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Played against PinHead and he is the worst killer in game right now.

SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320
edited September 7 in Feedback and Suggestions

I must give devs credit - PinHead is cool. His animations, sounds, the power... Everything about the chapter is super cool! His perks tackle new mechanics, his power is interesting and interactive...

but...

He is literally the worst killer in game. The only thing he can do with his power is scout upper floor without going there or get hits at super short loops - which you can usually mindgame anyway

The very rest is tragic: By using his power to chase, he gains no distance towards survivor, even looses if he misses completely. Survivors can see his box at all times - which is key to unlock his passive Chain Hunts, which actually can be annoying... The problem is, if survivor holds onto the box, they deny him it and can never solve it... The Chain Hunt will be on the survivor carrying the box and he will be kind of oblivious due to the melody playing... but that's it, the rest of the team is fine.

The absolute worst part is the thing, that all survivor has to do is keep his m1 pressed. This way every chain starts breaking automatically. If he is chasing someone, just walk onto the chain to break it instatly for them.

Chains do not even make the skillchecks fail when interrupting aciton as skillchecks pops...

There is nothing good against this killer right now... Just don't play him.

Edit: How to fix him and make him actually usefull

  1. Chains cannot break on the terrain, they already last for way too short for this mechanic to even be there in the first place.
  2. Killer should gain distance by using his already hard to use power in chase - give him a button to make the body start walking towards location he is about to shoot chain from (very easy to dodge btw). Make it a button so killer have option, but doesn't go there automatically, so he can mindgame or make decisions.
  3. Lament Configuration should not be visible to survivors globally - just when they are near, maybe 10m. Instead give some quiet directional sound, like Huntress lullaby was back in a day if someone want's to go look for it.
  4. Chain Hunt - if the rest is buffed, leave it as it is.
  5. Make chains from the regular m2 power somehow stronger than the Chain Hunt chains so he is more skill reliant. (Just increase how much they last by a tiny bit or make these chains hit 100% of the time if killer connected the skillshot)
  6. THE MOST IMPORTANT - Quality of life for every chain - if they interrupt a skillcheck, the gen should explode and survivors can't just hold m1, instead they need to click and then hold for each chain separately (kind of like screaming cancels the action and you have to press and hold m1 again. Happens even to healing while downed)
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Comments

  • SasukeKunSasukeKun Member Posts: 1,859

    They stripped details from him like they did with other chapters from movies, It's insulting to say the least

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @SasukeKun If you are mentioning his "You opened the box, I came" I kind of agree, it should stay in game. It's iconic and even though I don't like Hellraiser that much it shouldn't be removed just because some 12yo made couple of jokes about it on streams...

  • SasukeKunSasukeKun Member Posts: 1,859

    It's just really sad the team doesn't dedicate themselves to licensed chapters. It's really angering and disappointing

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @SasukeKun I think you are underrating effort they put in here. All the new animations (this killer literally has no animation he shares with any other killer), completely new mechanics for power, every perk tackling new mechanic... In my opinion they did decent job, killer is cool, he is just a bit buggy and simply weak gameplay wise. I still think that removal of his iconic lines is simply stupid though

  • NekoTorvicNekoTorvic Member Posts: 714

    I love your idea in number 2.

    Since they have messed with AI, it would be so nice to just have the option to have pinhead walk in the direction of the gateway. Theres no reason not to. He doesn't have to be able to attack, or do any complex pathing, just take the shortest path towards the gateway.

    Also I don't understand why survivors need so much counterplay to his power. They can counterplay him normally as a standard killer, they can dodge the chain before he even hits them and then AFTER he has hit them they can still get rid of them or break them in the environment...Just feels a bit too much, the killer barely gets any value from his skill investment.

    I also agree that there's no good reason for survivors to see the lament configuration map wide, unless maybe the chain hunt is already going, then it seems fairer.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 1,414
  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @NekoTorvic In devs minds, having power that is countered by everything means 'being interactive'. I don't really have hope though, because Trickster needed buffs, but they took the buffs literally in the opposite direction. He needed map pressure (which making knives not go away on their own and just be able to be mended away would fix) and some change to no have to tunnel one guy (becuase all the knives put in the person you then abandon and the time it took is basically wasted), so they instead made him even more opressive in 1/1 chases xD. Let's see, maybe something will happen.

  • NekoTorvicNekoTorvic Member Posts: 714

    I dunno what's up with the decisions the devs make. I don't have much hope for the game. I stopped playing cuz I don't care for dealing with MMR. Luckily I didn't spend money on Pinhead. But I don't think anything is going to change. Survivors will keep having ridiculous tools to deal with killers, and they'll probably get more. For as long as that's the case, I hope I don't get back into this game.

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @NekoTorvic I think your attitude is not that good. Yeah sure, you can leave and good luck in general, but this game is arcade at best with all the randomness, different maps, perks and abilities. People try to treat it like it's competetive, but it's just wrong. Makes no sense :). This doesn't mean devs should try reaching balance though.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    hes not that bad, chain hunts are his real strength, good luck doing bones etc when thats active.

