11ChiSoxFan11 Member Posts: 881

    How is your viewpoint of your entire team? Your whole argument is that someone else should die so you can get a hatch, rather than make any attempt to save them. Do you honestly think that your fellow teammates -- especially if you're all solos -- are somehow viewing their game as a "win" while they're hanging on a hook watching you teabag at them at a distance to tell them to die already so you can escape, or is it more likely that they're cursing you under their breath wondering why you're not attempting a rescue?

    You say that a hatch escape is better for the "survivors" -- note your use of the plural. It's not -- it's better for the singular survivor -- in your examples in your first post, that's YOU -- who's getting the hatch, not for everyone else who is dying in order for that to happen.

    If the killer is actively looking for you while your teammate is down or hooked, and they've left the area of the hook/slug, you have the opportunity to rescue them, but you want them to just die so you can escape. If you rescue and if that killer isn't camping, by the time they go back to the hook, you and your rescuer could easily go in separate directions -- the killer can't chase you both if you do that. YOU could lead the killer as far away from the hatch as possible, sacrificing yourself so that the teammate you rescue gets the hatch instead of you (a hatch that, if you've "signaled" them as you said, they'll know too where it's located at then). Would you make that sacrifice, giving up an escape so that your teammate got it instead? The "team" by your definition is still getting a win -- is that something you would actually do? You've equated YOUR escape as a win for your team, when in reality, it shouldn't matter which member of the team escapes to separate that 3K from that 4K, but judging how you view the actions of the teammates who falsely believe you'll actually be willing to help them -- your thinking they're worthy of a wasted report for "working with the killer" for their simply wanting their teammates to be altruistic -- my guess is that such a sacrifice wouldn't be in your plans.

    You also make the assumption that a rescue is impossible when only two survivors are left and that a 4K is inevitable -- that's a complete falsehood. If the killer is camping, then I could buy that. But if they're not and you're actually smart about trying to make a rescue, or if someone is running Iron Will, or if someone is good at looping the killer, or if the killer has wandered far enough from the hook, then the 4K is far from inevitable. My friend and I -- as just a two person SWF group -- played recently against a Rank 1 Demo. We were the last 2, he had a key. At various points, I was slugged then hooked, then he was slugged -- the Demo left both times to look for the other one of us. My friend with the key could have abandoned me to look for hatch and gotten an easy escape, but he came and got the rescue for me. I found the hatch when my teammate was downed afterwards -- instead of letting him die and camping the hatch, I waited the Demo out until he left my friend he'd slugged to look for me, then picked him up off of the ground, and we BOTH got safely through the hatch. Amazing what can happen when you don't abandon your teammates, no?

  • jaredlxxiiijaredlxxiii Member Posts: 613

    We understand your saying. No matter how you try and re word it what your describing isn't working with the killer and is misusing the reporting system.

    As for survivors escaping by doing gens when 2 survivors left I have seen it happen many times. Their are many of them YouTube to watch. Perhaps the reason you have never seen it is because you are selfishly hiding by the hatch instead of helping the other survivor.

  • Chaos_BrotherChaos_Brother Member Posts: 249

    Funny thing is that the reason I decided to join the DBD forums back on the 4th of July was because I had this exact same thing happen and my very first post was about this very issue. Many people claimed they never experience this but you're right, it is all too prevalent. I have lost count of how many times it has happened.

    This was my post:

    This game mechanic is hurting solo queue survivors.

    In my 1700 hours of DBD (strictly solo queue, about half killer half survivor) I have encountered this issue many times.

    Anyone with significant solo queue time will know where I am coming from.

    The killer will slug the second last survivor to catch the last survivor, or in more severe cases they won’t even slug and just let the second last survivor go to track down the last survivor, then either give the second last survivor hatch or kill them anyway for the 4k.

    The mechanic I am speaking of is the aura reading ability of survivors whilst being carried by the killer; a map wide ‘bond’. Since the solo queue survivors often don’t know each other, the second last found survivor will nearly always decide to side with the killer that does this in a heartbeat, in hopes that the killer will give hatch or gate.

    I myself will sometimes slug the second last survivor to find hatch or if it is 3 or more Gens left, just hook the second last survivor to give the last survivor a chance at hatch or gate game, which in turn offers a more rewarding 4k if you manage it. But the severe example I speak of is all too prevalent in solo queue lobbies. 2 in every 5 killers will do this ‘teaming with second last’ when it comes down to the scenario which I speak of.

