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Facecamping needs to be dealt with



  • SunderMunSunderMun Member Posts: 2,791

    Can't say I've witnessed them play normally after the first facecamp, honestly. If they tunneled someone instead, I do find that happens, but again while I find tunneling annoying I'm more concerned about the inability to play the game entirely by having another player's camera stare straight into your avatar.

  • SunderMunSunderMun Member Posts: 2,791

    There was one version of it only; that is not iterating on it. Not that it matters - I'm not even asking for that system. I'm asking for a genuine fix to very badly broken game design.

  • Warcrafter4Warcrafter4 Member Posts: 2,901

    They did iterate on it in PTBs with changes to radius it counts, Making it deactivate in chases and instead of stopping the sacrifice it simply slowed by X amount.

    No matter what they did survivors managed to abuse it.

  • Gamedozer7Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 1,848

    Its funny how they complained about camping and the devs try to do something and of course it gets abused so at has to come out

  • UnifallUnifall Member Posts: 749

    Yeah I've seen more camping at high level but its more of proxy camping. Meaning the killer leaves but doesn't go away too far. Now this strat can be good when survivors go for the immediate save or if the hooked survivor is close to the second stage. I don't blame the killers. Its tough when the survivors are all strong loopers and getting pressure this way can be beneficial imo. Camping can never be re designed it can be punished but not enough to force the killer not to camp. That would be a bad game design.

  • DeathBeamDeathBeam Member Posts: 257

    Nope, facecamping is a valid strategy even though it sucks and is unfun for the survivor being facecamped.

  • xnicolayxnicolay Member Posts: 70
    edited September 2021

    What suppose to do a non meta killer when 2 o 3 gens gone ?

    First chase with a bad survivor who drops 2 o 3 pallets and 2 o 3 gens pop. Bring back the old ruin, and sh*tty survivors cant repair anymore.

    Sadly is the only way.

  • GrimoireWeissGrimoireWeiss Member Posts: 1,142

    I honestly wish BHVR would test making hooks behave like PH's Cages (teleport if killer stays X time too close) on a PTB. But I'd bet this forum and Reddit would go on Crusader mode so I doubt it would happen. Just look how people on the comments defend something that makes the game more unfun.

  • 7eewilsmi7eewilsmi Member Posts: 51

    They should add a system that slows the hook timer if the killer face camps.

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    Your criticism if valid, but in a way it just shows how widespread the problem is getting.

    I'll just do the same thing I do every time I see one of these posts: Mention my idea of giving camped survivors a bit of extra BP to make the situation more tolerable (call it "suffering" points) - a higher score multiplier if it happens early in the match and a low multiplier if it happens late in the match. That way survivors at least don't have to have their match totally wasted, killers can still employ their preferred play style without penalty, and everyone has the chance to earn a fair number of BP for their time investment. Win/win.

  • ChordycepsChordyceps Member Posts: 933

    Except there is agency involved in face camping. First the decision of whether or not to go for an unhook at all. Deciding to let the camping take place and punish the killer by doing gens is player agency. If you go for the unhook, players have the decision on whether to have one person with BT go, or have everyone swarm the hook and try to overwhelm the killer. The person on hook has the option to either hook suicide to get on to the next match, or stay there and buy their teammates some time. That decision may be understaded and not particularly fun, but it's still player agency. That decision has an impact on the match.

    And there are more incentives than BBQ to leave hook. Devour Hope is a scarily powerful perk and it requires you to not camp hook. Make Your Choice rewards the player for not camping by giving them an instant down. Dead Man's Switch allows you to shut down gens, which you will likely need you to pressure those gens by leaving hook. Hell even with ruin you need to apply pressure to gens for it to work, you cant do that when facecamping. Pop Goes The Weasel will likely require you to leave hook to gain its effects. Thrilling Tremors can offer intel similar to BBQ while also blocking gens. Blood Echo does nothing unless you hunt people down after getting it to activate. No Way Out doesnt help until way later in the match, but it will not reach it's full potential if you camp. Some perks have more direct rewards than others for not camping, but there are a lot of potential rewards for leaving hook.

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 3,227

    Some killers don't care enough about points... they care about Killing/Escaping

    Killers will run whatever perks that fit what they want to do... same as Survivors

    Comradery (or however you spell it) was the end result of that test of stopping the timer from going down while the killer was within TR of the hooked survivor

    They also made MYC and Devour Hope being a certain distance away from the hooked survivor (but that doesn't help that much)

    They made BT work no matter what (But again that don't help out that much)

    They made DS (but after the changes... it's only there to delay tunneling)

    But again it's up to the player... no one forcing Facecamping to go away

  • IlliterateGenocideIlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 3,191

    There is only 1 killer in the game that you can do much about. Facecamping wise. Leatherface. Every other killer you can get the rescue I'd you try hard enough.

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285

    Welcome to SBMM.

    If the devs want me to play with high MMR/comp survivors, you need to expect me to play like a high MMR/comp killer. Go watch a tournament sometime. It's basically all tunneling, camping and NOED. Because this game is horribly balanced in favor of survivors so killers have no choice to play like this if they want to get a kill or 2.

  • SunderMunSunderMun Member Posts: 2,791

    It's only balanced in favour of survivors when they're a SWF and all good. I keep getting this when I get brand new players as teammates, lol. Meanwhile I get legit sweaty SWFs to deal with when I play killer, as a result of SBMM but I'm not a piece of ######### so I don't force a disgusting way of playing on them.

