Smelling Survivor's fear scent?
He did something truly awful. Utterly despicable.
For doing this, he was given a prison sentence and served probation. He is still not permitted access to children, unsupervised - which is fine.
Now, this is in no way apologist for what he did, but once someone's sentence is concluded, we - as a society - should not endeavor to punish them further. We shouldn't ostracize or prevent someone from earning a living, because the entire goal of the corrections system is to turn bad guys into proper citizens and this makes it impossible.
If we really don't think that rehabilitation and change is possible as a society, we should probably be handling crime and punishment very differently (and that would be a very dark world).
If we do, then we need to act like we do and, common-sense precautions aside, we attempt to help people make that change. Here, in particular, when the offense was over a generation ago, he expressed remorse and never reoffended.
You literally would not know he made Jeepers until you looked it up.
And this is really pushing it. By this logic, Minecraft should be canceled because Notch had wrong beliefs.
IF Victor Salva doesn't own the license or franchise anymore, and IF he can't get any monetary gain from the new movie or from BHVR introducing the character, then Maybe we'll see the Creeper in DbD... but those are some big IF's. Otherwise, there's not a snowballs chance in hell that BHVR would make a deal to be associated with Victor Salva in any way, much less pay him for usage of the character license.
"Separate the art from the artist" be damned!
As a community can we please let this go?
Victor doesn’t need to make anymore $$$, yet alone get any recognition from his character being attached to DBD.
if he is genuinely remorseful (which I find hard to believe) then good, as he should be
but saying “we shouldn’t ostracise people after their sentence is over”, in the modern era especially, for something as sickening as he did is honestly laughable, people get their lives ruined for tweets they made while drunk from 10 years ago, do you honestly believe that we as a collective society are going to let a known child abuser of the hook until he draws his final breath? I know for a fact I’m not
Are you supporting people having their lives ruined over a Tweet?
Because if you are, then I don't think we'll find any fertile grounds for discussions, as we are diametrically opposed.
If you aren't...well, you're arguing my side of it then. People shouldn't be offense-farming on old Tweets, or using them to attack people now - even if they said something really dumb or 'offensive'. Because people change.
While it makes me feel gross, I have to extend the same charity to people who have served their sentence for a crime, have not reoffended and are trying to reenter society. And that, unfortunately, has to include this guy. Because they have to be given the chance to change.
Unless u use a nft :D
Probably. And that's their call.
However, as to the last thing you said:
It is damned right now, and that's a bad thing. It's why Harry Potter is considered 'problematic' within progressive circles and people are trying to ban The Jungle Book and Lovecraft's books.
EDIT: And perfectly timed, the person below me just mentioned Minecraft, another perfect example.
If I restricted my media to only people I agreed with politically or had done nothing wrong in my eyes, I'd be stuck watching about 10 movies. Good movies to be sure, but that would be silly.
Your thoughts on Minecraft by any chance?
Why are so many people comparing ######### beliefs to a literal crime?
99.99% the answer is still no
My point is that the same "don't support the creator" mindset was applied to Notch. And yet... Minecraft was not canceled. Proving that it can be done.
If Jeepers were bought, what would happen then?
Because if it's still "supporting the creation", then we should cancel Minecraft because it's supporting Notch.
There is a huge difference in the people and the reasons people wanted them 'cancelled.'
Notch is a guy that has ######### opinions.
Salva is a convicted child molester.
Notch did literally nothing wrong, but that's a very different discussion.
Are you in favor of the death penalty, or mandatory life-imprisonment for all felonies?
If not, then you probably accept that people have the capacity to be remorseful, and to change.
This is a cornerstone of the modern justice system - rehabilitation.
If you insist on ostracizing and persecuting someone in perpetuity, you make rehabilitating them impossible. And yes, this means that sometimes you will need to apply this to someone who is an utter scumbag.
Dude, I Love the way you think! Couldn't agree more on almost every topic of conversation that you wrote in this thread! It is 100% unbiased and purely logical thinking that I really wish that more people in the world shared your views and thought process, generally speaking of course.
I had no idea about any of this prior to this thread by the way, I learned as I read what you guys have wrote, but as it stands the most reasonable person here by far has been you, StarLost, and while this is just a gaming forum I want to compliment you on your brain.
You shared possibly controversial thoughts that were extremely valid and made a lot of sense, I happen to also agree with what you said in the entire thread, but even if I did not I would at least consider the things you wrote and possibly change my own opinion!
