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The Sad Truth Of Playing Killer.

StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739
edited November 2021 in General Discussions

EDIT: Wow, this post turned out to be nearly prophetic. Sometimes I hate being right. RIP Pinhead, you poor man.

As much as I like this game, it's rough being a killer main.

You are constantly expected to adhere to an unspoken and often inconsistent 'code of conduct'.

You aren't supposed to do everything within your power to win. Camp, tunnel, play the wrong killer, bring the wrong perks, bring addons and you'll be whinged at or DCed on.

Survivors, however, are not expected to adhere to any ruleset whatsoever - even regarding basic politeness. I can't think of a single day where at least half my games don't have someone teabagging me or flicking me with a daft macro, only to DC the second I hook them.

For a long while, I just took this as a quirk of the game. I tried to be 'nice' and to play 'fair'.

Then I realized something.

Nobody thanks you when you play 'nice'. You are more likely to get BMed and ridiculed.

Instead, go in hard. Play sweaty. Bring your best perks. Tunnel someone down as soon as you can. Proxy camp if you need to. Slug. Be the bad guy.

Once you are winning, then you can play fair. And if you decide to ease up when you were thrashing them, then and only then will you get a thank-you.

Oh, and if you weren't completely depressed yet - here's something for you to think on.

BHVR recently nerfed Wraith pretty hard. The reason given was that he was too easy to play and too difficult for newer players to deal with. At high levels of play, he was low-mid tier at best. But BHVR famously 'don't balance around the top tiers of play'.

They recently released their list of kill rates, and Nurse was hilariously low.

At high levels of play however, Nurse is top tier. BHVR specifically said that they have no plans to buff Nurse.

So, essentially, they've basically admitted that they'll nerf a killer if he's too easy to succeed with at lower MMR, even if he's fine at high MMR. However, they won't buff a killer if she's ridiculously weak at lower MMR, because they are scared of it being OP at high MMR.

Consider this.

Post edited by StarLost on
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Comments

  • shyguyyshyguyy Member Posts: 297

    I did engage: don't care about what other people think. You might actually enjoy the game then. You paid money for this game, do whatever you want. If you wanna tunnel go for it, if you wanna camp, bring marshmallows. It literally doesn't matter as long as you enjoy yourself.

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 1,599

    I get thanked for playing nice -shrug-

    It's fairly rare for me to get toxicity in post-game chat. I'm at a place similar to the same "realization" as you, but my own epiphany was akin to 'it is okay if you don't 4k' - when I stopped pressuring myself I started to get fairly good as a killer. Even in games with a BNP squad I'll usually get a kill before the 3rd gen gets done, and I let myself get visibly silly in-game if the survivors see me mess up.

    If I'm smiling, I'm winning, and often I think the survivors can intuit if you're getting pissed or having a good time, which I think carries into the post-game experience.


    Yes on your points about Nurse, data collection, and the state of nerfs/buffs, though.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739
    edited November 2021

    The issue isn't so much that I want to.

    If I had my way, I'd be able to run funky perks and play chill. However, I seem to be at an awkward spot in matchmaking where every second game is against a super sweaty SWF team that I have to play really greasy against to win, and no amount of crushing losses because I didn't immediately annihilate someone seems to change this.

    Something seems to be weird with MMR on my side.

    For a while, I got to enjoy playing a more chill game, and still getting 2 kills regularly. Sometimes 3, but usually 2.

    Now...it's not like that.

    I'm up against 1 of 4 possible combinations of opponents.

    3-4 intermediate players like myself: usually a fun game.

    1 super high-tier player and 2-3 potatoes: not usually a fun game.

    3 man 5000 hour SWF team and 1 intermediate player: not usually a fun game.

    4 man 5000 hour SWF: I get destroyed.

    I see a lot of toxicity in postgame. It might be when I'm playing, or just my MMR. But I've been cussed out for 'not playing a normal game' when I pick Pinhead and run Plaything.

