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Only noob survivors complain about noed.

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  • HawkAyeTheNooHawkAyeTheNoo Member Posts: 726

    True.

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008
    edited October 2021

    Its not reliable to hit a survivor while he could have or not BT or DH or Soul Guard,MoM,styptic agent....Killers have to expect those things but as surv cant expect to have NOED? Specially playing vs some killers...Most bubbas have NOED ( like 95% ) and when you see how a player plays you can feel that perk slot with NOED.

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008

    Nooo we want our 4 escapes :( also killers cant 4k !!!:(

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008

    The most funny part is that totems have more or less same spawn and you know there wont be 2 totems on same area so u can pinpoint where is the other one.

    Im main killer and I do my bones.

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008
    edited October 2021

    70/4 survs 20 secs rounded :)

    Walking to them...well you basically find it next to your objective or even next to you so how much 20 secs between you all? Being uncordinated as hell

    No need to add the "I know spawns factors"

  • UnknownKillerUnknownKiller Member Posts: 2,008

    Thats cuz in Solo no poor soul do em unlesd you wanna focus on it.I really really hardly see someone doing a totem.

  • MalikenMaliken Member Posts: 166

    NOED ‘rewarding killers for playing poorly’ is an ironic statement when survivors have access to perks like Dead Hard and Unbreakable.

  • supersonic853supersonic853 Member Posts: 4,254
    edited October 2021

    My question is from a 50/50 standpoint what happens if you run it on a killer like nurse who does very well on her own and amasses so much pressure even perkless? Survivors realistically don't have the time to out noed because of the pressure a nurse spirit or blight can output naturally. So its pretty much a guarantee to run into it there.

    Next example is everyones favorite facecamping bubba. You got 2 minutes to get them gens done before the first survivor dies. Which is mathematically impossible in some scenarios. Then he gets a second one sometimes depending on time. Then you finally got the gens done and the doors ready to open then here comes that bubba with noed to take a 3rd.

    I hate noed where it actually shows little options to avoid it or just feels dumb. As a killer do i run it? Nope i don't feel its consistent or the kills from it are deserved. But people can play how they want.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,507

    im gonna have to disagree quite hard on a lot of the things you just said.

    first of all, no the very first seconds of a trial (and im talking about the first couple of seconds here - im not telling you to throw your entire early game to go on a big totem hunt, as you were implying) are definitely not the most important gen repair seconds. I would even argue that its a better idea to keep a low profile early on and go for a totem instead, so the Killer, when they come around to see if someone is working on that gen of yours, sees it has no progress on it, starts panicking and leaves in a hurry to check on the other gens, giving you a lot more time to work on it uninterrupted before he returns.

    people jumping on gens right away are usually the ones found, chased and hooked first.

    also, you got options to communicate with your team regarding totems. Early game chat for example - or, in the very understandable case that you dont trust that to work, you can always bring something that helps you with this task, such as Detectives Hunch, Small Game or a Map. Once again, your decision.

    If totems were there to be a timesink for survivors, then NOED's current design is the exact opposite of what it should be.

    listen, im not gonna pretend like NOED was a greatly designed Perk. it has its flaws, but one thing it does very well is to do exactly what you are currently claiming it wouldnt do: drawing attention to Dull Totems.

    without NOED, there would literally not be any reason for Survivors to ever touch a Dull Totem in their trials, so no one would waste time on cleansing them. with NOED however, you now have an incentive to destroy them, therefore sink time into them - or get punished.

    You did five totems, but the killer didn't have it? Congrats, you threw the game.

    not true. well, unless you had a team that played badly and allowed the Killer to apply tons of map pressure. also, this quite conveniently ignores everything i said about deducting a Killers Perk build (but more on that in a bit) to determine whether cleansing is worth your time or not.

