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Pig Rework

Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223
edited September 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

Basekit Changes

  • Terror Radius is now 28m. (from 32m )
  • No unsheathe noise while uncrouching.


Crouch

  • Crouching is now instant, similar to Ghostface or Survivors. (from 1.3-seconds)
  • When you crouch, the pig becomes undetectable. When you uncrouch, the pig will remain undetectable for the amount of time spent crouching, up to 4-seconds.
  • Crouch movement speed increases to 100% or 4.0 ms2 (from 90% or 3.6 ms2)
  • While Crouched, the FoV increases by 15-degrees.


Ambush Dash

  • Ambush Dash charge time increased to 1-second. (from 0.75-seconds)
  • Ambush Dash duration increased to 2.5-seconds. (from 2-seconds)


RBT Timer

  • The Reverse Bear Trap(RBT) Death timer is 120-seconds.
  • Each time a generator is powered, active RBT Death timers lose 20 seconds.


Searching Jigsaw Boxes

  • To remove an RBT, a Survivor must search 3 out of 4 Jigsaw Boxes.
  • While Searching a Jigsaw Box with an active RBT, the RBT Death timer is paused.


Jigsaw Box Skill Checks

  • Jigsaw Box Skill Checks no longer have Great Skill Check zones.
  • Failed Jigsaw Skill Checks have a regression penalty of 50%.
  • The Pig does not receive loud noise notifications for failed Skill Checks on Jigsaw Boxes.


Endgame

  • Once all Generators are powered, any inactive RBTs are automatically activated.
  • During the End Game Collapse (EGC), while an RBT is active; the EGC timer is paused.


Killer Score Events

  • BP gained for the Ambush Dash Score Event increased to 200 Deviousness points (from 100 Deviousness points)
  • BP gained for the Ambush Hit Score Event increased to 600 Deviousness points (from 500 Deviousness points)
  • BP gained for the Trap Set Score Event increased to 750 Deviousness points (from 500 Deviousness points)
  • BP gained for the Game Over score event increased to 2000 Sacrifice points (from 500 Sacrifice points)


  • New Score Event; The Game Continues. Awards up to 250 Deviousness Points when a Survivor removes an RBT. Awards 1 Deviousness Points per second when the Survivor is caught in an inactive RBT. Awards 2.5 Deviousness per second when the Survivor is caught in an active RBT.
  • New Score Event; Make Your Choice. Awards 250 Deviousness Points when an inactive RBT is activated. 


Survivor Score Events

  • BP gained for the Macabre Search Score Event increased to 400 Boldness Points (from 100 Objective points)


  • New Score Event; Ambush Dash Dodged; Awards 250 Boldness Points for causing The Pig to miss an Ambush Dash.
  • New Score Event; Game Escaped. Awards 1000 Survival Points when removing an inactive RBT.
  • New Score Event; Deadly Game Escaped. Awards 2000 Survival Points when removing an active RBT.


Add-on Changes

Ultra Rare Add-ons

  • Amanda’s Letter: Hitting a Pallet or Breakable wall while Ambush Dashing will break them and stun the pig for 1.5-seconds. While Crouched, the Aura of all Survivors within 8-meters are revealed to the Pig
  • Rule Set No.2: All Survivors start the Trial caught in an RBT.
  • Available RBTs reduced by 4.

Very Rare Add-ons

  • Crate of Gears: Unchanged
  • Amanda’s Secret: Whenever a Generator is completed, the Auras of all Survivors not caught in an RBT are revealed to The Pig for 4-seconds.
  • Jigsaw’s Sketch: Available RBTs increased by 1. Spawns 1 additional Jigsaw Box. Survivors must complete 1 additional Jigsaw Box to remove an RBT. *This Add-on does not Stack with Jigsaw’s Annotated Plan
  • Shotgun Collar: New Name, Very Rare Rarity; Replaces RBTs with Shotgun Collars. Shotgun Collars have a 60-second Death timer. Shotgun Collars’ timers do not reduce whenever a generator is completed. Shotgun Collars do not activate when a generator is completed. Shotgun Collars are activated while the collared survivor is not within 16m of another survivor. Shotgun Collars start to beep when 8m away from the nearest survivor, and beep faster again at 12m, and fastest at 16m.