  • lavarslavars Member Posts: 312

    It is funny how survivor mains are like "wow you could have been nice" when you got them destroyed, but if they destroy you, noone would give you a kill out of being nice. Tea-bagging and clicking shouldn't annoy you, as it just means they are either cocky or they may be confident in themself. Just play the game how you want and ignore comments. That's the best you can do

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739

    Yup.

    This is my usual pattern for DbD.

    I come in being nice, get annoyed at people, eventually become embittered and take a long break.

    That said, clicky clicky gets under my skin far more so than simple endgame griping does. I'd rather be complained at than gloated at.

  • lavarslavars Member Posts: 312

    My tip is to ask WHY it does get to you? Do you chase them and then they outplay you for example? Just don't commit, ignore them and say to yourself "yeah, yeah i know you want to get chased" but often they just waste time by trying to get your attention.

  • ElusivePukkaElusivePukka Member Posts: 1,599

    I hear you, and I'm not a fan of MMR as shown in-game. I trend toward two extremes - the crossplay 4-man SWF who gets destroyed, and the PC 4-man SWF who typically get two out the door. Maybe the crossplayers are where DBD stores all the toxicity against me so I just don't experience it - recently ran into my first 'in the wild' accusation of racism for using Bubba's chainsaw.. without even having the theoretically problematic cosmetic. That was maybe my first toxic moment in a year.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739
    edited November 2021

    Shrug.

    It's partially a pride thing, and partially an 'okay, your macro is giving me an actual headache IRL and I think you know that' thing.

    The issue isn't so much dropping chase, as it is desperately trying to get a down - any down - to put some pressure on an SWF that has already popped two gens before my first chase.

    Mm. I think that's what's happened. As I'm getting a higher MMR, I'm getting matched against more PC SWFs. And honestly, I can't think of the last time that I didn't encounter at least one player on a PC SWF that wasn't BM in some fashion. And there's usually one in every two groups that makes me go 'hang on, is this guy hacking or am I just a lot slower/more obvious than I thought?'.

    I swear, people pick Claudette or run the Pride thing specifically so they can threaten to report you 'targeting them' after the game. I must have seen it a dozen times in the last month

  • lordfartlordfart Member Posts: 538

    Well there's your problem, idk why people care so much about what others think in a game. You play nice because you want to, not for external validation. They didn't give you the pats on the back you wanted and now you're disappointed - that's why you shouldn't let your playstyle be dictated by the gratitude you think you should receive in a dumb game \o/

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739

    It's less 'nobody says thank you when I play nice' and more 'it grinds my grapes when people gloat about winning when I've played nice'.

    Yes, yes, strangers on the internet and all that. It still does build up over time.

  • lordfartlordfart Member Posts: 538

    I do get the irritation, I usually play nice and am always pleasantly surprised when I get some good sportsmanship from survivors in return because it's soso rare but I hope you don't take that build up to heart. People be crappy like that when they are on opposing teams in anything especially when anonymity comes into it, somehow both sore winners & losers no matter how you play. Just do you and know that in the end it's not you, it's them taking the opportunity to inflate their egos because you're the outnumbered one

  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 509

    A lot of people jump to your defence of killers should do anything in their power to win... this is a really bad mindset. I hold the same view for survivors. There should be pre set rules for both sides and the game should punish people for not following them. I know a lot of people are going to say "Do whatever you need to win." That is such an awful mindset.

    Lets say every player held that view, ok so every match will be the same 3 killers with the same perks using the same strategy going up against the same survivor perk. That sounds awful. I know a lot people are going to say "most people run the meta already." Exactly, it is because so many people hold this mindset that the game has become so unplayable. Doing all the gens in 4 minutes, wow fun game, killer abandons the match to camp somebody to death, yeah tones of un.

    This game is being refined more and more and because of this this game is only going to be come worse. Do you know the best method to counter corrupt intervention? It is for all 4 players to hide for the first 3 minutes of a match. Just wait it out and only start doing the objective once it is gone. The killer will be checking the gens that are not corrupted, the won't go to the corner of the map with corrupt, so you are really unlikely to counter him. As a survivor you have no actual reason to start until corrupt is gone, imagine if every survivor did this, and considering corrupt is meta, imagine if most matches played out like that, does that seem like a fun game to you?

