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Had an idea that adresses both gen speeds and tunneling/camping

SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,495
edited August 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

just came up with this and i want to hear you people's oppinion before i actualy suggest it in feedback

It's bassicly to reward getting multiple hooks more and give survivors a fighting chance when someone dies early

Everytime a survivor is hooked they recieve a penalty to repair speed

For the first hook it's a 15% repair penalty, after the second hook this increases to 20%

Some notes

this only happens on actual hooking/caging, going from 1st to 2nd stage without getting unhooked means the penalty stays 15%

The first penalty is much higher then the second one to reward the killers who spread their hooks out

Whenever a survivor dies, the other survivors get a boost to repair speed

When the first survivor dies all other survivors get a 33% bonus to repair speed, after the second one it increases to 66% to then finaly increase to 100% for the last survivor

Some notes

This means that quickly killing a survivor won't have as much of an impact as before as the number of charges/second the survivors can do roughly remains the same (4 survivors can do 4 charges a second on sepperate gens, 3 survivors with the buff 3.99 charges a second. When one is chased 4 survivors do 3 charges a second and with the buff 2 survivors do 2.66 charges a second.) it only starts being a real advantage to the killer after 2 people died

What do you people think of this? Would this be good? any balance issues or ways to exploit it that i missed?

Post edited by Rizzo on

Comments

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    Hell yeah im getting my ass kill if i play in a swf asap so my friend can finish the game 18% faster and im going to be the toxic survivor who t bag and click at you and body block your killer ass with no mither. This is a really bad idea and i can already abuse this and im far from being a good survivor

  • PilotPilot Member Posts: 1,158
    edited August 2021

    Have u also took into consideration these perks when u came with the giant 15-20% penalties to speed?

    • Thanatophobia
    • Dying Light
    • Pop
    • Ruin + Undying

    And their respective killers? Aka the ones who use them the most.

    Someone dying early would give the survivors a 33% increase in gen speed... Wouldn't that be punishing for the killer & would make the 15-20% penalty to repair obsolete?

    I have won 3v1 scenarios at 4 gens before, all you need is some good teammates & cooperation, even though it's quite rare.

    The last survivor getting 100% speed to gen speed is extremely pointless as both him and the killer would be looking for the hatch.

    This means that quickly killing a survivor won't have as much of an impact as before as the number of charges/second the survivors can do roughly remains the same (4 survivors can do 4 charges a second on sepperate gens, 3 survivors with the buff 3.99 charges a second. When one is chased 4 survivors do 3 charges a second and with the buff 2 survivors do 2.66 charges a second.) it only starts being a real advantage to the killer after 2 people died

    Toolboxes & Prove Thyself exist.

    Your 1st idea would promote a lot of slugging... You hook one, down the other, look for more. That way you make sure not all of them are dead and you keep them either on 1st or 2nd hook whilst ur getting stacks of Thana & Dying Light for example. Then after 20 minutes have passed and only 1 gen have popped you'll finally have them all on death hook with the max stacks from Dying Light & Thana on top. Not to mention if u down them, from the amount of slugging u did, they'll just drop dead. 10/10 would play.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,525

    What in the lawd almighty? I know Behavior loves their survivor mains, but this would be extreme even for them. No.

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,229

    Quickly killing one Survivor would still be the best thing to do. Reducing the game to a 3v1 early will always be the win for the Killer (unless the other 3 Survivors are way more skilled than the Killer). Because if you can actually apply pressure, this means that you most of the time will have 1 Survivor hooked, 1 in Chase and 1 going for the Unhook. It does not matter that the Survivors have 33% Repair Buff, if they cannot do a Gen because they are forced into altruistic actions.

    And reducing the Repair Speed of Survivors when the Killer increases their Map Pressure is just way too good for the Killer. If the Killer gets their first Hook, they apply pressure, but this is even more, because the Survivor will get a penalty in repair speed.

  • sulaimansulaiman Member Posts: 2,509
    edited August 2021

    Well, check this out: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1731823#Comment_1731823

    I proposed that same idea several times over the last two years. But so far, not much people were intrested.

    Edit: My numbers were a little different, but the idea was the same.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,280
    edited August 2021

    This is backwards to what is needed.

    Gen speeds are balanced to be viable in endgame, when there's only three gens left and you really need to clutch to finish that last gen. It's the early game where gen speeds need to be looked at, but not 'directly', because gen speeds already feel awfully slow for survivors as it is.

    Basically killer needs to be able to pressure gens more effectively at the start of the game. Or survivors need to have more tasks to complete to get those first couple gens done.

    • An early game/pre game objective to enable repairs to start with would work, however there's not too much room to work with, so it would have to be fairly minor (like finding one common but slightly elusive item, similar to finding a totem before you can start repairing, but not limited to just 5 across the entire map, more like 8-10 potential objects)
    • Alternatively, give killers scaling gen pressure as basekit. Something like kicking a gen automatically and instantly regresses a generator by 5% at 5 gens, 4% at 4 gens, ... 1% at 1 gen.