Rare Add-ons

  • Bag of Gears: Unchanged
  • Jigsaw’s Annotated Plan: Spawns 1 additional Jigsaw Box. Survivors must complete 1 additional Jigsaw Box to remove an RBT. *This Add-on does not Stack with Jigsaw’s Sketch
  • Interlocking Razor: Increases the chance of triggering a Skill Check while searching a Jigsaw Box by 5%. If a Survivor fails a Jigsaw Box Skill Check; they become broken for 60-seconds.
  • Slow-Release Toxin: Hitting a Survivor with your Ambush Dash inflicts Exhaustion for 5-seconds.
  • Razor Wires: Rare Rarity; Hitting a Survivor with your Ambush Dash inflicts Broken for 90-seconds.


Uncommon Add-ons

  • Last Will: Unchanged.
  • Video Tape:  Reduces the Successful Ambush Dash Hit Cooldown by 20%
  • Workshop Grease: Uncommon Rarity. Reduces the size of Skill Check Success Zones, while searching a Jigsaw Box, by 50%. Increases the chance of triggering a Skill Check while searching a Jigsaw Box by 5%.
  • Rusty Attachments: Uncommon Rarity; Hitting a Survivor with your Ambush Dash inflicts Mangled and Hemorrhage until healed.
  • Cassette Player: New Name; The Ambush Dash’s Roar is played globally. 


Common Add-ons

  • Shattered Syringe: Unchanged
  • Combat Straps: After The Pig uncrouches, The Pig remains Undetectable for a time equal to the time spent crouching, up to a maximum of 10-seconds. 
  • John’s Medical File: Increases the Ambush Dash Duration by 0.5-seconds. 
  • Tampered Timer: Common Rarity. Grants 100% bonus bloodpoints for Trap Set Score Events. Removes the ability for Survivors to see how close they are to death. (The RBT Timer turns red but doesn’t move while active. The RBT only beeps at the slowest speed.) 


Notes

  • The main objective of this rework was to make the Pig more consistent and less annoying for both sides, without these changes affecting her lethality. A secondary objective was to make the Pig more punishing for mistakes.
  • The timer has been reduced by 30-seconds, which seems like a nerf at first glance, but the timer is paused while searching a jigsaw box. The time to search the minimum 3 Jigsaw Boxes is 36-seconds without add-ons. So the total time of the timer remains the same.
  • The boxes needing a set amount to be searched reduces the annoyance for the survivor, as you no longer have to search up to 6 potentially while reducing the annoyance for the killer since they can't get it off the first try.
  • The timer has been paused while searching a jigsaw box to make it fairer for survivors. If you can search the box, you can live. There’s no situation where you die mid-search.
  • The timer reducing when further generators add a lethality increase in fitting with the aesthetic of RBTs and Saw. in the same vein as Saw 5. Playing selfishly gets people killed, you need to work as a team. This also acts as a slight buff as it discourages the team from further working on generators even when the trap is active.
  • Crouching has been made instant and with increased speed. This allows for mind games by hiding the Pig’s model at loops, like Ghostface, and also allows the ambush dash to be easier to fake.
  • The ambush dash charge speed was decreased due to the crouch change. Previously it took 1.3 seconds to crouch and 0.75 seconds to charge, making 2.05 seconds total. With the crouch being instant, it now takes 1 second to begin an ambush dash.
  • The capability for pigs to harass people with traps and get them killed has been reduced. Addons that slowed search speed are kept but the timer is paused while searching. Tampered timer has been changed and no add-ons affect the timer. Multiple box add-ons no longer stack
  • Amanda’s letter has the RBT downsides removed but has reduced aura reading range, as well as adding the ability to destroy pallets via Ambush Dash.
  • Shotgun Collars are an alternative to RBTs. They trade the ability to slowdown the game, to instead force survivors to stay close to each other. If you chase one survivor, a Collared survivor might have to chase you, to avoid dying.
  • The Tampered Timer now makes it impossible for survivors to keep track of their timer, leading to overestimating how much time is left. It also increases the amount of bloodpoints the Pig can get; due to its minimal effect and give positive feedback since it’s hard for the Pig to tell how much or how little the add-on is helping.


Post edited by Inferno427 on

Comments

  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 1,734

    I need this addon in my killer life. I wish Pig had a load of addons like this.

  • SabunoHakiaSabunoHakia Member Posts: 465

    Yes to some no to some and too lazy to be more detailed than you but vote up.