    You did no totems, but the killer did have it? Congrats, you threw the game.

    if you think NOED is singlehandedly gonna win the Killer the game, then that tells me some things about you as a player. Realistically, NOED should, even after it activated, not do much more for the Killer than getting them a single Kill during endgame. If you run back to save your friend despite knowing of NOEDs existance, that is entirely on you. just open the gate and leave, thats how easily you can counter it.

    You did four totems, but the killer got it anyway? *Congrats, you threw the game!*

    same thing applies as above. in addition, due to you having gotten rid of 4 totems already, deducting the 5th totems location shouldnt be too hard of a task.

    The counter itself is plagued with a terrible cost/payoff ratio, which is why 'doing bones' is such a dumb response.

    considering how quickly you can be done with all gens, this extra minute (if it even adds up to one) really isnt that big of a deal. it might get the Killer like two more hooks in - you're still gonna be able to escape with at least 3 pretty consistantly. especially now that MMR is a thing.

    and i am going to repeat myself a third time here: if you dont think the payoff for cleansing bones (so NOED being guaranteed to not activate) is not worth it, then you shouldnt be complaining when it does activate.

    thats about the same logic as a Killer hardtunneling someone off the hook, saying "nah they wont have DS!", just to get struck by it and then complaining about the Survivor using the Perk - even though all they had to do in that situation was not to hardtunnel them and they would have been fine.

    And no, deducing four killer perks is a rarity

    speak for yourself here, but i can do that pretty reliantly.

    couple of examples:

    Gens start blocked off? Corrupt Intervention.

    Killer beelines you after freshly hooking someone? BBQ.

    Killer loses his heartbeat all of a sudden? Tinkerer.

    You get revealed for being near a Dull Totem / a Hex gets cleansed but you are still affected by Ruin? Hex: Undying (or any other Hex for that matter, fact is that wont be a NOED and its gone now anyway)

    Killer beelines your gen when you've been working on it with someone else? Discordance

    Killer has an unnaturally low TR? Monitor & Abuse

    Killer is kicking gens a lot & they spark red? Pop Goes The Weasel

    Killer keeps searching your area, despite you being hidden well and them not knowing you are there? Whispers

    there are many more, but you should be getting the point. and on top of all that, Killers have tons of Perks that straight up introduce themselves to you, such as, but not limited to: literally any Hex, Thanatopobia, Sloppy Butcher, Unnerving Presence, Starstruck, ...

    ini fact, its actually a rarity for a Killer Perk to have its effects hidden from everyone in a way that makes you think it might be a NOED.

    but what about a killer with Enduring dodging all stuns?

    just out of curiousity: why in the world would anyone do that?

    If a killer does a good job putting on pressure

    sorry, i think you meant to say "if the Survivors allow the Killer to apply a lot of map pressure"? Cause the Killer is definitely NOT the on in charge of how quickly gens go.

    NOED is the single worst-designed perk in the game and needs a rework. Badly.

    ill agree that it needs some changes. but the Totem aspect of it is something that has to stay.

    In fact, i think the biggest change it needs is for it to be MORE punishing towards teams that ignored Totems all game over teams that Cleansed some, but not all.

    a simple fix would be to just have every Dull Totem on the map light up with NOED once endgame triggers.

  • ShroompyShroompy Member Posts: 3,362

    If 20 seconds wasn't that big of a deal then PGTW wouldn't be that popular of a perk now wouldn't it?

  • GladonosGladonos Member Posts: 392

    Hot take: NOED is the same as Haunted Grounds. So obviously since they are the exact same perk make NOED only last 60 seconds. No problem since they are the same.

  • ShadowRainShadowRain Member Posts: 607

    Agreed

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,895

    On a tangent I wonder what the average length of the Exit stage of the game is (i.e. the length of time from when the last generator is completed to the end of the match). It's definitely shorter than the period when the generators are being worked on, but I'm not sure what the duration is. It could be as short as, say, 30 seconds if the survivors just open the gates and run straight out, or it could be as long as 2-3 minutes if the survivors are sticking around hoping to save someone from a hook or trying to look for items or whatever. How much impact a 60 second time limit on NOED would actually have depends on that Exit stage duration.

