The game isn't meant to be played at the breakneck pace survivors want to play it at. That's why typically survivors will get less BP than a killer. Killers have very few actions to do so they get more points when they do those actions. Survivors by contrast have much more they can do to influence the game and thus get scored less for each single thing they do. Also another big part of scoring is interaction with the killer and vice versa.
The killer's entire gameplay loop revolves around getting into interactions with survivors. You want more points you gotta get chased, get hit, heal, risk yourself getting the killer on you by unhooking. Survivors can of course win with doing little or even none of these things because all that really matters if that you do gens and escape. You're not really driven to interact with the killer in the same way a killer is with you and if your killer is very passive then it can just be hard to interact to begin with. The longer a game goes the more points you will get.
Really? like medkits, boon totems and toolboxes aren't enough to make gen rushing a killer's nightmare? do you think chasing only takes a minute and all the killers have to do is hit a survivor and comeback to the gen and pop it? all it takes are decent enough survivor with only few OP perks, tools, and add-ons to end a game in less than 8 minutes, meanwhile killers needs to rank other killers bloodweb, master each different killer abilities while having to deal with a steep learning curve or practice weak killers into viability and having little to no guiding hand to save them from losses since killers have to learn to play the game ALONE against SWF.
if all of that isn't as fun or rewarding i rather play as survivor and do gens cause its less stressful and not as complex.
and right now most weak killers are not good enough to have fun with or be viable for farming and when i'm not having fun i always play The Nurse, with a vengeance. and it will only make the toxicity go full circle. so pay the killer proper bp or you'll only see toxic killers.
Yes, 3 of 5 possible items are good. Man, if only most killers could say that...
You can find them in chests, use them in the match and/or take them out with you. They are indeed free.
Killers have to focus on tons of little things. They are not the same things as the survivors, but while you get a lovely clear terror radius we have to listen for soft footsteps and Nea farts over the sound of Demogorgon eating bubble gum.
Of course it doesn't. You still have the potential for free addons, and with the desired survivor rate being 2 per match, over time that averages out as one free addon per match.
If the killer 'does the objective' (kills all survivors asap) they don't get much BP either.
To earn a good amount of BP as a killer, you need to play around with survivors and at least give them something of a game.
This applies to survivors too. If you hide all game and slam out gens, you won't get anywhere near as much BP as if you actually interacted with the killer.
Honestly 8 minutes sounds like a nice long match compared to some of the sub 5 minute games I've seen :)
Lmao okay buddy
Survival should be all about skill, and skill check to go to Survival point. Gen point should be double.
There are little thing like pick up Pallets, Build to last ect also go for Survival.
Somethings gotta get people to play killer
Far as I am concerned, it's one of the biggest reasons a lot of people play killer at all. Quicker grind.
I dont care about that discussion. Also you only see killer side, since you dont reconsider that survivors need to learn to play against every killer too? For example.
I just want a better BP system. For everyone.
Never said survivors should get the same amount as killers.
Of course not. But some scenarios dont let you even do both. Getting camped or tunneled, you just dont get much BP.
Also you only get good items out of a match, if you have perks for better quality, you dont even get addons.
Most of my games i get a gray toolbox or keys. Meh. I dont think its justified to get less BP overall.
Well would be an improvement for things like this.
Dont think its about that.
Also again, i dont talking about getting the same amount. As it is right now, its not justified to be possible only 3k BP out of a game.
So then why does Blight with Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer give a lot?
Here's a solution. Put all the BP earned by survivors into a pool and divide that up evenly between survivors at the end. That definitely won't cause problems.
Seriously though, I'd be fine with the first survivor to die getting a bonus or something - but that would lead to even more survivors just suiciding.
In active matches, I regularly see survivors get around 30k BP, which is around what I get as killer.
This is an issue of playstyle, not mechanics.
Ruin/Undying isn't even easymode anymore. It's incredibly streaky as builds go. It'll work well one game, and in the next two your totems get cleansed before the first gen pops. Survivors know the maps now and know where to look - when it doesn't spawn right out in the open next to the first gen.
Again, i dont think survivors should get the same amount as killer.
I also said that overall the system isnt good. Dont get your salt above the other side to something like that.
It was a worst case scenario, but thank that you looked into my matches and know everything. Oh wait, you dont :/
Have you ever tried it? Survivor is miles easier than trying to learn blight.
The basics of learning Survivor are much easier to pick up than Blight is yes
To master? Survivor is miles harder, since unless you have a group of people you consistently play with, your skill doesn't even matter half the time because solo q is hell
I started this game off maining Survivor, that was my first 1.2k hours. After a while it just started getting frustrating even back in 2018 when Survivor had even more bs than they had now, it led me to play killer and now I have all killers P3 50 with all perks and Im reaching 4.4k hours
So yeah, I guess you could say I tried it
This game cannot be balanced around solo and SWF.
