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Question about the Dead Hard buff

DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,723

When they buffed Dead Hard to make it to where killers now get punished for swinging during Dead Hard, did they make it to where survivors are now vulnerable to bear traps such? Or was it just a straight up buff with them being able to nullify counterplay while maintaining all the advantages it had before as well?

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Comments

  • BranBran Member Posts: 1,025

    pretty sure they can still dead hard over traps.

  • OldHunterLightOldHunterLight Member Posts: 2,974

    There are only 2 killers that get punished badly by the hit validation, blight and twins.

    See, even if you hit the survivor during dead hard you only hear the scream and blood I think, you don't actually go into the wipe animation you go into the missed attack animation, it is extremely annoying and I understand I also hate it probably as much or more than you do, should it get fixed? Yes, is bhvr going to? Doubtfully.

    Dead hard has always countered traps btw.

  • DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,723

    I guess you didn't know about it, but Dead Hard had a specific form of counterplay before in open fields. The duration of Dead Hard is shorter than the duration of the killer's lunge attack. So if you were to get right up on the survivor while your hitboxes were practically touching and then lunge, you would be close enough to where even the Dead Hard dash wouldn't be enough to stop your weapon from hitting them after their invulnerability ended. If they dashed early, then you could just swing as normal. But now it's a garunteed escape from your weapon if they time it right even if they're nowhere near a pallet or vault.

  • OldHunterLightOldHunterLight Member Posts: 2,974

    So what you are saying is that it got another buff besides the hit validation? Because I have not read anything about that, it kinda still works like how it used to but the only difference is that it is more unfair now to how it was before, if you are touching their hitbox and they dash early you can still hit them after but if you hit them early it will count as a missed hit, am I missing something?

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,408

    A buff is an increase in one's power. Dead Hard already had the ability to dodge hits with i-frames, it just works more as it was intended. Nothing was increased in terms of balance.

  • LinkToRealityLinkToReality Member Posts: 80

    Making something work as intended isn't a buff, it's a fix. It's an annoying fix, but still a fix. A buff insinuate they added something to it.

  • TheShapesMixtapeTheShapesMixtape Member Posts: 3,014

    Yes but it is not intended as a buff, it's supposed to be a fix for "exhausted on the ground". It is arguably an indirect buff but fixing things is more important before trying to balance them.

  • glitchboiglitchboi Member Posts: 5,408

    That I don't like, but that's not intended so I wouldn't call that a buff either.

  • Rey_512Rey_512 Member Posts: 1,620

    Well Dead Harding over traps was always a feature because of the stupid i-frames.

    Now that Dead Hard is “fixed” it should be adjusted… either remove the i-frames or remove the dash for distance.

  • EvilJoshyEvilJoshy Member Posts: 5,094

    As a trapper main i can confirm dh has been able to go over traps for quite sometime.

  • AdjathaAdjatha Member Posts: 1,011

    If something worked one way, every time, and was changed to work a different and better way, every time, that's a buff. It doesn't matter if that was how they 'intended' it to work or not. It works better now, so it has been buffed.

    Let me give you an example: The perk "Overcharged" was made to stop survivors from tapping gens by forcing a punishing skill check the next time that gen is touched. How it currently works, if a player touches and releases immediately (which is to say, 'tapping') the skill check does not appear, no damage is done to the gen, and regressing stops. The only time the check actually comes up is if the survivor actually holds on the gen long enough. The perk DOES NOT do what it was intended to do, but it DOES do something every time. If it was changed to do what it was intended to, and gave a gen an instant explosion if it was tapped, that would be a buff. It would ALSO be making the perk work as intended, but it's still buffing its power.

  • Voodoo101Voodoo101 Member Posts: 237

    The problem with DH is not DH itself, it is by definition a dash and if you get hit, you can take it. The problem with DH is the way it is implemented and it changes with ping and lag. Lets say a killer goes for the hit, you get the hit because your signal registers the hit, you hear the sound, you go through the animation. The problem is that the survivor hears the swing but not the hit, they hit DH and powers away like you missed. They are getting the signal early and so can perform the action.

    Before a miss timed DH would have been a down, now so many players can use it because the signal to DH is there, they don't have to see how close you are they can hear you, when you swing they run, but on the killers side they have not run yet, you have got the perfect hit.

    Basically the signal to hit goes from your client, it then goes to the server. The server tell you that you hit, but at the same time it tells the survivors client that you swung, so the DH away. The survivor client send that back to the server who then tells your client. This all takes time to do.

    At least this is what seems to have happened. What I think should happen is the server should wait for the hit to happen, then when it receives this, send it to the clients server. If the survivor used DH before you swing then it should tell the killer.

    Please note that I am not an expert, but can see no other option for all these perfect DH that seem to happen.

  • BabuDweetBabuDweet Member Posts: 553

    It's working as intended now and all of a sudden there's more outrage about it.

    So survivors aren't laying on the ground exhausted like 80% of the time and now killers are just outraged.

    'How dare you make a perk work as intended'

    I'm not denying it's stronger, but I also don't care. This is coming from someone who loves playing both sides.

