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People who say dead hard has no counter…



  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 6,555

    Yes - The issues are so endemic that the game has been saddled with the burden of continuous growth since Beta.

    Given that this was their most successful year in terms of player count (and most likely financially) 5 years into the game, perhaps you should drop off a resume and show them what they're doing wrong/how it's done.

    Better still, why not fire off a resume to one of the companies that attempted to compete and folded like a sheet of paper?

    I am sure your insight and input, as well as your stellar attitude, will be valuable assets :3

  • BadMrFrostyBadMrFrosty Member Posts: 1,100
    edited August 2021

    This isn't about me, so I'd ask that you keep it on the topic, thanks. Going to a common fallacy (appeal to accomplishment, specifically) isn't going to make your point look good. My point still stands, that 5 years after this game has come out, it still has an insane number of glaring issues that are known about and not being addressed. Or, if I were to give the benefit of the doubt, they're being addressed at a snail's pace. With all the success you claim BVHR has had, especially this year, you'd think those resources could go into hiring more people for Q/A, programming, or something else that could add additional value to the game's long term health.

    However, rather than acknowledging my argument, you've instead decided to deflect my criticism by saying "Oh but the game is showing growth, so clearly what you're saying doesn't hold water. Why don't you apply and do better?" Yeah, that's not going to work here.

  • Marc_go_soloMarc_go_solo Member Posts: 2,778

    There are perkless ways to counter both, which have worked well for me.

    For Dead Hard, if I suspect they have it, I will bait them and get them to force the Dead Hard. After the initial burst, they have a period where they are slower (however brief) before returning to the normal 4.0m/s. So, forcing it allows the killer to still keep close and will secure that hit in most cases I've forced them. Otherwise, Dead Hard gives a brief boost to get to a pallet, which is just a good way to get to protection sooner.

    For Tinkerer, there are a few examples: If you are watching the rate of the gen and it gets to about 70%, and the sound of the killer's terror radius suddenly dips, then that's a very clear sign to be aware. Beyond that, using eyes and ears is always useful, and putting yourself by the side of the gen with the best view around you is necessary. Also, like Myers in Tier 1, killers will be making some sort of sound when almost on you, and although it is tight, a good ear may get you out of harm's way.

    Anyway, those 2 perks have counters even without taking into account perks like Spine Chill, Perception and Coupe de Grace. They're tried and tested ways of countering both perks.

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 6,555
    edited August 2021

    I'm fairly certain that I imply in my first sentence that the issues you feel are pressing or endemic aren't seen as such by a majority, and also touch on the fact that any competition has swiftly died, which is totally strange when going up against a game that's apparently going to die if 'competition' looks its way.

    I most likely could have used a better framing device, for sure.

    I don't need to argue with you or prove anything, given the reality of the situation and state/popularity of the game.

    Edited to add - In the interest of complete transparency, I do think that their previous gen optimization issues should be a larger priority.

  • BadMrFrostyBadMrFrosty Member Posts: 1,100

    Alright, that tells me what I need to know. Have a good day.

  • GrimoireWeissGrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,182

    Perks aren't supposed to be counterable, I honestly don't have a problem with neither. Tinkerer imo was a bit overbuffed, but it's not impossible to deal with, same with Dead Hard.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    How am I going to communicate that strategy to my solo queue teammates? Why are people only ever looking at the game from SWF POV, so annoying.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    Not what I said at all. I make a completely fair comparison and suddenly because it doesn’t agree with your opinion, I’m just a troll account. Seriously, why is it so controversial to say anything is too strong on the killer side? But it’s complete consensus to say SWF is OP, half the killers need a buff, etc. This sub is so blatantly killer sided, which is very strange as much more people play survivor.

  • NomiNomadNomiNomad Member Posts: 2,746

    I'd be very fine with deleting both these perks, thanks.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    Already disproven. Perceptive killers will know when someone has spine chill, look at Otz, and be able to counter it.