  • deckyrdeckyr Member Posts: 595
    edited October 2021

    all i wish is that NOED (& also devour hope) told you it was active immediately instead of needing to be discovered by someone taking a hit.

    secret exposed status is just too powerful. it's just too powerful! people need to know that they have no more first chances without someone being the literal sacrificial lamb.

    saw someone say "noone complains about haunted grounds". yeah, it's because HG tells you you're exposed upfront. cmon.

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 2,124

    first of all, no the very first seconds of a trial (and im talking about the first couple of seconds here - im not telling you to throw your entire early game to go on a big totem hunt, as you were implying) are definitely not the most important gen repair seconds. I would even argue that its a better idea to keep a low profile early on and go for a totem instead, so the Killer, when they come around to see if someone is working on that gen of yours, sees it has no progress on it, starts panicking and leaves in a hurry to check on the other gens, giving you a lot more time to work on it uninterrupted before he returns.

    You really assume that every single survivor spawns immediately on top of a different totem each, and you think this is somehow a realistic scenario?

    I was talking about the first 60 seconds, not the first 20, what you're talking about is even less realistic!

    also, you got options to communicate with your team regarding totems. Early game chat for example - or, in the very understandable case that you dont trust that to work, you can always bring something that helps you with this task, such as Detectives Hunch, Small Game or a Map. Once again, your decision.

    Oh I always bring DetHunch, and by myself I never have enough time to do all the totems before the gens are gone if the killer sucks. And if the killer is good, I can't abandon my teammates to hunt totems, that'll give the killer way too much pressure. That is, if they don't find me and chase me down, rendering me unable to finish the totem hunting.

    listen, im not gonna pretend like NOED was a greatly designed Perk. it has its flaws, but one thing it does very well is to do exactly what you are currently claiming it wouldnt do: drawing attention to Dull Totems.


    without NOED, there would literally not be any reason for Survivors to ever touch a Dull Totem in their trials, so no one would waste time on cleansing them. with NOED however, you now have an incentive to destroy them, therefore sink time into them - or get punished.

    Except NOED isn't doing the trick, is it?

    And it's to do with the way it's designed. It is incredibly unlikely to be worth doing totems, even in light of NOED's existence, for the reasons I mentioned. NOED is not doing a good job forcing survivors to do totems because A) You don't know if the killer has it, and B) The first four totem cleanses are just as likely to make NOED stronger, instead of weaker.

    not true. well, unless you had a team that played badly and allowed the Killer to apply tons of map pressure. also, this quite conveniently ignores everything i said about deducting a Killers Perk build (but more on that in a bit) to determine whether cleansing is worth your time or not.

    Thanks, assume the killer isn't trash though.

    And we'll get to that deduction stuff later.

    if you think NOED is singlehandedly gonna win the Killer the game, then that tells me some things about you as a player. Realistically, NOED should, even after it activated, not do much more for the Killer than getting them a single Kill during endgame. If you run back to save your friend despite knowing of NOEDs existance, that is entirely on you. just open the gate and leave, thats how easily you can counter it.

    That's what the game says, though, if you're the unlucky one to be found after gen 5 pops. Remember, dying is a loss, the other three getting out doesn't matter. And that's assuming the doors don't spawn real close to each other, with your hook right between them.

    same thing applies as above. in addition, due to you having gotten rid of 4 totems already, deducting the 5th totems location shouldnt be too hard of a task.

    So now on top of having wasted a ton of time, giving the killer free pressure, you also get smacked with NOED meaning someone just lost due to the killer failing for 5 gens long. And imagine you being the one doing four totems and then getting clapped with NOED.

    BUT!

    Here's the bonus round: That fifth totem's location is another point of contention, and another reason NOT to do bones against NOED. After all, those other four totems were ones you managed to find, no?