    Your 'slow repair by % for each hook' could however work as a killer perk, maybe even a Hex perk, and maybe something that works like the new Plaything:

    If there is at least one Dull Totem remaining in the Trial Grounds, Hex: ........... activates on a random Totem each time a Survivor is hooked for the first time:

    • The Survivor suffers from the Cursed  Status Effect until Hex: ........... is cleansed, reducing Healing and Repair speeds by 10/20/30%.
    • For the first 90 seconds, only the Cursed Survivor is able to cleanse the Hex Totem.
    • The Aura of Hex: .............'s Hex Totem is revealed to the Cursed Survivor within 24 metres.


    Likewise, a Prove Thyself style of repair speed increases that triggers when survivors are sacrificed could make a good survivor perk, but I'm holding off on making suggestions until we get more details about Boon Totems.

  • xenotimebongxenotimebong Member Posts: 2,803

    I don’t think it’s a bad idea in itself. Tweaking the balance of the game to incentivise spreading pressure, rather than just trying to get one survivor dead as fast as possible, is a good idea IMO.

    I’m not sure I agree with the numbers though. 15% slowdown is quite a lot, and 33% boost in a 3v1 is a bit nutty. Plus, like someone else pointed out, if you stack slowdowns and then one hook everyone the game would grind to a really slow pace. Slowdown perks would either have to be nerfed or they’d have to make sure they couldn’t be stacked.

    I also think this would be quite confusing for new players. It doesn’t feel very intuitive and I can imagine new survivors being confused about why they get slower as the match goes on then suddenly get faster. And new killers will still want to camp because that feels like the obvious thing to do when you’re new. Most of the core gameplay is quite straightforward and easily explained (killer powers, perks, hooks, gens, pallets and windows, hatch), but a mechanic like this is a bit more convoluted and I don’t think new players would get it.

  • fogdonkeyfogdonkey Member Posts: 1,510

    I like this idea.

    However maybe the percentages should be better fine tuned. And more options listed, e.g. should it be more penalty or more bonus instead? What the exact percentages should be.

    Do you have some math behind these numbers?

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 4,880
    edited August 2021

    Say 4 Survivors have 400% power.

    Why a Killer should 1 hook 3 survivors and they get debuffed 45%, when 3 hooks a survivor and they get debuffed 100%?

    The idea just make solo worse to play, nothing to fix tunneling at all.


    To remove Gen rush / tunneling / camping. New mechanics have to be added so players unable to do it, not putting reward for not doing so, or punished for doing so.

    The proof is Survivor will Gen rush ignoring the reward of 5000BP dull totem, and ignoring the risk of Noed that possibly happens. Same to tunnelers breakthrough BT,DS to get 1 early kill.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,495
    edited August 2021

    Action speed penalties stack multiplicatively

    So with thana everyone on deathhook and injured would effectivally be a 36% penalty.(1-(0.8x0.8)=0.36)

    That to be able to get you need to have 4 survivors alive at all time and have them injured at all time. It really wouldn't be that easy to do unless against very inexperiences survivors which you would stomp in the current system too

    If somebody dies then we are back at a 11.5sh% penalty (1-(0.8x0.85)x1.3=0.116) so it really wouldn't be that bad. I'm not even going to bother with dying light with how it doesn't affect the obsession and gives them a heal speed buff to negate thana. Those perks will never stack well

    Slugging to avoid the increase in repair speed would be a strategy but again you are enabling the survivors to split on gens by doing that. Is it better to have multiple survivors who are slower or less survivors who are faster? The answer won't always be so cut and dry i think.

    Yes the 100% action speed to the last survivor would be pretty pointless but atleast helps with that one achievement. Not really the focus

    Also numbers can be tweaked. It's the concept that's more important here.

    Just to note it's just an idea i had and throwing it out there. I didn't think this through as i felt more inputs would be faster at seeing if it's a bad or good idea then me thinking about it.

    So far seems it is a bad idea which is fair

    Post edited by Sonzaishinai on
  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,495

    Pls read the the full post before commenting

    You clearly skipped the part where survivors get a speedboost when one dies

  • fogdonkeyfogdonkey Member Posts: 1,510

    Maybe adding default gen kick regression and increasing gen regression speed would be enough to motivate killers to patrol gens instead of camping.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,766

    But then your team is down one survivor. An 18% increase in repair speed wouldn't make up for that. Not to mention that one could still change the values.

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    After the first hook my goal is to die. Imagine you as a killer you secure a 3 gen 1 survivor is dead and they do gen 18% faster forget kicking a gen the regression is not worth it. If 3 survivor are still in the game when 2 gen are remaining they can still win that easy its 1 bad chase and its game over and be sure to finish your chase asap because it wont take 80 sec to do a gen it will take 65 sec to do it more or less lets so you do a 30 sec chase plus the hook another 10 sec and you are 10 sec away of the closest gen you only need another 15 sec to finish the gen meanwhile the other survivor finiah his gen fo for the save and heal and both of them go to the gen and finish it while you get chase.

