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Gen Rushing is an Excuse for Bad Killers.

Many times this week I have been told to "rush gens harder" or something of the sort every time my team escapes. Disregarding the fact that many of these killers had meta slowdown (Ruin + UD, Ruin + Pop, etc.) it always seems that the killer doesn't recognize their mistakes but blames the survivors for their loss. And to a degree, yes, survivors make the killer lose, but only when outplaying them consistently. I see a lot of people claim that "survivors are the power role in high play", and while survivors are very strong in that level, its not the whole picture. People seem to forget the fact that *good survivors should escape*. The reason these people aren't dying is because they're very experienced and know the game in and out. They know how to adapt and play based on the situation. Now, why do I bring this up? Because many killer mains will refer to this to discredit survivors. To say "you have it easier than I do, hence your opinion is invalid". And to that I have to say, you're not going against comp squads EVERY match. Sometimes you just lose and you have to accept that. And I know others will say "well what about this?" and list all the busted items survivors can bring. But also you're not going against that every game. Because if you were you probably wouldn't be complaining about gen rushing still.

Killers refuse to just say "gg you guys did good" and want to thrash survivors for just playing the game. Survivor mains do this too, and I've experienced both on an equal amount. But the thing about is that killers are in control for a majority of how the match plays out. You are the opposing force. The killer you choose and the way you play will change the flow of the match. Its when you let survivors have control that you start to lose. And before you even start, no survivors do not control the flow of the match. They can loop and juke all they want but really its how you use your killers power and how you play that dictates that flow. You're the one who can corner survivors. You're the one who can kill them, the one who can decide where they run to next. If you know that a survivor is going to go for a vault into the next loop, you want to cut them off from that. But just because you're trying to do something doesn't mean that survivors are going to just give it to you.

I think a lot of killers just expect survivors to roll over and die or run without a plan. And I also believe this is attributed to the skill curve of DBD. They get conditioned into going against lesser opponents to the point where when they meet a challenge they don't know what to do. So they get frustrated and blame the survivor. To remedy this they run the strongest perks they can for easier downs. But a lot of the time I don't see killers use their perks how they should. I've had killers with ruin walk right past me doing a gen to get a down and instead of going back to push me off they just hook instead. I've also had some who full commit to me then wonder why they lost only chasing one person. And their first response to this is "they're genrushing". They don't take accountability for the fact that *they let me do the gen*. They made no attempt to build pressure yet want to complain that they never had a chance to get pressure. Do you expect us to give you health states? To give you hooks? To just not do gens because it'd be nice for you?

I understand that in some scenarios that its hard to get pressure. Say you get a map that's too big or two survivors ran prove thyself. Something like that. Does it make it harder? Yes. Does it make it impossible? No. Why do you play a 4v1 game and expect to not be challenged by the other side?

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Comments

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 260

    While I agree that skilled survivors can be tricky, it's also the fact that they avoid healing and totems to work through gens that makes it very easy to snowball against them. Many will get cocky knowing that they're about to win and play a little more recklessly. That's the part where you punish them. You make them use resources early and create dead zones. DBD is like tug of war. For every one action you can respond with another. And it's not about who pulls the hardest but more so wearing out your opponent to the point where they can't pull back anymore.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 260

    It's not so defensive as it's trying to disprove a common misconception. I never intended this as a "ur bad and im better" post. More as a message and a few tips on how to avoid losing easily.

  • SleepyWilloSleepyWillo Member Posts: 1,976

    I dont really get the hate for second chance perks or how they auto give health states.

    Second chance perks are bandaid fixes for flawed game mechanics or playstyles which are widely considered "unfun". DS and BT for tunneling and camping, UB for slugging, etc. The only one which I can see as being remotely a "free health state" is DH and even that is easily baited once you know they have it. And yes it can be used for distance but only once like every other exhaustion perk - though DH gives the least amount of distance at that...

    TL:DR - I dont camp, tunnel or slug and never see BT, DH or DS and if I am forced to proc them its rare and ends very badly for the survivors...

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 10,649

    Slamming gens is fairly frequent at high MMR.

    I see good gen progression in every other game.

    I see actual 'gen rush' in maybe one in every six games. Not too often.

  • FreeshamFreesham Member Posts: 260

    Plenty of survivors escape all the time without second chance perks.

  • illusionillusion Member Posts: 799

    Even with meta perks, gens times are a problem. And, since the meta perks can be removed from the match early, it's even worse. The killer says that out of frustration. It's not the fault of the survivors that they can gen rush, it is the fault of the game design. Likewise, your idea that it is just because the killer got outplayed, is flawed. There is not some great skill involved in gen rushing. You didn't out play the killer, you just used the mechanics that favor survivor success. Killers have to play sweaty in order to be successful. Gen rushing does not require any great gameplay by the survivors, it is just a time factor. Given equal amounts of skill, the game is the survivors' to win or lose. They have the control, not the killer.

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,283
    edited October 2021

    On high tier killers. it ain't so much the dh thing...

    Now lets talk about the walking m1 killers... the ones that Have to pallet loop with survivors.. they don't even stand remotely a chance against even High Mmr survivors..

    Dh is Really powerful and people don't even realize it,

    Not all Second chance perks...

    You can't really outplay Dh if they wanna use it for distance and get to another pallet loop..