    But the fifth totem is always the last to be found. Sure, it could just be somewhere you didn't look, but it could also be that one freaking godspawn, lord knows where. And since you destroyed all the totems you COULD find, NOED is forced into the one godspawn totem. You just made NOED -harder- to counter, because you pushed it out of the way into some corner of the map no one can find.

    considering how quickly you can be done with all gens, this extra minute (if it even adds up to one) really isnt that big of a deal. it might get the Killer like two more hooks in - you're still gonna be able to escape with at least 3 pretty consistantly. especially now that MMR is a thing.


    and i am going to repeat myself a third time here: if you dont think the payoff for cleansing bones (so NOED being guaranteed to not activate) is not worth it, then you shouldnt be complaining when it does activate.


    thats about the same logic as a Killer hardtunneling someone off the hook, saying "nah they wont have DS!", just to get struck by it and then complaining about the Survivor using the Perk - even though all they had to do in that situation was not to hardtunnel them and they would have been fine.

    Consider for a moment: You're solo queue, your teammates aren't that good, and the killer isn't trash. It's going to take you way more than a minute to get all five totems done. Remember, you're solo, you have no idea what your teammates are doing or where they've been, and you have no way of telling whether all five are gone, or you're just missing one.

    I'm not talking about the pay-off. Blocking NOED is a fine pay-off. I'm talking about the -cost-. It takes WAY too much effort for a solo queue survivor to block NOED via a 5-bone, and the punishment for missing it, no matter how much you miss it by, is gargantuan.

    Yes, all the killer had to do was not hard-tunnel them. Congrats, the killer changed targets. A task undertaken in under a single second, without any need to communicate with teammates you cannot communicate with, and that is incredibly easy to execute with baseline gear. Doesn't really compare well to having to solo 5 totems, does it?

    speak for yourself here, but i can do that pretty reliantly.


    couple of examples:


    Gens start blocked off? Corrupt Intervention.


    Killer beelines you after freshly hooking someone? BBQ.


    Killer loses his heartbeat all of a sudden? Tinkerer.


    You get revealed for being near a Dull Totem / a Hex gets cleansed but you are still affected by Ruin? Hex: Undying (or any other Hex for that matter, fact is that wont be a NOED and its gone now anyway)


    Killer beelines your gen when you've been working on it with someone else? Discordance


    Killer has an unnaturally low TR? Monitor & Abuse



    Killer is kicking gens a lot & they spark red? Pop Goes The Weasel

    Killer keeps searching your area, despite you being hidden well and them not knowing you are there? Whispers


    there are many more, but you should be getting the point. and on top of all that, Killers have tons of Perks that straight up introduce themselves to you, such as, but not limited to: literally any Hex, Thanatopobia, Sloppy Butcher, Unnerving Presence, Starstruck, ...


    ini fact, its actually a rarity for a Killer Perk to have its effects hidden from everyone in a way that makes you think it might be a NOED.

    Thanks for your little list of, what, 20 perks?

    OUT OF OVER 90?

    And look at what you've got listed there, even that is wrong. Killer beelines you after freshly hooking someone? You say BBQ, but how 'bout this one: They guessed.

    What if they just guessed, or figured you out?

    Same with Whispers: What if they caught a glimpse of you, or heard a footstep?

    Killer's terror radius disappears, you say Tinkerer, but what if it's a Pig, or Myers, or Ghostface?

    Particularly intel perks are indistinguishable from a lucky guess or tactical insight. Now you're gambling you and your teammates' lives on guessing whether it was BBQ or just the killer being smart.

    And that's not even going over the fact that certain notable perks can have missable interactions. If you don't see the state of a gen before it's Popped, you don't know how far it regressed from that one kick. You might keep missing the Deadlocked gen. Maybe no one on your team touched a locker and the killer has Iron Maiden. The killer might Spirit Fury a pallet on the other side of the map from you.