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    Sorry the 18% is assuming when you are slow by the repair you just had the 33% the the number but if its 33% total your gen will be even fast

  • Dino7281Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited August 2021

    Funny is that DC survivors will be nightmare for killers instead with this change.


    If anything like that should be implemented you would need to show killer each survivor hook stage (like survivors have). I have killed lot of survivors by accident (same skins / lot of switch targets).

    But it will not work, because you are going to see huge slugging festival instead, so survivor mains will start crying about that.

  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 2,232

    It's only 80 seconds? How can that feel long? A few years ago we were doing 100s base time gens with a Ruin that actually mattered pushing that time to 120s+.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,766

    But you also always have one survivor less repairing gens, especially when a survivor is on the hook, at which point nobody is repairing gens for a short time. That's definitely more than an 18% increase in repair speed.

    100% repair speed increase decreases the time it takes to repair a gen from 80 to 40 %. So losing a survivor is almost like having your team gain lose that 100% repair speed increase. With 3 survivors are left, only 2 survivors max will be working on gens, which is a 66% increase in gen repair speed, if they haven't suffered a repair speed debuff before.

    Values could definitely be looked at, because of course it shouldn't be beneficial for a survivor team to have a survivor die, or survivors will just be left on the hook to die. It should just be less beneficial for the killer, and this idea could perhaps work.

    I don't think it will ever happen because it sounds like they will try to address gen speed and hopefully tunneling and camping by adding new mechanics and objectives that are tied to Moris, and perhaps keys. We'll have to see how that turns out though, if it ever happens.

  • bibibib8bibibib8 Member Posts: 844

    The thing is camping is not benoficial to the killer if survivor do gen. Tunneling is not that much benificial too because you have BT, DS and DH that can help you. Plus if you are a good looper you want to get tunnel because like that you made sure 3 survivor escape if you get down at the end.

    Honestly dont expect too much from bhrv they prove again and again they cant deliver they were supose to do something like the end game colapse but for the beguinning of the match. They said a bunch of thing they were going to do but never did that one of the reason they stop doing Q&A i think. Another example they promise console optimization 2 or 3 year ago look the state some of the console are in right now.

  • MindGame3301MindGame3301 Member Posts: 94

    It sounds a little complicated. Gen speeds are pretty solid. Honestly I think objective bloodpoints should add up faster while doing generators.

    For killer hook points should add up faster. Instead of changing the killers and survivor speeds maybe make it so killer doesn't need to kick generators for them to regress. It would save a lot of time. Killer gets to focus on survivors and survivors can do a little bit of everything.

    Going for bloodpoints is a huge handicap sometimes, especially when killer needs 12 hooks and in some cases the best of the best killers can only get 5 hooks or even less depending. Survivors escaping doesn't mean it was bad game, the survivors are meant to escape and learn similar to jigsaws games. A good survivor is gonna know how to run and we shouldn't have a high standard of 12 hooks for it to be a good match bloodpoint wise for killer.

    The current emblem system is not a good reflection of what a good match even looks like. Dominating a swf with 5 gens left or getting 8 hooks and all survivors escaping, both would be good matches but the bloodpoints would look very different and same with emblems.

    The point is that adjusting gen speeds, especially as drastically as 15% even is not the solution. There is not even a concrete win yet. it's all subjective because; if I get 27k and die, my friend escapes and gets 18k, and the killer gets 1kill and 5hook with 20k points, then who won?

    Fundamentally escaping is a win for survivor and the killer is allowed to go to town as long as they sacerfice survivors to appease the entity.

  • KyxlectKyxlect Member Posts: 230
    edited August 2021

    Sounds like a bad suggestion but it's also a bit confusing.

    So it punishes Survivor's who have been hooked with a 15% repair penalty on the first hook and 20% on the second hook. That sounds alright-ish? Then it gets into giving bonuses after a Survivor dies. That part I have a hard time agreeing with because of map sizes, it's already difficult as hell to patrol these gens so if a Survivor just up and suicides on the first hook and the Killers on the other side of the map. The rest of the Survivor's are gonna pop three gens before the Killer can lumber their fat asses over to the other gens then they'll be long gone gen rushing the last two. Also, what point is there to increase the repair rate to 100% on the last Survivor? Both the Killer and Survivor will be looking for hatch at that point.

    I don't even understand what that last bit means. Talking about "charges". Also, this doesn't even take into account gen repair speed boosting perks. So I'm going to have to give it a big thumbs down. This suggestion would just bring back if not make gen speeds worse than they were way back when Behavior nerfed it.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,495

    Charges is how every action in the game is calculated

    For example a gen needs 80 charges to complete, survivors at base work at 1 charge per second so it takes 80 seconds for 1 survivor to do 1 gen

    2 survivors working together get a 15% penalty so they effectivly work at 0.85 charges per second. So combined they work at 0.85 times 2= 1.7 charges per second

    Meaning they do a generator in 80/1.7= 47 seconds

    Healing takes 16 charges and that's why you see 16 charges on a medkit to show you can do 1 heal with it

    Hope that clears it up a bit. Otherwise the wiki explains it pretty well too

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