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mmr aside, the grade & reward system is... quite absurd.

MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437
edited September 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

While I understand what the idea behind the grades etc is, it is quite absurd.

This system rewards people for playing a lot. not good or bad, just a lot. and if you play a lot, you have the grade red 1 amount of BP in manyfold.

This is, again, quite absurd.

while this also means new players only have to play excessively (which isn't really a good thing), it also means that people long past fully maxing out their characters are... left without anything, really.

Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on

Comments

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    Has this been proven? That the grade system is based on how much you play and nothing else? I haven't heard that before.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    not the mmr system, that is still hidden.

    but the grade which determine the rank-reset rewards is purely time played:

    As survivor, the average, decently played game usually rewards one pip (regardless if you survive or not, you just have to survive long enough and do some things (e.g. just doing totems and some unhooking and healing is actually enough for a pip. gens not required). while you can still lose pips, you cannot go down a grade.

    So, let's say you play decently as survivor, getting one pip every match or every other match. how long would it take to red 1?

    With killer it's similar:

    hooking all survivors at least once, hooking one or two of them twice is usually enough for a pip.

  • MylaMyla Member Posts: 1,551

    I noticed that you can't derank at all like I just had two miserable matches in Red rank but the pip is just stuck at zero.

  • MylaMyla Member Posts: 1,551

    Thing is all about the rank or grade was always been about who plays the most, People like to pretend rank means something back then but it was only how much time you invested. The only difference is you get reward for playing now.

    Also the thing I don't like about the grades is having to reset back to Ash IV every month? Yeah I'm not grinding back to red ranks again lmao. The amount of frustration I had getting potatoes back to back and often times getting a safety pip because of various reasons. Yeah no way I'm doing this again - I spent days grinding to red ranks.

    I'm fine with Killer though, I can get consistent double pips.

  • KurriKurri Member Posts: 1,599

    It's literally Ranks but renamed grades, and they removed the ability to de-rank.

    Ranks/Grades never were an example of a players skill, and never will be.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    The system is all over the place: Why reset everyone back to square one if the ranks are disconnected from the mmr, forcing a re-evaluation each month?

    The better system would be to have the 'grade' be only visible on the character screen, give us data about where each character with a certain combo is ranken in the mmr and bring back the old ranks as additional matchmaking variable, as in 'hey, if you are red ranks you'll start the next round at ash IV against other purple and red ranks'

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 1,599

    The previous system had the same issue, whether people want to admit it or not - it was ridiculously easy to turn a few hours into ranks up regardless of role. "Rank means nothing" has never been more true, but that doesn't detract from that being apt before the change as well.

    On the rewards, though, you definitely have merit.

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    I guess I'm just confused. I believe that YOU all believe what you're saying (and I don't mean to imply that you're wrong), I'm just not really clear on exactly how it's all supposed to work still. So much of it remains a mystery, or contradictory, that I'm not sure how to interpret the whole thing. In general my matches have been better, but I still get the occasional total curb-stomper and wonder what I did or didn't do differently to trigger it.

  • RepostRiposteRepostRiposte Member Posts: 793
    edited September 2021

    Is this not exactly what we had before and what was promised by the devs? Like I know DBD is a casual game with a revolving-door playerbase, especially after the last few chapters have increased its popularity by a lot but I'm always impressed by how the forums have ~2 weeks before they completely neglect facts.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    The MMR is, at least supposedly separate from the Grades.

    BUT

    What is happening right now is... quite ludicrous:

    You have the Grades and let's call what the MMR seems to be working with Levels.

    The Grades rise steadily as you play and get reset every month.

    Now, what SHOULD happen, and what we were PROMISED and what interestingly sorta worked during the tests is this:

    Levels determine your matchups, Grades pretty much just measure how long you play and the speed of the increase might add into your level. When the grade reset comes you should be back at ash4 BUT still be matched against people of your skilllevel.

    what, however IS happening by all means:

    What's stated before that Grades are just fancier ranks that however SOMEHOW prevent matchmaking between too varied Levels while simultaneously NOT matching up equal levels.


    I can't begin to fathom how you'd even manage to code this. Anyone remember the old simpsons episode where homer causes a nuclear fallout in a simulation with NO atomic material? This is that.

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    Yeah like I said this whole thing is still really confusing. At least I think so, anyway. I know that people have spoken recently about some kind of leak that allegedly proved or disproved some things about this whole system but I also saw mention that it's not really an encouraged subject so I won't go into it. I'll just say that while at the moment my games have been largely fine, if not in fact improved from before, it's obvious that not everyone can say the same. It's got to be really difficult to find a balance here.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    May I ask what rank you were commonly in before the change, and your usual playstyle. I want to test a theory

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    Before the MM change I seemed to hover around rank 12 on average as solo survivor (my main choice). That was a combination of my, well, I suppose mid-level skill coupled with the fact that I didn't try very hard once I got to the next rank, which is when things started getting noticeably more aggressive.

    Which in turn leads to your second question, which is that my playstyle is stealthy. I do gens, I do saves, I heal, I do totems, I even occasionally run interference, but on the whole I prefer to interact with the killer as little as possible. I find that to be much more fun. As such I rely almost primarily on aura perks and averaged maybe 15,000 per match because I lost out on chase / boldness points (which the game seemed to reward more aggressively than actually doing gens, which is weird, but I digress).

    Can't quite remember where I was at as killer - probably around the same - but that one was hard to calculate because I'm an unusual killer, I enjoy sparing survivors just as much as killing them. For whatever it's worth when I'm killer I play Doc almost exclusively and have noticed that when I DO for kills I get 4Ks fairly regularly.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    Thank you, mike.