    I know well how comp players play, and it's awful for both sides; 9these people genuinely make any game they're in horrendous even if they're losing badly) no skill for either side is required, just instadrop pallets and rely on crutch perks for survivor and as killer abuse NoED and facecamping while being either Spirit or Nurse. Fun.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 11,572

    Have you considered that the increase in "face" camping killers is based on the current gen speed and the killers struggle with it?

  • ReinamiReinami Member Posts: 2,285
    edited September 2021

    I don't disagree. But the point is that it is a multi-faceted problem. They should fix low level/low skill/solo queue survivor gameplay to make the game better for them by closing the gap between them and SWF. They also need to drastically do something to increase killer lethality against high level survivors.

    Personally what i think the easiest set of changes would be:

    • Make kindred base kit
    • Give survivors a temporary debuff to gen repair speeds of 50% for 90 seconds after getting unhooked, this effect lessens as survivors start being killed off.
    • Increase the time it takes to die on hook by 30 seconds per phase.
    • Create a new status effect for survivors called "Ethereal" or whatever.
      • Add to survivor basekit: When a survivor is unhooked they are granted the "Ethereal" status effect. This effect phases them to another dimension (whatever lore thing you want) that makes it so they are unable to be seen or heard by the killer. They are able to see the auras of other survivors. During this time they are unable to repair generators, this effect lasts until they start healing themselves at self-care speed, or another survivor starts healing them. The 90 second repair debuff starts when Ethereal ends. Then you would rework borrowed time to do something else.
    • Fix busted loops.
    • Fix busted items/addons from survivors (BNP, borrowed time in a bottle, etc.)
    • Make basekit kicking a gen do a mini "Pop" for 5% of progress, and when the survivor gets on the gen, in order to start repairing it they need to do an overcharge style skill check, then rework overcharge to do something else.
    • Massively buff every gen regression/slowdown perk to be roughly the same power of a ruin that lasts the entire game, but then make it so they can't stack with each other (think like the killer version of exhaustion perks).

    Some of these changes seem drastic and other things could be done instead, but basically the gist is to:

    • Discourage killers from camping by encouraging them to go after other survivors, by ENCOURAGING them to go after other survivors. If you knew that survivors were useless on gens for a bit, then you are encouraged to go after someone else. Having a little longer to die on hook also discourages camping. Kindred being basekit also does this.
    • Killers are discouraged from tunneling. First because survivors basically become immune for a short time after being unhooked. So being recently hooked basically puts you on "time out" until you get to a safe place and heal themselves, then they are relegated to a more support role for a short time and encouraged to look for totems, open chests, or heal survivors since they will be slower on gens.
    • Punish survivors who "gen-tap"
    • Encourage killers to actually kick generators without needing perks to make it useful.
    • Discourage stacking massive amounts of slowdown perks, while also making it so you aren't required to do so. I'd rather just have to pick 1 perk from a category of perks (like exhaustion) then be forced to run 4 slowdown perks.
  • OldHunterLightOldHunterLight Member Posts: 2,975

    There is a perk for that so yes, just like how there are perks for everything since perks are just a bandaid fix.

  • chargernick85chargernick85 Member Posts: 3,171

    Getting a good killer these days is like winning the lottery......Good Luck (Taken Voice).

  • shinobu149shinobu149 Member Posts: 141
    edited September 2021

    The devs can only do so much. I am tired of seeing everyone complain about them. I am sure they are aware of the issue and are finding ways to solve it. We dont know how some of the things they have to do on their end. They could be trying to find a way they can do it but are at a stump idk. Also, they could be working on other things people are wanting fixed they can only do so much at a time and are probably working on the little things while thinking of how they can fix the bigger things. I am sure there aware of issues always being complained about. I know on our end it could be frustraing but its not like the game is unplayable there are bug that is noticible but usually its like a glitch or a small moment but that could could be fixed. Camping and other things like that seems hard to really penetalize or make a system for if that makes sense.

  • ArtemishaArtemisha Member Posts: 401

    When u expose the problem of camp tunnel a lot of people just say "do gens". What a joy of game spending your time just holding m1 for 80 seconds. 3 survs bored on gens and 1 without being able to even play. Of course it´s a bad game design.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,549
    edited September 2021

    I mean, isn't that kind of asinine. You face-camp/proxy-tunnel a survivor out of the game right at the beginning, the play the game normally, because you know you've won the game at that point. 3 survivors almost never can complete 3 gens or more.

  • SumnoxSumnox Member Posts: 313

    I have had the exact same experience. I made a thread about it as well. Killers were always campy and tunnelly, but ever since the DS destruction and very specifically the new rank system, it is literally a nightmare. Every - single - game without an exception it's camp and tunnel. I have played 9 games today, and in 7 of them I got facecamped and tunnelled after being BTed without an exception. In the other 2 it was my friend (we were a duo) being facecamped and tunnelled. This is the same as the previous days, every single match someone got camped and tunnelled, 100% of the matches.

    This made me stop playing today and I'm going to take a break from the game. I can't be bothered to be tunneled and face camped every single match I play.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,549

    My guess is that face-camping/proxy-tunneling has gotten so bad that it will force the developers to do something. Survivors players aren't even getting to play the game, it's so bad.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,834

    Too much work to change the game to make it balanced when they can just... Not.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 11,572

    I've never seen a gen rusher complain about gen rushing. Since there are so many of them, I suppose they like holding m1.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,549

    That's because gen-rushing is when you have a 4 man SWF, all with toolboxes and BNP and leadership. So there's really hardly any of those. Where as face-camping/proxy-tunneling is about every game now.

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