Thank you. I am often the one in my "group" or social life who tends to speak the "uncomfortable truths" that no one else really wants to agree with despite my logic being very reasonable and sound, it's just honestly nice to see that I'm not the only one in the world <3
EDIT: I saw some others mentioning that this Thread might get shut down if people aren't careful because of this Topic - but honestly I really hope that it doesn't because this has been legitimately the most interesting Thread I've read on these Forums in a VERY long time. It actually has brightened my day and put me in a better mood (especially after having a few terrible matches as Killer on Haddonfield with Boon Totems ><)
He's already gained money from the new movie since Screen media had to pay him for the rights to jeepers creepers. They had to pay him upfront to make the the movie.
>Notch did literally nothing wrong, but that's a very different discussion.
Mmmmm, this ain't it chief.
Wish people would not be so dam sensitive. Jeepers Creepers is arguably my favourite horror film and always will be, regardless of what the director did or didn't do. The character and the actors didn't do anything wrong and playing a game with a character from that film shouldn't bother people at all.
He'd make a brilliant character in the game although im not sure how his power (fear) would work. Maybe a killer that had a big bonus to hunting his obsession
i just wanted to state that although these opinions stated are controversial that i also agree with them i like to look at it from a logical viewpoint de attached from any issue and viewing it with no emotions attached
People change and everybody wants to think that people dont but they do trust me im much different from the man i was 10 years ago ik great men that had terribile things happen to them and terrible men that had great things happen to them
dont be fooled even cain killed abel, looks can be deceiving even jesus's eyes were hazel
I don’t play Minecraft nor am I aware of what exactly you are referring to.
If you’re trying to justify Victor’s crimes, then this conversation can end here, if not then please enlighten me.
I mean Europe by in large criminalizes even racist remarks; I'm just wondering where this double standard ends & begins. Seems like you could rationalize throwing out quite a bit. Everyone gets it, nobody likes Victor with good reason. Jeepers Creepers is still a pretty good movie. Seems like we just won't see eye to eye friend.
I replied to your post. I don't think the tag worked (for some reason it seems to work differently with @'ing people on the wall).
Yes! Less Emotions / No Emotions = Better!
Starlost made a couple of good points about the essence of rehabilitation and paying for your crimes, ones that are impossible to argue against because the only alternative would be as he mentioned the death penalty or similar.
I don't particularly know myself if I believe that people truly can "change" or if they just learn that they don't want to get in trouble and punished by society again - I do believe that deep down every human is born in their DNA/genes with certain traits and characteristics that eventually evolve into who they become and I don't think that those can change and in many cases criminals who do violent crimes for example do not have the ability to even feel bad or remorse about what they have done, it is not in their DNA to feel for others or imagine the true nature of their crimes.
I do agree however that people are able to change their behavior, regardless of who they are deep down inside, so whether or not this person would still remain a pedophile if they could be because that is what they are sexually attracted to, perhaps he has learned to not act on those urges and hold back at all times. In case of a pedophile - which is a different topic all together and not one I am very familiar with - but I can only imagine it must be horrible to be sexually attracted to children.. I do think it must be a sickness people are born with to some extent, because I personally am not and have never been sexually attracted to children so I have no idea what that must be like, just like I am not sexually attracted to men either, but women turn me on. Society is finally allowing people who are born sexually attracted to the same sex or feel like they are born the opposite sex to become gay, transgender, etc, and I think that is a good thing - because people feel they are born that way and want to be who they really are. That doesn't really hurt anyone else, but a Pedophile on the other hand has to commit crimes and potentially destroy a child's life in order to satisfy their sexual desires, just like serial killers have to do their thing to get themselves off.
It's certainly not an excuse, and they SHOULD NOT do it, even if they have the urges they need to know that it's a terrible thing and they shouldn't do it. But I wouldn't know what it feels like, because I don't even get those type of urges fortunately, and never have. They do, they're born with these urges, which is why I think it's some kind of mental illness that is abnormal in these people who do such things.
Anyways I went off on a bit of a rant there just on the topic of change - bottom line, I agree with what you said, I too have changed quite a lot from my former self to the person I am today - in fact I can tell you that when I was in Elementary School I was rather considered a "bully" because I was a really big kid (5'8 in 4th Grade) and the other kids were scared of me and I didn't even know this until I was told by some parents, but I guess the kids always felt like they had to do whatever I suggested because they were scared of me..
Anyways, I was given that information in 6th Grade - and then since then I have changed my ways to never be that way again and for the past 20 years or so I have been told by numerous, countless people that I am the nicest/kindest/friendliest person they have ever met!
So yeah, I believe people can change, but it's all mental, and to what degree are people successful and what can trigger them to fall back on their old habits or urges? It gets a bit too complicated for me personally haha.