  • bjorksnasbjorksnas Member Posts: 4,340

    Problem, the changing of ambush times and addons turn her from a 4.6 killer to a 4.7 killer with the right addons just for spamming ambush

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,416

    Now this. THIS is what the Pig should be! I love this rework, it actually makes Ambush more viable in chase, it allows you to stealth more consistently, and it removes the RNG factor from RBTs making it focused on slowdown!

    I also really, REALLY love those add-ons. For instance, Shotgun Collar completely replaces your RBTs with something new, which is awesome!

  • Tekno_BadgerTekno_Badger Member Posts: 526
    edited September 2021

    Some of the add-ons are good and really interesting ideas, but the power changes are either unclear or just not a great idea. Pig's Ambush is useless at higher levels because survivors can just run away while she charges, which would now take even longer with this rework. And being Undetectable when Crouching only lasts 4s? Not a great idea. Removing RNG altogether from box searches is a no-go as well, even if BHVR would go for that (they won't). Taking 20s for a gen could be problematic, and it hurts solo-queuers more than SWFs, which isn't great. Shotgun collars would also be extremely broken, as whoever is partnered up with you when you get hooked or get in a chase is all but forced to follow you (and the killer) there.

    Best thing to do to Pig is, to keep it short, nerf trap timers, make them more consistent with less workarounds, buff stealth movement, buff the Ambush, and buff/rework the add-ons. I have a more extensive rework posted already if you're interested.

  • Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223
    edited September 2021

    Don't worry, I've run the numbers, it doesn't do that. That's something I double checked while planning.

    Thank you

    The decreased crouch speed makes it more easy to fake the dash and catch up to survivors who leave the loop. The intention is to psych the survivor out of leaving the loop while ambushing. Further empowering the "will she dash or not" mindgame.

    While the charge speed has been reduced the total time to crouch and charge had been cut in half. The decreased charge speed has been compensated by the increased duration.


    The 4 seconds only refers to the period where undetectable remains after uncrouching. While Crouched, undetectable lasts infinitely.


    Survivors won't Counterplay this isn't a fair criticism. While some will make sometimes, acting like players wont adapt isn't realistic or a fair argument to make.

    Post edited by Inferno427 on
  • DreadnightDreadnight Member Posts: 102

    If I could add something else to the rework I would add the ability to use Ambush without needing to stop while crouching.

  • Tekno_BadgerTekno_Badger Member Posts: 526
    edited September 2021

    As someone who plays Pig consistently at a high level, good survivors won't leave till you start charging. But I understand the Undetectable part now, I like it. I'd prefer they just delay the unsheathing sound until just before she can grab

    And again, there's not exactly counterplay when you're forced to follow the killer sometimes lol

    Post edited by Tekno_Badger on
  • Sh1ndiSh1ndi Member Posts: 46
    edited September 2021

    Everything is cool, but I would add those:

    RBT CHANGES

    • While trapped, the survivor can not see the auras of boxes and can't interact with them, just like Freddy's way with alarm clocks. There is no danger while the reverse trap is disabled.

    So Rule Set No.2 as a base kit and even better, because you can't touch the boxes if the "game" isn't started. I've always found it senseless that survivors have the ability to take off the disabled trap.

    • Generator's completion turns on the trap. The survivor now can see auras of boxes and can interact with them. The game has started.

    It would be great if the Hello Zepp soundtrack starts playing at that time. The soundtrack is cut for the timer length, and the anxiety of it changes due to the bulb's light color and time remaining.

    SEARCHING JIGSAW BOXES

    • To remove an RBT, a Survivor must search 3 out of 4 Jigsaw Boxes OR 4 out of 5 if there is an add-on for additional boxes.


  • Tekno_BadgerTekno_Badger Member Posts: 526

    This literally just encourages survivors to get on gens

  • Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223
    edited September 2021

    Rule set no.2 is a terrible add-on that swaps amazing slowdown for barely increasing lethality, and I hate it. I would hate it if it became basekit.


    Also that 3/4 4/5 box thing is already a part of the rework above.

  • Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223

    I completely forgot the unsheathing noise. Yes, remove that. Kill it. It's annoying as hell.

    I think the crouch speed change would help with survivors who leave the loop and let you catch up to them faster, but it's something that might need to be seen in-game to see the benefits of. Fake the dash, uncrouch and chase to condition them to stay at loops so you can dash. I might be too optimistic that this would work admittedly

    True, the shotgun collar might be a bit too awkward to Counterplay. The correct counterplay in my head is to have a survivor help you do the box, and stay near that survivor if they get in chase. Maybe even run across the map using the 60-seconds to find someone else to tag along with. It's trading the gen slowdown for keeping survivors running together, so I wanted it to be annoying enough to be worth the trade.

