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Pretty sure the sbmm is broken

Just played my first match since this ranking started I was a rank 4 ash killer with 0 points in the hidden skill ranking (becuase you know first match) played against irridecent and gold rank survivors who obviously had to have a higher skill rating as they had played more than 0 games and had a high rank.


So I indicated in another post I was worried that the matchmaking would be screwed up and without making the players skill number visible it's gonna take even longer to fix since no one can tell its broken.


Also I posted this in general not bug because as far as I can tell this must be the intended result behind the hidden number ie that it be impossible to be bugged because no one can see it.

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Comments

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    Ah, that's even better!! I actually missed that, but for anyone reading this that doesn't know what that means, it's essentially both getting rid of the invalid data from when MMR couldn't function correctly, and also not punishing people that just play waaaayyyyy too much dbd

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    My understanding was that we were essentially starting fresh also my second match paired me with 2 ash and 2 bronze survivors as would be expected if it was working properly. So either we were at 0 and it screwed up my first game or were wernt at 0 and the second was screwed up. And before someone posts that the second may have had a high skill number and just be low ranked. No they were very clearly not as skilled. It was obvious in the match that my survivors were less skilled.


    I'd put money on its pure random right now but who knows. What are other people finding. I mean I know you can't say I'm skill level 26 and matched with skill 2343 so it's not working bevuase again the devs don't seem to want people to be aware of their failings but you should be able to infer without the numbers being all mysterious and secretive

  • Duke_RagereaverDuke_Ragereaver Member Posts: 210

    obviously youre going to need a few "qualifier games" so to speak while it figures out where to put you. this was probably one such game.

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    No if you have a skill of 0 it would match you with others at 0. Granted it wouldn't represent out actual skill level however 5hose I played against clearly had a high skill level becuase they had clearly played more than a single match. so I should have never been matched with them. Atleast nit until my skill level goes up over time .

  • Duke_RagereaverDuke_Ragereaver Member Posts: 210

    every one starts at zero though, and it dosent take rank so much into account it seems. my first survivor game my killer was ash, next was silver, then a bronze, and only then did i start getting golds/iris for killers.

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    The point was that since they had high ranks they played matches to get there unlike me who had played 0 so they should have had a high skill level

  • Duke_RagereaverDuke_Ragereaver Member Posts: 210

    unfortunatley thats not how it happened, i can confirm it. i was in gold after the update, and quickly hit iri. so they seemingly just took your rank and made that your grade yesterday.

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    It's been live for less than a day, that test not long ago wasn't all that long, and there's a lot of curves to try to flatten. Give it time and let's see.

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    That's the problem with hiding the number. It will be nearly impossible to tell if it's working as intended or not. Which I imagine is the reason they had the numbers hidden in the first place so people wouldn't be able to point out how badly they screwed ot up

  • knellknell Member Posts: 565

    From the "Skill Based Matchmaking Recap" News from June 14th, 2021

    "Halfway through our test, we were seeing many reports of high-skill Killers being matched against low-skill Survivors. At around 1PM EST on Thursday (around halfway through the test) we enabled a system that would assign unrated Killers a starting Rating based on their other Killers. To put this another way, if you had a high Rating with The Shape and The Trapper then decided to try out The Oni for the very first time, your Oni rating would start higher than the normal default due to your experience with other Killers. Enabling this appears to have resulted in an improvement of match quality, and we intend to improve this system in our next iteration."

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    Great except I said it was my first match so there were no other killers for this to apply to as they all had 0 skill levels. Unless you had some other point you were trying to make. It's hard to tell since you just put an irrelevant quote in without context.

  • Alice_pbgAlice_pbg Member Posts: 5,066
    edited September 2021

    let me explain to you how MMR works. Not just in DBD, but EVERYWHERE.


    1st - No MMR starts at 0. they use higher numbers because it makes it better to balance new players and accounts for people being "good" at the game from the start.

    2nd - in your first X matches, you get paired with players of several skill levels.

    3rd - During those matches, your MMR will increase/decrease a lot more than normal. this is done to try to "triangulate" what your starting MMR should be.

    4th - after those X matches, the system normalyzes. meaning your gain/loss of MMR goes to the proper amount and the range to find a match for you gets adjusted to whatever the proper range is.


    so... play a bunch so the system can properly place you in whatever range of play you should be at

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    OK so instead of zero they start at say 1000. Replace all of my 0s with 1000 and my point still stands. I would be ranked at 1000. the people I played with considerably higher skill would be significantly higher skill level. as they had played the matches to get triangulated as you put it, let's say 2000 for no reason, and should not be playing with 1000s unless the system is bugged,( which of coarse it is the devs seem incapable of putting anything out thay isn't,) we just can't easily report those bugs .


    because they hid the numbers i can't just screenshot the end of match and show that a rank 1000 is against a bunch of rank 2000s so some people will rush in to say it can't possibly be bugged it must be some other explanation which means the bug report gets buried amount an avalanche of no just trust the developers it's working as intended

  • TacitusKilgoreTacitusKilgore Member Posts: 1,381
    edited September 2021

    I hate people using this excuse. We KNOW thats not the case, everybody KNOWS your MMR doesn't begin at 0. if its been gathering data then why are so many peoples games completely broken? Shouldn't that gathered data be going to proper matchmaking like they said it would? The matchmaking is awful and needed more time in the oven.