I will end on this final note on the actual Topic of conversation of this Thread before I derailed it a bit, stating that ultimately from my personal view, having just learned about this Pedophile guy and his relation to Jeepers Creepers - I don't support his actions as a Pedophile, I don't have to like him, in my eyes he is a Criminal, I don't really care whether or not he's truly changed and learned his lessons from the punishment of his crimes, I don't really know if he's truly been rehabilitated or not and it doesn't make me like him any more or less because I still think he's a terrible human if he was convicted of these crimes, and I'll probably never meet him or talk about him again ever again after this thread.
But I f**kng like Jeepers Creepers, and that's not going to change, because it is a FACT.
Just cause I don't like the guy behind the movie, doesn't mean that when I watched the Movies I ENJOYED THEM. I would be lying to myself if I said that I didn't. Jeepers Creepers isn't perfect, or awesome, it's somewhere in the middle of mediocre and great, and I love that tune they sing, and I have good memories of it, and nothing can take that away from me because it is real.
So yeah - I guess as others have said - "Separation of Artist from the Art"? Or whatever. It should hold true in all cases not just some cases - this is the correct way to think because thinking any other way is being hypocritical. People can choose to be hypocritical and that's okay, but it is not a logical viewpoint because being a hypocrite is technically a flaw.
EDIT: I had to censor my F** word manually because it wasn't censored automatically for some reason and I didn't want to get in trouble XD lol I always thought words got censored automatically on these Forums?
Rather ironic now that its name is the creeper, isn't it?
I'm not the kind of person that bullies or instigates a mob of sjw's against people for their opinions, nor do I like the idea of ruining someone's life over them (cancel culture) as I believe that they have the right to say whatever they want, just as much as we have the right to debate, argue, bemoan or ignore them for it... but not the right to attack them. I'm more of a "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." kind of guy.
However, I DO hold people accountable for things they've done, and through their actions, have caused others painful consequences, especially if what they did created victims of innocent people, and said consequences still linger to this day. Victor Salva falls under this category of people. Creative though he may be, paying him for his art feels dirty upon learning/knowing what he's done. Even on the set of Jeepers Creepers 2, the staff had to keep him at a distance from all of the young boys in the cast as he was apparently overly friendly with them, and when he couldn't get close to them he started making unnecessary demands that there needed to be more scenes of the Minor aged male actors showing off more skin (shuddering in discomfort here). He may have never re-offended, that we know of, but considering that information from the JC2 set, I would argue that it's not because he's a changed man, and more because no one was stupid enough to let him.
While you do raise valid points about "forgive and forget", some things are just too hard to forgive, and no one will ever let him forget it. If that means boycotting his art as a way of informing him his work is unwelcome due to his infamous past, as nothing else will hit as hard as a loss in his bank account, then I'm all for it.
So they paid him for the rights to make the movie, but the question is... will he still get royalties from the movie sales? or do the makers of the new movie now own all the rights, and are the only ones who will make a profit on the franchise from here on out?
If it's the former, then BHVR will not likely bring the character to the table for licensing negotiations.
Well, I suppose I would accept or at least consider the argument that:
"I like Jeepers Creepers, I want it to be in DBD because it would be a cool license to add, I have enjoyed the movies in the past, but despite wishing that I could have all of these things and knowing that I would probably enjoy them and they would bring my life some sort of positive happiness or entertainment value, I CHOOSE not to because I do not want to support a convicted criminal in any sort of way. It's really a shame that this person had to do these things, and I happened to find out about it, because now in good conscience I simply have to "ban" something that I actually like from my own life."
This is a respectable decision that I guess is what some of you have made, including BHVR possibly, that I can logically agree with because you are actively deciding to void yourself of some pleasure for the cause and morals you believe in.
I don't particularly know if I am this strong myself, to do such a thing, however I think the counter argument that many people have pointed out about this and why it is still "best" to "separate the artist from the art" is that if you really knew all the bad things that people did in the world and reacted the same way to every single form of art or creation then eventually there would be very few things left in the world for you to enjoy.
I'm certain that plenty of things that we enjoy in life have a horrible history behind it, but what is life without any of these things? Well, I don't particularly care to find out - I think it's simply easier on the brain to just separate the two which is why people have been saying that in this thread quite often.
Creature created by a pedo in order for him to try and justify being pedo. Nah. I'm good. If BHVR wants a creepy scarecrow villain they can create a better one without all the pedo.
It's not a matter of forgiveness or forgetfulness.
It's a matter of practicing what we preach as a society. It's all well and good to say 'I believe people can change' or 'it should be about rehabilitation as well as punishment' - but too few people actually adhere to this in their own lives.