    It might be better if it revealed the aura of Survivors while not within 16m of any of them, to make it less annoying. But I was worried that might be too big of a nerf, that'd make it useless

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,069

    The problem I see with the collar is that it will promote surv to spread and so gens would go faster.It would be bettet that collar make surv not be able to separate too much time from rescuer or another surv.

  • wayneradiotvwayneradiotv Member Posts: 26

    The Shotgun Collar idea is dope, probably should be a pink instead of a purple though?

  • JAZC_CRJAZC_CR Member Posts: 207

    agree with many thinks, but the pig need more RBT like 6 or 7

  • Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223

    You're not wrong, but she already had 2 red add-ons that I thought were as deserving of being red. If I could give her 3, I would, but 2 is standard.

  • DBD78DBD78 Member Posts: 2,855

    Many good suggestions here. It would be very fair to reduce her TR to 28 meters, then with whispers you could be more stealthy without having to use monitor and abuse.

  • Tekno_BadgerTekno_Badger Member Posts: 526

    Idk about removing the noise altogether, just make it occur later on in the animation. Pig already bullies at lower levels, if she could sneak up and get grabs just as easily as Ghost Face it'd be brutal. The noise is also necessary for Ambush counterplay.

    The crouch speed change wouldn't be enough if you run the numbers. Honestly there's no reason to nerf charge time, it could even be buffed imo. Conditioning them like that is already a big part of her Ambush play, especially at higher levels, I'm just worried that if you make it 1s it'll be brutal to use at higher levels, especially once they learn to time it and not fall for like a 0.2s charge. The biggest issues with her Ambush are the numbers. It takes too long to crouch, doesn't last long enough, and charging time isn't quick enough to surprise them.

    As for the collars, I agree that'd be the counterplay, but that slowdown would be so extreme if your partner gets in chase, and it'd literally drag you into the chase. Eventually Pigs will just learn that they can catch the collar partner in a terrible spot because they literally have to follow you when you chase their buddy. A shotgun collar add-on would be pretty fun, but I think you should go in a different direction for it. The 16m reveal idea isn't bad actually, it'd give you an immense amount of info, and they'd still be forced to leave gens and slow themselves down if they want to stop it.

    Also, I'm curious what your thoughts are on my Pig rework, you should be able to find it on my profile if you're interested.

  • Inferno427Inferno427 Member Posts: 223

    it's more that i wanted to remove the sheath noise, but I forgot.


    since you asked,

    i dont like the crouched movement speed being faster then survivor run speed with add-ons. that was a point I decided to stick with when increasingbase movement speed, that the limiting factor of the ambush dash shouldn't be being able to crouch at survivors, that it was a measure of counterplay that you couldn't gain distance

    Im not a huge fan of a slow crouch/uncrouch, i'd prefer the instant, but I guess it's counterbalanced by the fast charge speed.

    i dislike the automatic trap activation, because it partly takes away from her slowdown by making the team not need to work together to delay gens, but I guess its better lethality.

    i don't like the trap removal still being rng, but the weighted system is much better then the current system.

    i don't think search time needs to be reduced at all. i think the default time is fine.

    those ambush speed/duration addons are very overpowered. increased duration and speed scales very fast, they can be individual add-ons maybe.

    i dislike triple sets of add-ons. there's no need to have 3 to increase crouched movement speed, 3 for ambush speed and 3 to reduce search times. at most, with 2 you can combine them. having 3 is a waste of add-on slots.

    tamperered timer does not need a buff at all, it should be removed. you're just encouraging low effort playstyles by buffing it, particularly with the automatic trap activation. same with pig seeing the timers, it's fitting for the lore, but from a gameplay standpoint it's not good.

    pausing the timer if pig is too close to a box is a good idea.

    letting the last survivor escape is good.

    utility blades and shattered syringe changes are neat, but you have 3 addons for reduced successful ambush dashes, I think having some for missed dashes are a good learning tool.

    status effect changes are good.

    amanda's letter might be too strong with that change. wraith's similar add-on is annoying and strong enough at 12m. removing debuffs is good tho

    amanda's secret is just the same as the letter but worse, I feel that devalue's the iridescent's uniqueness and is unecessary

    rule set no.2 change is pretty fun tho.

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