    All of this still leaves it squarely in the gambling category. Sure, if you can HARD CONFIRM all four perks (Like that one time I went up against a full hex build hag), then you know there's no NOED. But pretty much any intel perk makes this impossible straight off the bat.

    just out of curiousity: why in the world would anyone do that?

    Because eating a shortened stun is still worse than eating no stun at all.

    sorry, i think you meant to say "if the Survivors allow the Killer to apply a lot of map pressure"? Cause the Killer is definitely NOT the on in charge of how quickly gens go.

    Git gud.

    a simple fix would be to just have every Dull Totem on the map light up with NOED once endgame triggers.

    That'd leave you with the exact same problem, it just makes the -actual- counter for NOED not work anymore.

    Seriously, if you want to fix NOED:

    A) Make it baseline

    B) Make it grant stacking benefits based on the number of totems left

    C) Buff its impact if more than two totems are left

    D) Nerf its impact if there's fewer than two totems left


    NOW it's a 'do totems or die' perk.

    Source: I run DetHunch + Inner Strength all the time, I've blocked one NOED by doing 5 totems, I've blocked tons more by leaving totems up to bait NOED into.

  • idcidc Member Posts: 44

    Tell me how I'm wrong. The perk is designed to save the killer from a losing game meaning they didn't play as well as they should have. I over all don't have a problem with it, but you can't say people are noobs just because they don't like "second chance perks" see what I did there. I made a reference to what killers complain about constantly.

  • idcidc Member Posts: 44

    And i never said you said anything soooooooooooooooo

  • idcidc Member Posts: 44

    And if you're talking about me saying you cant just saying people are noobs because they don't like second chance perks. I was referring to the name of the thread

  • NekoTorvicNekoTorvic Member Posts: 714

    NOED is a perk that gives you a second chance when you have lost, and it requires absolutely nothing of you except equipping a Jpeg.

    Survivors can deal with it, but the design philosophy behind it is trash. It's the same design philosophy that has survivors having 37 million second chances.

    So F noed.

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,084

    It’s one second chance perk killers have that is easily countered by doing totems. Or just leaving the match and letting them have their 1k.

  • NekoTorvicNekoTorvic Member Posts: 714

    I don't care if they're easily countered by survivors looking at the killer funny. I don't want any perks that give the user a massive boost for no cost whatsoever.

    The only perks that deserve being that are perks that give a relatively minor boost, like enduring and unrelenting. Maybe brutal strength.

    All it does is make the survivors feel like they're not going against the killer's skill with their own, they are going against the killer's BS. This is exactly what killers feel about survivors, all the time, because the game is directionless and poorly designed. The mentality that causes noed is the same mentality that causes all the bullshit survivors have.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,615

    If you know where all 5 of them are? Sure, its gone in 1 minute. If you dont know where all 5 of them are, it can take up to 4 minutes, especially if you're not on comms. It takes 2 minutes on average to get all totems with 2 survivors on comms.

    Thats a lot of time.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,615

    Except, they are not very similar. Their only similarity is that they apply an instadown.

    Differences:

    1. Haunted Grounds is done by a survivor making a mistake and cleansing a totem willy nilly. NOED is not.
    2. Haunted Grounds is applied when all survivors are capable of tanking hookstates.
    3. Haunted Grounds doesnt carry bad killers, NOED does(doesnt mean NOED is only used by bad killers)

    It's like comparing Adrenaline and Second Wind. Both are an instaheal. Yet, one has issues, where the other does not.


    Adrenaline and NOED are only balanced when both appear in the same game. Otherwise they have issues. Performing too well as a killer? NOED is simply going to be salt in the wound. Performing too well as a survivor? Adrenaline is just gonna be salt in the wound.

