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Is Dead hard a problem?

I think it is. This meta perk has saved more lives than the peniciline vaccine itself, lol. Not only dead hard though, but also those perks that grant you a second opportunity with not a big penalisation. Of course, they are necessary, I can't realistically tell you the time I found it as a last resource and saved my life. But this not hide the fact that many of those times in which I used it was because I was the ONE who made the MISTAKE, not the killer. Interestingly, if you compare DH to the other exhaustion perks out there, they clearly work diffferent: live, sprint burst and balance landing are the ones which can reallistically create a gap between chases but these must be triggered anticipately and clarly one of them awards you from playing efficiently: smash hit. In my opinion, this last perk should conserve the benefits of the actual cooldown. In a sum, players should be penalised for their mistakes in game and not be encouraged to use meta perks because they save you again, again and again. This is what encourages a positive core of a balance skill-based game. Though, you played poorly, you get penalised. You play effectivelly, then you are rewarded. No big deals in that. I hope you can understand my point.



  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 2,178

    Suggestion: Make Dead Hard work only when healthy. Not when injured.

    Now it has a downside, if you get hit and can't find a way to heal (either another Survivor, medkit or the upcoming Healing Circle perk) then you can't use it even after the Exhaustion timer has expired. If you can heal yourself during the 40 seconds of Exhaustion status effect then nothing really changes.

    This could also create cool situations where you use it to dodge an attack and then the Killer needs to decide if they want to commit to you to injure you or leave you, but if they leave you then after the Exhaustion status expires you can Dead Hard again and basically repeat the situation that made the Killer abandon the chase in the first place.

  • PanicSquidPanicSquid Member Posts: 655

    Just going to put this here.

    Penicillin isn't a vaccine, its an antibiotic. Vaccines are a preventative measure, that teach your body how to recognize and fight the specific disease you are vaccinating against. While antibiotics are used when you have a bacterial infection, and they combat the infection directly.

  • CleviteClevite Member Posts: 4,335

    I actually have done the opposite and recently left it behind. I agree, it can be a strong perk and allows you to greed more and play injured with less fear.

    IDK if it's OP or not, but on god tier loopers it probably is.

  • CleviteClevite Member Posts: 4,335

    I think the problem with DH, like other perks or gen speeds , is in the hands of top tier players, it can be game changing. Sure, your average player may get another few seconds out of it, but for others, getting to that pallet or window could be another minute or two.

  • TheMadCatTheMadCat Member Posts: 2,203

    I don't think it's a problem. If we go this way, a lot of perks are a problem.

  • ignaeonignaeon Member Posts: 106

    It should either be base kit or not exist at all. Playing around something you're not sure someone has is annoying, and then they can re-balance around it.

  • drakolyrdrakolyr Member Posts: 171

    It has a downside, you cant use it on full health.

    For example, against NOED not helpfull with full health.

    Its okay to have things like this.

  • SudoK7SudoK7 Member Posts: 68

    I don't really like dead hard that much. I prefer using Sprint Burst

  • YordsYords Member Posts: 5,746

    I think it depends on the situation. If the map is more unbalanced, dead hard can make it incredibly unbalanced since it can give you the option to preserve pallets just long enough to make it hurt the killer. Sprint burst could still help sure, but dead hard can just allow survivors to not heal the whole game, robbing the killer of their passive slowdown. I think that is one of the issues with dead hard, it allows survivors to completely ignore the healing mechanic part of the game and focus more on generators if they are good enough. It also absolutely wrecks m1 killers.

    Not even Sprint burst can do that; not to say that this perk is weak.

  • NozNoz Member Posts: 176
  • Alphasoul05Alphasoul05 Member Posts: 600
    edited October 2021

    Dead Hard rewards you for playing greedy, for being outplayed and for making a mistake. It all results in what should have been a down not being a down, and the killer feeling incredibly frustrated because of it. The amount of time you can waste by a properly timed DH to a loop is severely underestimated by the countless bad players in-game and on these forums. All four survivors can use it multiple times a match, and it is incredibly common to see at least 2 per match.

    Dead Hard is a busted perk, the same as Sprint Burst and it's removal of all fear of the killer because you can simply make any unsafe area safe by reaching a loop.

    Nothing will ever be done, so, don't worry. :)

  • SAégisSAégis Member Posts: 99

    yes it is in the current game dead hard is just wayyyy too powerfull denied it give you a free jail make you get to a loop free escape of a hit invincibility denie completly some killer ect ect ect dead hard IS the most op af constant perk in the game

  • Squirrel_ThiccSquirrel_Thicc Member Posts: 2,678

    I mean...why would a perk that punishes the killer for doing well and catching up to you in chase be problematic?