    You can't really outplay the Ds / Unbreak together without eating one.. or the other,

    You need to make sure as killer you'll get a chase in less than 15-20 seconds, otherwise bruteforce it and try again on a diff survivor..

    At High Mmr it's quite....Brutal to say the least

    Edit: And to SleepyWillo. sure you can Not camp Tunnel or Slug, but you will when it involves a whole ass Sweat Game..

  • SleepyWilloSleepyWillo Member Posts: 1,976

    I think the difference is that the killer doesnt know they dont have them... If there were no second chance perks in the game then you would see the difference

  • DemonDaddyDemonDaddy Member Posts: 3,110

    Gens speeds are an issue when both sides are playing well. If both play with peak efficiency then by devs balance ideals 2 survivors would still die.

    When survivors play well; chases can be extended well beyond the time it takes for a single gen and at least one gen is always in progression.

    When killers play well; there is no guarantee that downs come quickly only that loops are reduced to the minimal # of rounds before pallets drop or breaking off to a new one. Either they can bait out a mistake or brute force until a down is accessible.

    Gen perks do little more than add a set time extension if the prerequisites are not met to use them consistently;

    Ruin only effects the one survivor in chase

    Pop only helps if downs can be secured before gen completion

    Deadlock is useful only if a second gen has progression

    Corrupt secures a section of the map for a short time

  • SaitamfedSaitamfed Member Posts: 1,387

    Well, whether it's true that some killers doesn't recognize their mistakes, you also have t orecognize that the killer itself is not really as different as survivor (specially those called M1 killers), so basically if you didn't set trap as the trapper is like having a survivor moving slightly faster against 4 survivors repairing gens. The vast majority of survivors are not good, that's why they always lose... or when you're good but paired with 3 potatoes... there's so much you can do. That's why we have the two sides, the vast majority complaining to killers being OP but not realizing they're just bad, and the other part of high MMR killers that complains about 3 min matches.

  • YamaokaYamaoka Member Posts: 4,165

    It depends.

    Some killers really do not recognize their misplays in chase and some even fail to realize what an overly short match is (A Legion once said "gen rush" after a typical 10 minute game).

    However if the killer blatantly goes out of their way to not tunnel, camp or slug throughout the entire match ("fair killer") and the first thing you do is complete a gen after getting unhooked even before healing up typically resulting in short matches where everyone ends the match with low points then yeah I agree - that's just rushing your objective/gens despite the fact you're putting yourself at risk and reducing gameplay for everyone in the match.

    You get shorter chases, teammates get less altruism, the killer gets less chase points. That's just being scummy to everyone in the match.

    If the killer tunnels everyone off the hook at 5 gens whilst running every slowdown perk in the book then I get it - you have to ignore everything and do gens asap if you want a chance to escape but what I'm saying is nearly all survivors couldn't care less what the killer brings or what they play like.

    They'll try to fly through the gens as quickly as possible rushing their objective even if the killer is not rushing their objective and hooking every survivor equally.

  • VampwireVampwire Member Posts: 260

    Gen rushing is a result of poor time management by the killer and if they cannot build pressure then the survivors played better. It's really as simple as that in most cases. Like I already stated killers change the flow of the chase and can lock down gens to be more advantageous to what they want. The neglect of doing so is what makes killers lose. Yet again, denial of responsibility for the killer role.

    There are very few things that you can use to "rush gens". There's prove thyself and toolboxes but that's it. Anything else is the killer not taking charge of their objective and being punished for doing so.

  • NayruNayru Member Posts: 569

    i got recommended a video by yt recently that was pertinent, any thoughts op?


  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 4,671
  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 4,167
    edited October 2021

    I mean... that's how it should be and that's still a very win-able game he had. Corrupt gave him a loose 3 gen at shack, 2 o'clock, and main. Plus he kicked most of the strong pallets on the whole right side of the map in the first chase. It's a dead zone at that point.

    So now he has a loose 3 gen, Pig traps, and PGTW. If killers can't win that or at least get a 2k out of it, they need to improve their game sense. Lose Tinkerer since he's on Pig and tracking perks are pointless in high level play. Take NOED or a chase perk. 4k.

  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 469

    Fun fact otz did an experiment with a 4 man with no perks and just items.... needless to say you dont need 2nd chance perks to escape but adding them just makes survivor more op than they already need to be. They got knocked down from their god role when infinites and half the pallets were removed... how about me knock them down from demi-god role to immortal, the same as killer

  • illusionillusion Member Posts: 799

    No, it's not a matter of poor time management by the killer. Gen times are too short. You can finish gens in a short period of time without even having perks or items to improve that. Plus, most killers just don't have the tools to effectively build pressure, no matter how sweaty they play. The idea that the only reason a killer can't build pressure is because the survivors played better is based on ignorance of game mechanics and how the various killers play. Whether that is genuine, or feigned due to survivor sided bias, I can't say. Again, there is no skill involved in gen rushing. Given players of equal skill, eliminating your one side outplayed the other scenario, survivors win.

  • RenRenRenRen Member Posts: 945

    Doesn't the title literally have the Us. Vs Them mentally in it?

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 4,671
  • RenRenRenRen Member Posts: 945

    Is saying genrushing an excuse for bad players? Sure some of them say that sure. But is genrushing a thing? Yes.

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