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    Well, the first problem here is expecting BHVR to be transparent :-p

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    Or maybe just some transparency so the devs screw up can be pointed out. More time probably wouldn't help

  • MringasaMringasa Member Posts: 978

    Grade (what used to be Rank) means nothing in terms of skill level. All that is is a placeholder for End of Seasons Rank Rewards. You get rewarded based on what Rank you achieved as both a Survivor and a Killer. You cannot drop down a Grade level, it's more of an achievement than a progression style thing, so if you've achieved Iri 1 with a P350 maxed Nurse, you don't have to worry about losing that Reward if you want to try out your Clown who is level 15 with Monstrous Shrine T3.

    MMR so far, from my experience, has been a pretty solid win. Every game, except one against a Camper, have been pretty damn exciting and enjoyable. Last match against a Blight was one of the best I've had in a LONG time. I've only played maybe a dozen, so not much of a sample size, but 11 out of 12 really solid matches makes me quite happy at this time. Might be a win for BHVR, but we'll see here in a week or two once I've played more matches.

  • knellknell Member Posts: 565
    edited September 2021

    It was your first match since when? Because if this is an extension from the last test, the data is compiled from the last several months. So if you had a run of multiple wins with ANY killer is the last half year or so, it had taken those samples as a consideration to place you, even if your old "ranking" indicates that you haven't played at all (due to the resets).

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    And it's in the oven, let it cook. A week or two of testing isn't going to do much other than to see if it's working, but now MMR is out and SBMM is in. It should flatten out before too long. (keyword: should)

  • Alice_pbgAlice_pbg Member Posts: 5,066

    they would not pair you with people with the same rank as you for the first X matches.

    what would that accomplish?


    they give you people higher, and lower. usually by a big margin. because every MMR works by over/under shooting.

    It like me telling you to guess a number and after every guess I go "higher" or "lower". You start with big differences and work your way down to smaller changes. that's what the system does.



    now, people that are getting "triangulated" will play against people that have been "triangulated" already. that's just normal. that's literally how it works. please understand how something is supposed to work before complaining about it. don't just imagine in your head what you think it is, look it up.

  • VikingWilsonVikingWilson Member Posts: 789

    We laughed at rainbow ranks, but can't really laugh at rainbow grades for this exact reason.

  • MringasaMringasa Member Posts: 978

    Lol. No kidding. I used to get Skittles when I played as a Killer all the time, rarely ever when I ran as a Survivor.

    Now though, I have to keep stopping myself going "######### is with these Ranks?" because Grades don't mean a damn thing other than they've gotten to X Rank Reward Tier.

  • MarcoPoloYoloMarcoPoloYolo Member Posts: 508


    Oh, so it functions completely differently from their release statements. "Skill based matchmaking ratings are also separate for each Killer, meaning you’ll have tougher matches with the Killer you’re really good at, but easier matches when you’re trying out a new Killer for the first time."

    Unless it means higher than the global average, but lower than your main killer's MMR (indicated to not be the case by experiences), these statements are mutually exclusive. So all they did is move the problem from one side to another. Classic. If you don't have a great build on a new killer, enjoy your loosing streak nerd, because the matchmaking system is actively going to search for tough opponents for you.

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    They would never say one thing and do another that's blasphemy around these parts aparently

  • knellknell Member Posts: 565

    They aren't lying. It's still easier than the old system to play a brand new killer if you were in the high red ranks, but probably not as easy as most of us thought it would be - after all, they are aiming for a 2K2E average in the end. Though I do agree that in my personal experience, they had probably overshot the rating boost for unplayed killers, but that could just be because 1. in the old Ranking System, I was getting many win streaks due to the fact that I rarely ever play killer anymore, so that I remained pretty much in the lower ranks (green and below) and 2. when I did play killer-side, I felt more comfortable playing with killers with simpler mechanics and avoided playing the more difficult killers, allowing me even more wins, and therefore boosted my ratings score even more than it should. So yeah, it's probably doing what it's supposed to be doing. Ultimately it was necessary, even though I personally wish that they didn't boost the rating by that much, and instead played it safer to account for console players trying to learn certain killer mechanics.

    *shrug* It's only a problem if their new system makes it really difficult to lower your MM rating - although it's also a big problem if it is too easy to do that too - given that "skills" don't normally deteriorate.

  • wxnickxwwxnickxw Member Posts: 742

    The only problem is if your unable to lower your rank.....unless it's bugged of course. That would never happen with these devs right?

  • MadLordJackMadLordJack Member Posts: 8,815

    Actually, it seems that very few people's games are actually broken, if any at all.

    And the OP literally stated they they thought their MMR was at 0 in the very first sentence of this post. So there's also that.

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