  • ReikoMoriReikoMori Member Posts: 1,752

    Chain hunts are his real strength, but those aren't remotely in his control though. It's in the survivor's control while being completely passive for for him. One person can pick up the box, hold it, and just be mildly inconvenienced the entire game while their team is left comparatively fine.

    If they want him to rely on chain hunts then they need to be consistent. Which means at the very least the killer should be afforded the same ability to see where configuration is just like the survivors can. I suspect the devs want people to rely more on his active use power though so again that means it needs to consistently reliable which currently it isn't. He shouldn't be breaking his own chains and using his power shouldn't be a detriment to his overall potential.

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    Just hold the box hostage and solve it when he is carrying or trying to zone the hook. Bye bye chain hunt :)

    @Psycho_

  • NekoTorvicNekoTorvic Member Posts: 714

    It's true, the randomness was an aspect that helped the game's horrid balance feel less awful.

    The problem is that with MMR what you face is the same group of survivors over and over that give you 5 minute matches after 10 minute queues because the game is balanced in their favor, because the game is balanced for survivors that don't know what they're doing. And a boatload of hackers...lets not forget those.

    I agree that the game should reach a better balance in general, and if it becomes more balanced I will go back to it. I like the game, I like it's concept and I like engaging with it's mechanics. And I want it to be better so I feel compelled to invest more time in it.

    What I don't like is sweating my ass off trying to outplay 4 people that are putting massive pressure on me, not by outplaying me, but by holding m1 on a thing, while the game coddles them with second chances.

    If the devs don't wanna balance the game for people that get better, then they shouldn't have implemented bs MMR system that makes sure to torture only those who actually got really invested in it.

    However, I will not begrudge anyone for not agreeing with this position. People can be willing to deal with this and if you don't think it's BS, and can enjoy it, then more power to you.

  • DeanIcityDeanIcity Member Posts: 180

    Easily the worst killer In the game.

  • DeanIcityDeanIcity Member Posts: 180

    Chain hunt Is easily countered. Easily. He's a [BAD WORD] killer. Hands down.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    I guess doctor is a [BAD WORD] killer too. essentially at most loops he has the same power, bruh. not everyone has to be nurse or blight.

  • DeanIcityDeanIcity Member Posts: 180
    edited September 15


    No. Doctor actually has the ability to completely negate you from dropping a pallet, with a skilled shot that doesn't take nearly as much skill to use on top of that.

    You as the player have ZERO control over chain hunt. Zero. It's RNG, It's a passive, It's also controlled by survivor play.

    Horrible example.


    Also. Doctor Isn't that good either. You think Doctor Is good? Weird that this Is your example?

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @DeanIcity @Psycho_ Doctor is way, way better than PinHead and way easier to play. His power is simple, quite easy to get consitent with the rihgt timing and very rewarding when used correctly and combined with the right mindgame. Example: Shocking them slightly too late so they still drop the shack pallet, just barely, while vaulting the window so they can't vault back on the other side of the pallet due to shock that actually hit.

    PinHead is just clown with power which is actually hard to aim and slows himself down. Chain Hunt is good... but with survivors understanding the game you will not have it active ever. They will either hold the box hostage or solve it when you are hooking/zoning.

    The only thing PinHead can do is easily scout upper floors like Midwich and guarante hits on very short loops... which you can just brute force or mindgame anyway as 115% killer. Chains just break too easily and survivors just hold m1 to autobreak them... Hell, they don't even cause interrupted skillcheck to blow up xD.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    you dont deny a pallet as doctor, you play the downed pallet, weird yourself. you really just dont get it.

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @Psycho_ It's like saying, you don't cloak and uncloak as Wraith on pallet loops, you just sneak on the people and chase them with M1. Yes... you can just refuse to use your power when others do... but does it make sense?

    You don't use Pig's ambush in small pallet loops, it's just used to sneak up on survivors.

    You don't 99% T3 as Myers to activate it at best possible moment, you just stalk, pop it and chase.

    You don't try to curve around loops or building as Billy, Chainsaw is just used for mobility and backrubs.


    Do you want me to continue?

  • CrimsonMothKingCrimsonMothKing Member Posts: 80

    They said that it was disabled because they messed up the audio files or something

  • DeanIcityDeanIcity Member Posts: 180
    edited September 15


    You literally can do both. Literally.

    If you shock then right before they get to a pallet or window, you do what?

    Deny them. Is the answer.

    Way to try an deflect from the original point though.


    Pinhead Isn't good right now. He just isn't.


    It's ironic that you truly think "I" don't get It.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    hes been out for a week and your saying hes so [BAD WORD] bad. you sound like the people that thought blight was dogshit on release. we haven't had but a week to try out play styles and perks. it's just not true.

    granted he isnt amazing, but I really dont believe hes terrible.

  • SsajbambusaSsajbambusa Member Posts: 320

    @Psycho_ Release Blight was dogcrap. And no, PinHead has nothing going for him, his power is just worse clown who can miss and it is bad.

