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Patrick's response to "What is a Win?"

AstrianAstrian Member Posts: 299
edited October 2021 in General Discussions

Patrick, the lead game designer answered the question during the Q&A "What is a 'win'" according to Dead by Daylight's gameplay.

He replied in an objectively questionable way, subjectively somewhat mocking way that it doesn't matter how well you did, if you died you died, and if you escaped / killed a bunch, you win.

One of the things he said was,

...That's all MMR is trying to do, it goes, 'we know that you died' it's ignoring how you got there because there's too much nuance to be able to make a real effective system, and we just ignore that.

Listen Patrick, buddy. I get what you're saying, and I understand why it needs to be like that. Buddy, you don't just go out there with however much prep time you had and essentially tell a community full of people questioning your system, "Yeah you could be the best player on the team, but if you died our system recognizes you as trash"

I appreciate the honesty from BHVR for once, but really? Was there really no better way of saying this? Everybody is quoting this one segment just because of how poor of a response this was.

Please, get someone to proofread your responses ahead of time because wow that whole segment was a trainwreck.



  • I get the impression that he was trying to say good players are the ones that escape as soon as possible... i don't know what to think of that.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,350

    Is it?

    I have a lot of gripes (Wraith nerf, about 2/3 of killer perks being completely useless and half the killers being mediocre, cheaters, SBMM quirks, Haddonfield) - but compared to when I started playing just over a year ago, it's so, so much better.

  • th3th3 Member Posts: 1,711

    You can’t look at one person and go “this is the reason why this game is in such a bad state” when it’s in the best state it’s ever been in.

  • NomaddNomadd Member Posts: 167

    Still, just because it's in 'best state ever', doesn't mean the game is in good state. Just the way he was talking about MMR...

  • El_GingeroEl_Gingero Member Posts: 1,147

    He definitely came across pretty badly that’s for sure.

  • AxxAxx Member Posts: 386
    edited October 2021

    The only way to truly determine a survivor player's skill is by chase time. The only truly skillful thing is being capable of running a killer. Everything else a 10 hour player can do just as good as a 5k hour player. Hook saves, healing, and doing gens are not indicative of skill. Sure there are things like body blocking but I would assume it would be hard to determine what was an actual good body block or someone trying to farm MMR with it.

    On killer it is much easier to indicate skill. Chase time, hits, hooks, kills and to a degree, gen repair delay. Survivor just has so much down time that there really isn't much to go off of if we are being honest. The killer is always doing something to display their skill.

  • SlothGirlySlothGirly Member Posts: 1,146

    I think people are missing the fundamental point that this mmr brings.

    Yes in the short term it may seem that good players will be punished for not escaping as they may hypothetically die. However in the long term what this will do is bring all the players to a point where they escape in 50% of games and die in 50% of their games, which is the ultimate goal of mmr. And over time due to laws of averages and what the mmr defines a win, this will happen.

    It's easy to say on a case by case basis that yes a good player may be punished for not escaping. However that's what multiple games are for, your mmr isn't defined by a single match. It's defined by the collection of every single game you ever play.

    Players need to stop being so narrow minded and see the bigger picture of what this style of mmr actually does for the game.

  • EqMonkVeeshanEqMonkVeeshan Member Posts: 416

    so basically since the MMR system for survivors is not based off the entire team of survivors its based off the single individual. when can we expect survivor perks to be balanced as 1 vs the killer?

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 1,450

    I thought his answer was reasonable, and I didn't find it mocking. He said that the goal of the system is to bring you to a 50% escape rate -- that, even if you're doing lots of great stuff during the match, they would rather you were able to do that stuff and escape at least half the time. To me, that sounds totally fair.

    I also don't think that having your MMR lowered is a punishment, or a judgement against you -- it's literally just an attempt to find a match where you have an equal chance to survive or not. And I don't see how that's a bad thing.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,579

    Losing doesn't make you trash. This is just for better matchmaking... No need to take it so personal. If someone hook trades against Leatherface instead of just escaping... Maybe they SHOULD be in lower bracket matches to where they can potentially play the same way and still manage an escape. No?

  • C3ToothC3Tooth Member Posts: 4,881
    edited October 2021

    I dont think increase SBMM is "rewarded" as you will face better survivors.

    I dont think a Killer who play fair and do well that the first dead is at his 8-9th hook and have 3 escape should get higher SBMM; than Killer who tunnel/camp and get 2k with 2-3 hooks.

    If the system keeps the tunnel/camp Killer's SBMM low, everyone will just tunnel & camp since it gives them both kills and low mm to satisfy their need. Thats when the game truly death for Solo players.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,281

    What it does for the game is make matches even worse. I used to sit in purple ranks as survivor. It was pretty decent. I could play fairly chill, had okay teammates and generally decent matches. All that has gone out the window. This system is trash, pure and simple.

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 275

    Victory must have a clear definition with clear criteria. And some of the players may not like this definition, and that's okay.

    The developer's current answer is similar to that of a young child. And this is very upsetting (

  • blue4zionblue4zion Member Posts: 2,440

    Baffling and disappointing.

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