  • PalletsAndHooksPalletsAndHooks Member Posts: 989

    Tinkerer counters: spine chill, being mindful of timing/progress (coupled with blast mine)

    Dead hard counters: instadowns, locker grabs, baiting

  • MsterflexMsterflex Member Posts: 126

    You did t think this one through friend. Spinchill and depending on gen location your own eyes can counter tinkerer

  • Kira15233Kira15233 Member Posts: 473

    Dead Hard obviously has counters, Servers and walls 🤣

  • MigrantTheGreatMigrantTheGreat Member Posts: 1,291

    Tinkerer - Be Vigalente

    BBQ - Get out of range or hide in a locker

    Dead Hard - Bait it out

    Dead Hard (for distance) - No counter

    I don't think DH needs to be nerfed, I think it needs a risk factor.

  • DeliciousFoodDeliciousFood Member Posts: 457

    It has no counter, that's why despite all its jank and awful results at times, it's probably the most popular exhaustion perk. You cannot counter a good survivor using dead hard to extend a loop or chain another loop because even with coup, they'll likely just use it to reach a pallet and give you a delicious taste of hit validation.

    The issue with dead hard is that it can have WAY too much impact for ONE perk. It can turn one survivor into a complete game changer and deny the killer the momentum they need and probably earned if they pushed the survivor to using it. 30 extra seconds (varies of course) is MASSIVE in the grand scheme of things. Now, consider this on 3 or 4 survivors, which is ABUNDANTLY common in red rank queues. You suddenly have survivors that ALL have the potential to extend chase by a fair amount that you likely can't even counter. Even with coup, you only have 5 stacks that you MUST make count, and let's face it, you're not always in a position too, let alone some stacks being consumed despite not even going for a lunge, or needing it to get a first hit quickly.

    It isn't the same with sprint burst where you can cut off but also needs to be forcibly triggered at the start of the chase. It's strong, and some would say stronger than dead hard, but I find it much more manageable when you're experienced at the game than dead hard used by good players.

    Also coup ######### sucks why would you ever run it even on a chill, no-slowdown build? It's jank and can only be used five times, and that's if you're struggling lol.

    What to do with dead hard? I think it should be reworked in a way that it's no longer a 'Press E to extend chase' and moreso a 'dodge' that's more consistent than what it is now. No distance gained but the killer whiffing can go a long way.

  • baseballfan4877baseballfan4877 Member Posts: 364

    bad bait thread

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,248
  • ZaroktheImmortalZaroktheImmortal Member Posts: 326

    Dead hard needs very specific timing to be used right either when the killer is about to slash or if you need to make it to a pallet or vault point. Used at the wrong time and it doesn't help you at all.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    You didn’t read the thread when I addressed this 20 times

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    Why can I 4k at red ranks reliably as a ######### killer then? I wonder if some people on here even play the game

  • DCh4rlieDCh4rlie Member Posts: 62

    Though all three perks are different. Yes, I do want all three of those nerfed/changed.

    Funny of you to assume ppl don't want to. :)

  • ZaroktheImmortalZaroktheImmortal Member Posts: 326

    People should also remember you literally only get one chance to use dead hard in a chase and that's when you're already injured. It's not an infinite use ability that gets you away from killers it gives you a short boost which if timed right may dodge a killers strike or get you to a pallet drop point or a vault spot but that's about it.

  • WexlerWendigoWexlerWendigo Member Posts: 1,867

    Judging by the rest of the thread, I’d say I was right considering how angry they got! I’m fine with them all being nerfed, I use none regardless.

  • MarigoriaMarigoria Member Posts: 5,661

    A better example would be bamboozle. There is no counter to it, yet no one complains about it.

    Almost like perks are supposed to give you an advantage, like DH and Bamboozle do....

  • DCh4rlieDCh4rlie Member Posts: 62

    Don't forget the fact that this is the forum and ppl in here only represent one part of the commuity.

    I know that ppl with your/my opinion are rare, though they do exist.

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