    The truth is most players (I'm not saying you) but most players could not care if a match is balanced or not. Survivors are getting demolished, ez win, 3 generators before the first hook, EZ win. The majority of this community only cares when it affects them.

    As for your point on wraith, he needed a nerf. What was happening was survivors were being forced to either drop the pallet and wraith breaks it with his increased break speed or save the pallet and the wraith would beat the survivor around basically any loop. All the change did was mean you actually have to learn to counter/ mind game loops instead of being able to easily get cheap hits. A"s for nurse, I mean what do you expect? She is the hardest to play but the most rewarding. So no wonder she has a low kill rate, unskilled players can't use her, but the experienced players will easily dominate most matches. That is a perfect killer.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739
    edited November 2021

    To the first part, I agree.

    However, it can't be inconsistent. Either both sides need to play 'nice', or neither should be expected to.

    To the second part, that's sort of inevitable. The game being refined and balanced is a good thing.

    CI isn't the problem. The problem is the way the meta works right now. It's entirely possible for a team of survivors to pop a gen less than 20 seconds after a game starts (14 seconds if I recall), and 2 within a minute. That means that the game could be potentially almost over before the killer gets their first real chase, especially on maps with multiple 'freebie' gens like Haddonfield or RPD.

    Now, of course slamming out 5 gens and stealthing around/abusing busted loops/CoH so you get a 4-out before the game has even really gotten going means less BP for all involved, but so long as the survivor 'win state' is escaping, that'll be the meta. The killer has to pressure early (which means that you need to run CI or LP), run a cascading/snowball pressure build like Plaything+Retribution+Pop+Discordance, take your chances with something like DH or Starstruck builds or play a dirty 'consolidation' build like NOED+NWO. 'Slowdown' builds aren't really viable anymore, thanks to the Undying nerf+CoH.

    To fix that problem, the survivor meta is going to have to shift first.

    Third point - I hate easy wins almost as much as I hate terrible losses. This is another problem with the meta - as by the time I know that it's going to be an easy game and I should ease up, I've probably already killed two survivors and they have 4 gens remaining. Because if I didn't go in sweaty, I could easily be on the receiving end of a total stomp.

    I disagree completely regarding Wraith. He played as a partial anti-loop/partial mobility killer, which was a good niche for him. He wasn't even close to OP, and I can't think of a single tier list that didn't slot him as middle tier at best. My point though was that it demonstrated an inconsistency with BHVR's stated design decisions.

    Lastly, I'm not sure if that's a good design goal. The ideal would be killers to be easy to learn and hard to master. Wraith was actually a good example of this, as is Pinhead and Freddy (who is probably on the chopping block next/was nerfed hard respectively). Nurse is an outlier, even by DbD standards. Even very good killers can struggle to play her well (watch Otz's Nurse streak. He had an easier time on Doctor, of all things). She's only OP in theory.

    But...that's immaterial. My point was that BHVR can't say 'we don't balance around high level play', 'we're nerfing Wraith because he was giving people a hard time in low level play' and also say 'we won't buff Nurse because she'd be too strong in high level play' or 'we aren't going to touch SWFs because they're only a problem in high level play'.

    You can't have it both ways.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739

    Oh man, the addon whinging.

    'OMG you brought addons. LOL carried l2p scrub killer'

    'Uh, you are running Brand New Parts, full meta perks and brought a Haddonfield offering'

    'QQ MOAR SCRUB L2P'.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739

    Honestly, I just dodge any .TTV lobbies I come across.

    99% of the time, they are - at the very least - smurfing. Sandbagging their MMR on off-times so that they look better in games they stream. There is no reason why I should be getting matched with SWFs with 10x my time played. Either I'm going to get stomped, or I'm going to have a game where 3-4 of the survivors are either AFK or running to me and suiciding on hook.

