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Basekit DS, BT, Unbreakable



  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,300

    Would it be OP if killers got BBQ, Ruin and NOED as basekit?

  • sizzlingmario4sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 2,946

    I don’t think you understand how OP that would be.

    Survivors don’t need 7 perks. I don’t think any of those three need to be nerfed as they are, but basekit? If you want that then you’d have to make some significant other changes either in the way of nerfing survivors heavily or making some of the strongest killer perks basekit as well.

    The only perk I would consider that could maybe be basekit for survivors is kindred, and only seeing your teammates (not seeing the killer) in an effort to lessen the gap between solo and SWF.

  • thefallenloserthefallenloser Member Posts: 1,234

    I think several perks from both sides should actually have base kit tests-- albeit, with a few tweaks.

    A nerfed Ruin and Pop for killers and a nerfed Unbreakable and BT for survivors.

    ... or something like that.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 4,398

    I'd actually be okay if DS was basekit, because it's a strict anti-tunneling perk and is very difficult to use offensively without screwing over your team, but basekit BT is a bad idea (now survivors don't even have to wait for the killer to leave the area, they can just hook bomb and body block as a default) and basekit Unbreakable is even worse. Imagine trying to play Twins or Oni when every survivor can guaranteed pick themselves back up. It absolutely breaks certain playstyles and prevents so many snowball opportunities. If these abilities exist, they have to have an opportunity cost.

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,142

    The only survivor perk that needs to be base kit is kindred IMO.

  • fogdonkeyfogdonkey Member Posts: 1,510

    Start a separate forum thread for that. This is about survivor perks.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,300

    Even then, I think auras would be too OP without costing a perk slot.

    For basekit functionality, I'd rather see an ability you can use while not otherwise occupied, that shows a 'killer instinct' style directional indicator for other survivors.

  • nikodemonikodemo Member Posts: 546

    i'm a killer main. i do think many currently meta perks should be incorporated into basekit for the health of the game and to facilitate more healthy, fun play and more perk variety. they could be toned down if needed to compensate. i think this should happen for both sides.

  • SeraphorSeraphor Member Posts: 4,300

    Please no, I hate running Whispers as killer, it's way too loud.

  • MrCalac123MrCalac123 Member Posts: 1,134

    Make Ruin, Corrupt, Deadlock, Enduring and Brutal Strength basekit too then :)

  • ThatOneDemoPlayerThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,208

    So this would be a pure Killer efficiency nerf while Survivors don't lose anything in return, too op no thank you

  • DoomedMindDoomedMind Member Posts: 793

    There is always one crucial moment as a killer where you have to slug. This is not toxic, "not nice", or whatever it is. Overslugging or slugging for no reason (for example when you already have a ton of pressure) is another thing, but saying "slugging is an unsportsmanlike conduct because it ruins others game" is as dumb as saying "killing is an unsportsmanlike conduct because it ruins others game".

    -> Unbreakable is strong, it has to stay a perk, and not a basekit thing.

    DS basekit I want it from its nerf. Now when you DS a killer, they were consciously tunnelling you, and you did not anything to make the game progressing. Tunnelling is something that has to be destroyed.

    BT, well, survivors never should unhook in front of the killer, and if DS is basekit, this surv doesn't need BT.

    The only thing required to punish a killer to tunnel is the current DS basekit. With that, you can buy a lot of time for your team.

    But, these three perks basekit ? Did you ever played a single game as a killer to even think about that ?

  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,142

    If DS was made basekit, literally anything M1 action would have to disable it.

  • DoomedMindDoomedMind Member Posts: 793

    Yes, so if you're tunnelled, you don't have the time to do any action, so that's actually a fair counter to it.

  • vacamanvacaman Member Posts: 1,140

    Yeah sure let's give survivors 7 perk slots, what could go wrong, as if the boon totems didn't give enough value already.

  • FFirebranddFFirebrandd Member Posts: 2,074
    edited November 2021

    Alright, so lets Law of Unintended Consequences this.

    How can Killers counter this? I personally can see 3 options.

    1) Forever Legion. You know the one. Mending Add ons, Thana, Dying Light, Pop, and Eruption/Jolt/Corrupt/whatever. Can't tunnel, camp, or slug to get pressure? Fine, I'll bring a build to make the game so dang slow that it doesn't matter. I'll also be on Legion who is like... the one killer who can actively avoid a Survivor trying to abuse BT, DS, and UB because they have a 3rd option in the form of leaving them in Deep Wound with Frenzy. I'm sure Survivors will have a blast with that.

    2) Your base kit changes have heavily disincentivized Killers from actually hooking people. You've given them 3 forms of defense that are activated by hooking someone. You've given them 1 for anti slug and its single use. If I'm a killer and I see that and want to win... you know what its time for? Knockout bleed out build. Sure they'll get up once... but only once. I'm sure that'll be super fun for Survivors.

    3) The last build/setup I can see surviving this ridiculous buff to Survivors is Insidious 16m away camping Bubba/Trickster to avoid Kindred. Both of them can do damage fast enough to potentially down the rescuer and the rescuee through BT. So... they plough their way through both, pick up the rescuee to get their DS out of the way then hook the rescuer. Rinse Repeat. Again... sounds like a blast to play against.

    Why do I think that something like this would happen and that toxicity would skyrocket? Two reasons.

    First, everyone already knows that even with all those perks in play tunneling, camping, and slugging are the most powerful ways to play. Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat is slow as all hell to win the game. I'm pretty sure that a lot of Killers treat things like I do. I start out playing Chase -> Down -> Hook -> Repeat because it is nicer and more fun, but once it becomes painfully obvious that the Survivors in my game are too efficient for that to work against, well, then we bust out the tunneling, camping, etc if we need to so we don't get completely demolished. That game plan will cease to have its fall back plan if these changes happen so I imagine a lot less people will employ it as their first plan.

    Second, most of the anti tunneling and camping stuff is not actually powerful enough to stop it completely. If somebody really wants you out of the game, they'll get you out of the game. Even if they have to bulldoze through BT, DS, and DH if a Killer really wants to tunnel unless you're a lot better than them they will get you out of the game. However, what those perks do do is make having tunneling and camping as a backup plan completely non viable. Using DS at 4 gens is actually bad because then the killer will probably be like "Alright I've already eaten the punishment for tunneling. Might as well claim the reward for doing it too." and you're gonna die. Using DS at EGC is a free out for everyone still in the trial unless the Killer has 2 slugs at the time. To avoid the frustration of getting punished for making desperate plays, they'll just start out with the "desperate" plays that they'll know will be punished but they'll have enough time to reap the massive benefits for playing that way.

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