    This matches with other things I have read when it comes to who has good and who has bad experience with MMR:

    People who played to their best skills before (whether they were better at stealth or at chases), and who were decently fair to survivors as killer, and who generaly stayed around green ranks seem to have the best average mmr experience in terms of matchmaking. While people who were dead-set on humiliating wins at all costs (including being red ranks come what may) seem to have the worst experience.

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 7,704

    I have 3k hours and still not done maxing out my characters. Just them adding Pinhead alone adds 16 million BP to grind out. Every little bit helps.

  • JawsIsTheNextKillerJawsIsTheNextKiller Member Posts: 3,135

    There does seem to be some confusion here. The ranks are renamed grades so people don't associate them with how good you are at the game. They are now just a side quest, a grind purely for bloodpoints at the end of the month.

    The MMR system is also not a ranking system, its goal is to put good players with other good players and new players with other new players (and all the things inbetween).

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,498

    It is literally the same as the old rank system with exception to no deranking...

  • Buily09Buily09 Member Posts: 2,769

    I think they should 2x the rewards at least or give some few shards while at it.

    I mean to get red grade requeres many hours per month to get there. If you play both sides it is even longer.

    Like 500K points is of course nice but I think players playing that offten should get some more. It is better than nothing at least.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 12,670

    The reward system should toss out Iri shards or Auric Cells. Not Bloodpoints.

    People that play a lot, already get a lot of bloodpoints for playing a lot.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,498

    It is never enough, Tsulan. Bloodpoints are bloodpoints. Like, yes, shards would be dope. But I will take what I can get. Even just 69 bloodpoints will help. That code is perfect for beginner players who will need hundreds of millions of bloodpoints just to unlock perks. Word up.

  • Dino7281Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,294
    edited September 2021

    Not really.

    You can lose a pip, unless you are rank 1 or lucky enough that you have 0 pips.

    Thing is that you keep your rank during month, but instead for reset to rank 5 you get reset to 20. Each month.

    I wonder how many resets will it take before players give up. My guess is 2-3.

    Sorry, but 250k is nothing (5 webs). Yes, you can get it for both roles, but I doubt there will be players capable to reach rank 1 in both roles each month. Avarage reward will be around 350k.

    That is reward for a lot of sweaty games based on something you are going to lose each month.

    But people still have need to reach red rank, so Grade makes game more sweaty more than SBMM imo. Lot of players want to get there asap. Using best perks, items, addons, offerings and playstyles. So free hatch will be way more rare thing.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,229

    Is there any way to gain blood points that isn't just "play more, get more points"?

    Technically if you play better, you'll get to high grades quicker, so it's no different to grinding out Challenges, or doing Daily Rituals, or just playing... more... matches.

  • jajay119jajay119 Member Posts: 292

    Not proven but it supports my experience where my level was at bronze when I logged in with a few days gap between each session.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,229
    edited September 2021

    We know how the grade system works, there's nothing to 'prove' or disprove, it's a fact of the system.

    You gain and lose pips just like the old rank system.

    You can't go down a grade, so you can lose pips within a grade, but if you're at Grade... Gold III and have zero pips, you're safe, but as soon as you gain a pip, that pip is vulnerable to be lost.

    So basically, all you have to do is gain more pips than you lose, within a span of four to five pips, per grade, and you just keep gaining grades.

  • miketheratguymiketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719

    ...If I don't know how the grade system works then it hasn't been proven as fact to me, which is why I asked. I would like to know how and when these facts came to light and what they actually say. All I see are people going on about what liars the folks at BHVR are.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    That's mostly cause some people confuse the GRADES with the MMR system. The MMR, no one knows for certain how it works (also apparently the codedive that CLAIMS to have found how it works was for the GRADES not the MMR). It might even be that the code for the matchmaking isn't even in the game's code (which IS possible in some cases).

    The Grades however are very much

    'play a decent game, play fair, and play a lot' That's it to the Grades.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,229
    edited September 2021

    Are you confusing Grades and SBMM?

    Grades are literally what you see. 20 levels, 3-5 pips per grade, reset on the 13th of the month. Can't de-grade, can de-pip, earning/losing pips is the same as always. Done.

    It's like saying "prove to me what a perk does", when the perk literally tells you.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    I get mike, though, and it's the core of the issue:

    To so many people Grades and SBMM/MMR are the same, when they aren't.


    What might work well would be having the GRADE on the survivor/killer pages etc, and the actual SKILLLEVEL ONLY on the individual character portraits. And heck, maybe even show that. The game apparently CAN tell if you are playing bad on purpose, so trying to de-level could lead to facing players much stronger than you. It's technically possible, and would help with a lot of confusion

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,229
    edited September 2021

    "Skill level" is designed to be hidden so players can't game the system.


    "To so many people Grades and SBMM/MMR are the same, when they aren't."

    To put it simply, those people are wrong. Correct them, problem solved.

  • MeltingPenguinsMeltingPenguins Member Posts: 3,437

    what others and I are trying.


    As for the skilllevel:

    As said, it is technically possible to prevent 'gaming' the system by using the games mechanics to recognize bad playing. it's fiddly, sure and of course as basically everything that could improve the game it requires ironing out the code, BUT it is possible to have a system in place that can tell between a player playing genuine bad or genuinely losing out on points out of being nice, and one that plays badly to fool the system to get easier matches.

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