    They are also frequently BM as all hell, and if you end up beating them you get weird friend requests and messages from their viewers. Ended up making my profile private after this happened previously.

    I've seen a lot of other killers saying the same thing.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988

    Not always. A lot of the times the TTV is genuinely that bad, I have smoked most of them that I run into. I kind of get why you would believe they would be decent if they stream the game to others... But, it is often not the case, believe it or not.


    No idea about the friend thing. I am on console. So, that never really happened to me.

  • nostrada96assnostrada96ass Member Posts: 257

    it looks similar situation as i know

    premise of hits from survivors mistakes or rigged map is real caused what you said


    thats why spirit most picked at high mmr

    wm1 or non ability hitting killers in chase too safe in most structures


    if killer chase me first and its not ability hitting one

    preventing early snowball which totally necessary from genspeed right now mostly possible

    thats why i don't think legion is weak because you can injure almost free and than i can't pull my balls in chase

  • nostrada96assnostrada96ass Member Posts: 257

    don't say here "im killer main" if you play survivor for good reason

    now im totally survivor main but whiners you pointed in game and here they never play killer with high mmr

    from my past experience even introducing yourself as killer "main" can trigger toddlers here


    btw...if you play killer it could be your fun camping streamers

  • GuyFawxGuyFawx Member Posts: 1,987

    There is only one major downside to playing killer and thats being alone on your team

  • IcaursIcaurs Member Posts: 509

    I cannot say that this is 100% confirmed, so do not say that you know differently, however my understanding as to why, Freddy/ Wraith and other killers were nerfed is not because they are too strong. Objectively Wraith with this best addons is still weaker then nurse with no addons. However those killers were dominating at the low ranks, 4k every game. The reason for this is those killers were extremely strong for how easy they are to play. I think it is common knowledge that the devs mainly balance around kill% right. In their mind a balanced killer majority of matches gets 2 kills 2 escapes. Well at low ranks wraith was getting a lot of 3 or 4 kills, however at the high ranks. Because killers tunnel and camp, this is artificially increasing the kill percent. Lets say you get gen rushed and get 1 kill with 1 gen left, You then camp another survivor to death. You then say this killer is weak, but the devs then look at the kill % an say, no 2 kills is balanced. I'm not staying this is a good way to balance but that is how they do it mainly.

    Anyway I said both sides need to have at least incentives to play the game in a way that is more balanced if not punish them for it. genrushing may be funny the first time you do it, but by the 20th game, all you really are doing is just punishing yourself as well as the killer, and if you think that's ok, then that is a really awful mindset, (no that I'm saying you said that). I agree there needs to be a hard nerf on more or less everything in this game, survivor and killer, the gaps in strength between perks/ item/ addons is just awful.

    As for your last point about swf, if they ever, punish SWF, DBD will die. Solo survivor is... just so awful. If I ever get punished simply for wanting to play with friends that may be the thing that kills this game.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,883

    Survivors aren't expected to abhere by a ruleset cause killers aren't either. That's something you decided to do cause a salty player complained to you.

    If a killer player would complain to you about genrushing would you put a 5 minute timer each match before you start working on gens? Probably not.

    Then why change how you play with killer when you run into a salty survivor player.

    There are salty players on both sides.

  • SloppyVoldemortSloppyVoldemort Member Posts: 452

    I used to care about other people their fun when playing killer or survivor, didn't camp or tunnel or flashlight clicked. Now I don't anymore. If I camp or tunnel someone, I don't feel bad anymore.

    This game made me a selfish person. Other people don't care about you too, so why should I play according these rulebooks. Whenever I get hatemail on console I just reply with a <3 and then move on.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,656

    Completely agree. These threads/posts are getting ridiculous.

  • Rancid_DischargeRancid_Discharge Applicant Posts: 193

    I feel like I've seen this thread like 100 times

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,739

    And that, in and of itself, is quite telling certainly?

    Internet 101:

    Any opinion I agree with is absolute gold and the devs either need to pay attention or don't care about their game.

    Any opinion I disagree with is whining and probably should just result in your account being deleted.

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