  • R2kR2k Member Posts: 1,069

    U should do research what code fix means before acting so arrogant and stupid. Nothing numerical changed about DH. Your Dash distance and I-frames are still same. They just changed the code so it was based on server side not killer player.

  • AdjathaAdjatha Member Posts: 1,011

    The outrage is, at least partially, because they havne't fixed the "killers see themselves getting a hit at a pallet but the survivor walks away unharmed" problem. Then, they fix this perk, which creates yet another case of the exact same problem.

    Basically, they're 'fixing' (read: buffing) core survivor gameplay elements, while making the killer experience feel worse and worse. If they'd fixed the pallet-fake-hit problem FIRST, they could've buffed Dead Hard WITHOUT duplicating the pallet problem. If the game says I hit somebody, then it's like "lol jk lmao," that's just flat-out a problem. I don't care if it doesn't slow you down longer or whatever. The game is giving killers fake information and that needs to be fixed before more survivor mechanics get upgraded.

  • BabuDweetBabuDweet Member Posts: 553

    Honestly as killer this doesn't happen extremely often to me personally but I know it's an issue which needs to be addressed.

    But still it doesn't take away the fact people are complaining about the dead hard 'buff' just because they hate the perk and don't even want it in the game.

    At one point it wasn't even usable on last gen consoles and I had to run sprint burst for months so yeah I'm glad it's working fully as intended now with the recent 'buff'.

    That's the issue I'm talking about.

  • IncarnateIncarnate Member Posts: 677
    edited November 2021

    It seems they have invicibility-frames for the duration of the dash, which is with regards to everything that can affect them, including powers - which is complete top-level BS, especially if you look at what DH actually only is supposed to do.

    For instance, if as Doctor you try to shock them while dashing, they're unaffected. Same is true with traps and other effects.

    From DH's description: "You can take a beaking. When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.

    Where does it say you become immune to every effect while dashing, like negating immobilazation, contamination, sickness, intoxication or any effect that would cause a status condition? Where does it say you avoid taking the hit? It only says specifically that you avoid taking taking damage. The DH user should if taking a hit while it's effect, ONLY avoid taking damage, I'd even go as to far an say, the dashing part actually enough to warrant it being a completely seperate perk, if if should even be a part of the game, because it essentially can give you so many mobility options where the killer cannot even stop you, like for instance when the survivor is dashing towards the exit.

    The problem has to do with how it it actually works game mechanically on a more fundamental level - which @Voodoo101 was explaining something about in this thread. Because the problem is, that they cannot make it work so effects will work while restricting hits, at least not as it currently is, which has to do with how it works on a networking level.

  • Voodoo101Voodoo101 Member Posts: 237

    Description of Dead Hard from DBD Wiki

    When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.

    • Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
    • Avoid any damage during the Dash.

    That second point is the bone of contention. "Avoid any damage during the dash". This is not what is happening, avoiding damage during a dash to me means a miss. You swing and if they are in the dash, you miss. It does not mean that you can be hit but it makes no difference. This is the problem, that the survivor not only gets a big warning and in the time it takes to activate DH with no skill check, they can be away, where the killer not only missing, but getting a successful hit registered. The same problem with windows and pallets, it registers a hit for the killer and a miss for the survivor. On the other side it registers a hit will a survivor pallet drop or flashlight, even when it missed.

  • DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,723

    If Dead Hard was honestly intended to absorb all damage and negate it instead of avoiding it, then the perk is just as OP as everybody has been claiming. I used to say that Dead Hard had counterplay so it's not that busted. But apparently, I was wrong about the "intended" use of Dead Hard. Apparently, counterplay isn't "intended". In which case, yes, all the people complaining about how OP Dead Hard is are correct. Garunteed hit negation is OP as hell. Did we learn absolutely nothing from the old Mettle of Man? But this is worse. This up right away and then is up again 40 to 60 seconds after the survivor stops running instead of a certain amount of hits.

  • nostrada96assnostrada96ass Member Posts: 250

    dead hard works like short invinsibility

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,705

    Then why does the server register a hit with a power that never happened? What research explains that?

  • JagoJago Member Posts: 1,418

    Not a buff.

  • RoseyDevlinRoseyDevlin Member Posts: 22

    Dead hard was always annoying before the buff and now its even worse, I'm glad DS got the nerf it deserved but why should dead hard be more stronger than mettle of man that requires 4 protection hit for it to work? DH gives survivors 3rd life every 40 seconds, even the cooldown on it is too short and it should not go over traps. I play both killer and survivor for 100% achievement and almost everyone uses dead hard now because its so busted, they might aswell give immunity without the dash, if the killer hits them during DH they get speed up anyway.

  • SakurraSakurra Member Posts: 955

    3 protection hits and most of the time the game won't count a protection hit as a stack... mettle of man needs reworked very badly

  • VikingDragonXiiVikingDragonXii Member Posts: 1,166

    Also fun fact you can use dead hard in just before a fall point to fly a good distance away from the killer as they are affected by the hit validation BS

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