  • adsads123123123123adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 316

    Yep. Every streamer I have seen thinks this killer is dog [BAD WORD].

  • DeanIcityDeanIcity Member Posts: 180
    edited September 16

    It's truly not hard to realize what Is good and what Is bad. There Is only so much you can figure out In this game In these ways. This Is not a true "competitive" game. Blight had hitbox issues that did make him weak"er". The majority that were complaining about the hitbox issues with hitting things he shouldn't have, also were saying he had a lot of potential. He turned out to be what I thought he would be after the fix. He's a solid killer. Not the strongest but very strong.

    Perks don't make killers good. You always judge a killer off of their base kit when you look at their strength and weakness. Perks might help a bit, same goes for addons, but, those things will NEVER elevate a killer from weak to strong.

    The ONLY thing that gives the illusion that Pin Head might be credible, IS when going against survivors that literally don't understand how to make Pin Head obsolete. It's very easy to do. I know this for a fact from a survivor and killer perspective.


    It's been out long enough to know this for sure. You have your opinion. I have mine. I don't think I'm wrong at all and I have more people on my side of the fence than yours, claiming the same things I am.


    To each their own though.

  • Dan3Dan3 Member Posts: 1

    Hello! :) (want to say it right now. English is not my main language. i'm russian and sorry if i make some mistakes ;) )

    i already play on cenobite some time after he became from PTB. I have 2000 hours in Dead by daylight, trird prestige

    and 50ty lvl cenobite ( It means i have enough experiense like a cenobite ). first of all i want say, that this killer 

    very beatiful in his mechanics and his very pleasant for the game.

    Now we can talk about his Box (actually I really want to hear again his voise "The box... you opened it...) hm....

    sooo box. just imagine hunter (trapper) when he can use traps only when he take 1 of 2 ADDons. the box of cenobite 

    seems so. Why? Just give survoivors some time and then all of them will realize what you can open the box when the pinhead

    crab another survoivor on his shoulder. almost in 100% pinheads can't use teleport to his box. It means the OBLIVIOUS STATUS EFFECT

    will not started anymore. But if he lucky he can find it on the floor or take from survoivor (but which survoivor

    will take the box just for run agains cenobite if we talk about clever players). So pinhead can don't start OBLIVIOUS STATUS EFFECT

    any time for match. Thats his main ability like ability of Freddy Cruger, but that like they can wake up when they even not 

    in dream. answer? we can increase the time of open the box. and reduce time which giving to open the box when you take 1 of 2

     ADDons on opening ( i not really know how to say it corectly. i mean increase pasive time of opening and reduce time of ADDons

    but it not all. when survoivor is opening the box cenobite can teleport to him and can not to teleport. but players 

    needs to open the box. they will open it constantly. they will start open it when pinhead already in chase to distract

    killer or take chase on himself (another teammates will heal first target when second in chasing and then it will

    continue infinitly. opender of box must have some debuffs if pinhead teleport to him ( i don't know what it must be.

    it can be just more faster start of OBLIVIOUS STATUS EFFECT on himself. that will be not disbalance) 

    and second thing is his main ability. the summons of pain. i read on this forum that people thinks that very weak ability.

    That not so. if you will buff it, that buff can contain only increase of deliverence time from chains

     (on 0.1 -0.3 second for every chain) not more. Ability OBLIVIOUS STATUS EFFECT is very nice. It helps to perfect 

    close suvs in dropped pallet or stop they when they triyng to run away.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    I honestly think your right, running double increased box solve slowdowns with hoarder, might be one of the most fun ways to play this killer. chain hunts seem to give you the most value, if you run something like ruin on top of that. it basically forces survivors to find and solve the lament to continue the game while at the same time regressing the generators to 0 and making them unable to destroy ruin even if they did manage to find it.

  • Psycho_Psycho_ Member Posts: 290

    One last comment, because this discussion drove me crazy. Kaiz (you can find him on the leaderboards and he streams)said "he's very good, He's oppressive in chase and if you run ruin on him its very difficult to deal with."

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,831

    I really don't want him to become way overpowered, and I feel your suggestions would make him exactly that.

    He is not weak, if you know when to use your chains against survivors, he will gain distance with them most of the time.

    Removing the ability to break chains on objects would be bad, it's one of the counterplays that survivors have, which makes him more interesting to play against. If anything, I saw Dowsey suggest that when a chain breaks on an object, the chain break progress bar should be reset. That could maybe work, but removing the ability to break chains on objects won't. He would become stronger, arguably too strong, but by sacrificing some interesting counterplay against him.

    Also, he should not move towards his gateway while casting it. It would not work. His chase potential is fairly strong, just a small buff would be more than enough. Perhaps just increasing the base time to remove a chain from 1 second to 1,1 or 1,2 seconds would be enough.

    Before they buff Pinhead though, I want them to fix his ridiculous lunge bug. After that we can see if he actually needs some more buffs. But as for now, he needs his lunge to be fixed at first.

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