    The reason I am making this post is because I would like the game to be more solo queue friendly, and I think the map wide bond while being carried by the killer is too powerful and exploitable. I won’t make a concrete suggestion to fix this such as ‘take away map wide bond while being carried by the killer for the last 2 survivors in a trial’ which would ultimately fall under much scrutiny as I’m sure this is a contentious issue, but I feel something should be done about what I personally consider to be a dirty tactic to earn the 4k.

    I’ll pre-emptively anticipate counter arguments such as ''it is your fault for being in that situation in the first place for not completing your objective in time” or “You just need to hide better” or “Just do gens” or any other opinions you can all can muster up. Ultimately this is something that is just plain wrong, it is essentially the killer working with the survivor.

    I love playing DBD on the Xbox series X and have absolutely no performance issues whatsoever. It is one of my favorite games currently and I am looking forward to many great updates in the future. Loving the 5th anniversary event and I have collected every survivor and killer crown.

    All the best,

    Chaos Brother"

  • ZaroktheImmortalZaroktheImmortal Member Posts: 326

    No, not dying on hook is not working with the killer you're the one expecting him to die so you can get out. He could be hoping for a save.

  • JunylarJunylar Member Posts: 1,440

    I my 600 hours in the game I've tried helping the other survivor enough times to learn it just doesn't work. I described what happens in this case two times or more in this thread already. Until I see actual footage of two survivors with untouched gens escaping from a competent killer - I won't believe it. If "there are many of them on youtube" - it won't be a problem to find one. Yes, I also achieved two escapes in this situation once or twice, but only after rank reset, when I played against a killer who doesn't even know how to kick gens and break pallets. If the killer actually patrols the gens - 80 seconds is not enough for just two survivor finish all the gens. One of them will eventually be caught before the gen is done, and we return to the situation described in OP.


    I had a similar suggestion back in the day: downed survivors don't even need this aura reading ability: their teammates need to see them, not the other way around. I also suggested introducing the option to disable spectating on self, because I was intentionally sandbagged by SWFs with this, where the other remaining survivor used info from his dead friend to literally lead the killer to me (he was not downed and didn't have bond, they admitted in the chat they did it on purpose to get the hatch). Alas, DbD community is in such a state that the most fearsome enemy of a soloQ survivor is not the killer, but another soloQ survivor. The amount of people defending the idea of leading the killer to a teammate to get "a fair 4k" in this thread is depressing.

  • Chaos_BrotherChaos_Brother Member Posts: 249

    Might help to bring the Elodie build (plunderer's/Appraisal) so you have a good chance of getting a key. If you can get it down to 2 gens left, then the Hatch will spawn with only 2 Survivors remaining. It's fun to try here and there but I don't use it often.

     

    It's the best feeling when the 2nd last gets slugged, the killer goes looking for you but there you are on top of hatch with a key, ready to escape whatever teabagging and nodding awaited.

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 1,395

    When I get down to cursed 2-survivor situations, I accept that we're going to lose, and I trade unhooks with the other survivor until the unluckiest one of us hits three hooks and dies. It almost always ends with one of us escaping -- no hatch camping necessary, and everyone gets more points than they would have if we stopped playing as soon as we knew we were going to lose. We continue to be a team until fate decides which one of us gets eliminated.

    I get that some people don't want to do that, and I don't necessarily blame them if they camp the hatch instead of playing out the loss, but, IMO, that's them choosing to no longer be a team with me, so I don't feel obligated to help them escape.

  • JediWithASniperJediWithASniper Member Posts: 640

    First off, I’ve escaped lots of times with 2 people left.

    Second, there are a lot of other factors in play than just you finding hatch. Was the other player a do-nothing, or were they carrying the team?

    if I’ve been carrying, and get first-hooked, I’m not killing myself for you. If you’ve been doing nothing all match, then I always hope the killer does find you.

    My experience is that if a player is good, and the hooked player is good, they will suicide. If however any of these other factors come into play, all bets are off.

    Also, skill of the killer is a major factor. Two good players can beat a lot of killers. If the killer is bad, and you expect hatch, you aren’t paying attention.

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