    If those 2 perks worked just slightly differently and had a chance of failing after a certain threshold(aka, Adrenaline being more likely to trigger if you're dead on hook than never being hooked, NOED being less likely to trigger the more totems have been cleansed) Meaning that survivors would need to tank hookstates for their teammates if they want Adrenaline to work, where it also means that Survivors have a chance of not facing NOED if they cleansed totems. Ofcourse, if there are 4 boons, that would mean they only need to destroy one, but at that point they have basically cleansed all totems. BUT, if there are 4 boons active and they didnt cleanse the 5th totem, NOED would still 100% spawn as they didnt cleanse.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 7,895

    1- On the other hand one could argue that survivors opting not to cleanse totems that could turn into NOED knowing that NOED is a perk is similar to survivors opting to cleanse totems knowing that Haunted Grounds is a perk. To some extent either one going off is at least partly or fully the survivor's fault.

    2- Haunted Grounds is applied early in the match when early downs can give you momentum to ultimately potentially stop the gens from being completed in the first place.

    3- NOED doesn't really carry "bad killers" any more than any other perk does. It's just a misperception that the game is "over" when the gens are complete. That's not accurate, though, the game is over when the survivors are all escaped or dead. The notion that downs after the gens are completed are somehow "less valid" than ones before the gens are completed is faulty. A bad killer could get possibly downs with Haunted Grounds early in the match and maybe even get a 2-3 kill as a result, or they could get downs from NOED late in the match and get a 2-3 kill as a result. Neither "carries" bad killers any more than any other reasonably effective perk would. It's all stemming from this idea that downs at the very end of the match are somehow unfair or imbalanced compared to downs at the beginning of the match. But it's all part of the same match, and the match isn't over until the survivors are gone one way or another.

    So yes, they both apply Exposed status for some amount of time during the match, and they both can hypothetically be negated if the survivors either cleanse or don't cleanse totems accordingly. They aren't identical perks, one goes off in the beginning and one at the end of the match, and there are some other technical differences, but they're definitely in the same general group of Hex Perks That Give Exposed Hits During the Match.

  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,507

    okay this is getting out of hand, so ill make this short.

    a lot of your arguments boil down to "but what if my team sucks and the killer is able to apply tons of pressure?" - in that case, you are going to lose. regardless of NOED being a thing or not i might add.

    then there are a lot where you just end up saying "well, in my personal experience ..." - which simply put isnt a valid argument to bring. if YOU are unable to tell which Perks the Killer is running throughout the trial, then that absolutely does not mean it'd be overall impossible for everyone. again, i barely have any trouble with that.

    those arguments are just a huge strawman. and i can essentially run both of us into a neverending stalemate by simply saying things like "okay, but what if your team doesnt suck?" or "okay, but my personal experience is the opposite.".

    plus you were quite effective at ripping my words out of context. i said its POSSIBLE for your team to get rid of 4 totems in the first 20 seconds, not that it'd be a common thing to expect. thats why i said its an overall more beneficial strategy to avoid gens at first until the Killer checked them once, for example by cleansing a totem - something you, very conveniently, chose to ignore and instead focussed on the earlier part.


    and just because this one really annoyed me:

    Thanks for your little list of, what, 20 perks?

    OUT OF OVER 90?

    i literally stated above that there would be many more, that featuring them all would end up making this post too long, that the Perks that DONT have a clear tell to them are actually a vast minority and yet here you are acting like the few i named were all that existed.

    and its not like i'd have to go out of my way to prove this to you either. All you have to do here is, to open the Killer menu, look at the effects the Perks give and then determine whether thats a passive effect that has no clear tell to it (e.g. Monstrous Shrine) or an active effect that makes it quite obvious that the Perk took effect (e.g. Enduring). I'm not going to do that for you.


    im sorry, but i dont think this discussion is worth either of our time any longer.

  • jironimojironimo Member Posts: 4

    I think there is some misconception in these noed threads, doing 5 gens doesn't mean you won the game . The game goes on until you escape, seeing that we got like 10? perks for endgame. Though I still think its mediocre and in most cases just a waste of a slot, still if you get noed'ed it means you are bad not the killer in 100% of the cases.

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