  • TrwthTrwth Member Posts: 919

    It's a paradox. It can be used skillfully, but it also lets you recover from screw-ups regardless of the conditions, which I think is unhealthy design, especially if all four Survivors can be running it at once. In its current state, it's essentially an extra health state.

    In my opinion, it needs a nerf so it's more difficult to use. The principle should stay the same though because I think Dead Hard itself is a cool perk.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677
    edited November 2021

    It's absolutely a problem, in several ways actually. @MandyTalk Please do review the 5 points below, I'd like to hear your view on this.

    1. When you as killer actually hit and they should've been downed, you get robbed of the hit and of downing the survivor - they should be downed, not actually get away from an actually hit. I've lost count of how many times I've hit but they don't get downed as a result of using DH. I think it's fair they don't take the hit, IF they actually avoid getting hit. Otherwise, I'd like that killers get a perk that makes can make them immune to stun, if survivors can be immune to hits.
    2. Can be used in situations that glitches the game physics and mechanics, which is very favorable for the survivor and to extreme detriment to the killer, like for instance DH'ing through dropped pallets.
    3. It rewards survivors for playing badly.
    4. It prolongs the chase, in my opinion, unnecessarily.
    5. The more players in the match that use DH, the more it potentially further aggravates the above and the side note below.

    As a side note, which only makes DH even more of a problem, the killer, at this point in the game's life, it depends entirely on survivor mistakes and especially if played competitively rather than casually,. If there is even a slight chance that a survivor can erase a mistake with no consequences, that is powerful. Extraordinarily. Powerful. - Which they can with Dead Hard as it is currently and have been for years!

    Post edited by Incarnate on
  • nostrada96assnostrada96ass Member Posts: 257

    the only problem of new deadhard is when killer scammed, there far longer distance than before

    they didn't fixed dead hard, just buffed when it was balanced

    but still i think sprint burst is better so its bad for you because i don't play killer now

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,473

    It just needs a condition. Like Lithe needs windows this needs something you have to plan for.

    Being injured is not something you have to plan for. The killer will do that for you eventually.

    Even making it useable only once per injured state would make all the difference

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 13,291

    Okay. Except I can play around Sprint Burst. If the Survivor SB's away from me for distance at the beginning of the chase, I've sunk very little time and resources into said chase. I can leave and find someone else or I can come back when their SB is on cooldown and catch them out of position.

    With Dead Hard, it comes into play after I've sunk time and resources into a chase and can no longer afford to leave. I've already committed 25 seconds (100 seconds of gen time) to chase this guy and he would have gone down if not for this perk, now, I have to either leave them (which means I've lost pressure) or commit to chasing him and likely lose another 20 seconds (80 seconds of gen time). The difference one Dead Hard can make is massive. At whatever MMR I play at (which I assume is high but idk for sure) it can lose you a game if a Survivor has Dead Hard and uses it correctly.

    Dead Hard can be used to either dodge a hit or to gain distance to continue to loop a structure. I'm sure the data says it's underpowered because it's so popular and a lot of very casual players use it incorrectly. I imagine it will be like OoO, where the stats show one thing but we know, logically, it's something else entirely.

    Dead Hard is much too strong and allows Survivors to waste far too much of the Killer's time. It wouldn't be as much of a problem if maps didn't spawn Shack ----> Jungle Gym -----> Long-Wall Pallet ------> T-L loop. It also wouldn't be such a huge issue if a 30 second (ie very fast) chase wouldn't lose you 2 gens.

  • Ghouled_MojoGhouled_Mojo Member Posts: 1,844

    You don’t see a survivor SB through a pinhead chain. You don’t see a survivor SB through a Trappers trap. You don’t see a survivor SH through a shot by Death Slinger. It’s all Dead Hard. That no collision and distance are just ridiculous.

  • TheDuhJTheDuhJ Member Posts: 475

    I get that players have dead hard planned into their run, but when 90% of the time that means they go to from a low wall loop straight to killer shack then its not extending the chase for one more loop. Its extending it for 3 or more loops at killer shack unless you are nurse, blight, spirit, or a trapper with some cheeky trap.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    I don't use DH when playing survivor, which happens some times, but when I do, I often use sprint burst and would take that over DH any day. Both because I know how frustrating and detrimental it can be to the killer when used correctly, but also because I think SB is better because of the distance you can immediately put between you and the killer.

    Yes, it was better balanced before.

    In general, the game is currently too much survivor favored, and they really should tone down all of those things that help survivors, because without the killers, there won't be any matches, and more an more stop playing killers, simply because of issues like this.

  • CarthCarth Member Posts: 692

    It's hands down the best exhaustion perk in the game and fundamentally changes the way killers M1 survivors in chase.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677

    Because it's broken and greatly imbalanced, on the borderline of being overpowered?

    It's basically an additional health state that replenishes it self, which can also make you cover some extra distance (that sometimes makes the killer miss you).

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