SWF is the 'optimal' way to play the game, and thus is where balance and these discussions should be focused.
I'd be all for making some lesser version of Kindred baseline if the match is entirely solos, or better yet including more options for solos to communicate with each other. Possibly Overwatch style opt-out VOIP or something.
That said - survivor is by far the easier role to master (up to a certain level). You have fewer things to worry about and all the map resources exist specifically for you to disrupt the killer, not to mention incredibly forgiving survivor maps like Badham (which still has some spots where if you crawl there, it can be almost impossible to hook you in time), Haddonfield with it's incredibly safe 'freebie' gens and RPD which hard-counters certain killers simply by existing.
It can be balanced by buffing Survivors in a way that allows them to communicate more, this way you buff solo's and it wont really have an impact on SWF. Being able to see Survivors aura's at all times would probably one of the best things you could do to bridge the gap, and a ping system.
Also lets talk about mastery shall we? Sure, Survivor may be a bit easier to master than killer, its not like killer is that hard to master either. Hell the hardest killer to learn is Nurse and even that doesn't take that long if you dedicate a bit of time to it. But imagine that you're the best Survivor in the world. Wanna know what that means? Nothing, because no matter how good you are your skill can't influence the mindset of your teammates. You yourself can be a good teammate and play perfectly every game but all it takes is for one of your teammates to mess it up and it all means nothing.
That is exactly why I don't play solo q outside of challenges. The time I spent learning a role where my skill doesn't mean a damn thing is more unrewarding than anything else in this game.
one of the categories for survivor is linked basically entirely to the actions of the killer and the other one pretty much requires you to escape or do so many self-heals you are likely going to die anyway due to wasted time
Killers are in control of ALL of their BP Categories, survivors are consistently only in control of 2 of them
Killer is starting to feel exactly like you describe solo q. Skill dosent mean a damn thing and its unrewarding. In the current meta some matches can feel completely unwinnable.
Killer is literally the easiest its ever been, and your skill as a killer does definitely have MUCH more of an impact on the game.
As a killer I feel like the game is much more in my control than when I play survivor, something you pick up as killer with time is identifying opportunities to turn a game around. Good teams will limit the amount of opportunities but will not completely get rid of them.
99.99% of the time that you lost as killer, you could of done something better that could of turned the game around, the same can't be said with Survivor.
Even the best killer players in the world struggle to consistently do well as Nurse.
The first example that comes to mind it's Otz's recent '50 wins on Nurse' streak. It was as difficult as his pre-rework Trapper streak. He had an easier time on Doctor.
Nurse is only ultra-strong in potentia. In actual games, she relies heavily on survivors making mistakes - which is not a guarantee at high levels of play. Otherwise, she'll crush in one game and be 3/4-outed in the next. Not to mention the likely never to be fixed issues with her teleports simply glitching out on certain walls and doodads.
Frankly i disagree. I have played this game for several years and the survivor killer balance feels worse now than it has in the past, by and large. While there have always been exploitable tiles and OoO used to be busted currently it feels like the entire gameplay experienced is based around giving survivors more second chances, and denying the killer the ability to apply pressure. Boon totems and hit validation have thrown the game out of wack, thats not even gitting into other survivor perks and items that are unbalanced.
Because Survivors lack from a consistent way to get survival points beside stunning the killer with Perks.
Wich should be getting points every time the killer miss hits, as actually happens with Deathslinger and Blight near misses
But for some reason not applied to every hit in the game...
because easy mode
Well from my experience the survivors are causing themselves the lower BP gains by speeding through games. Just doing Gens wont net you many BP because that's just 2 sets of scores, Skill Checks and Great Skill Checks, three if you count the fully repaired Gen. Then you have the escape scores of Escape and Obsession Escaped. Those alone wont not you many BP.
Survivors have many more objectives to do but with the current mind set of Gen Rushing every game. Like many have said before it's a 4v1 game mode, so you as a individual wont get many BP. Every BP gain has a cap and once you reach it you wont make anymore BP in that category.
If survivors want more BP then they should have fun and not speed through games.
Killers have very little control over the Gatekeeper emblem which requires slowing down gen progress; this is entirely in survivors control as the killer physically cannot be in 4 places at once, but it does require survivors actually do gens and not crouch in bushes the other side of the map outside the terror radius.
This emblem is why people run gen slowdown perks as you get basically nothing if all the gens get done in a few minutes and they are the only viable way to pressure gens. Normal kicking gens is not going to help much here.
If survivors got as much bp as killers then there wouldn't be a reason to play killer.
"it feels like the entire gameplay experienced is based around giving survivors more second chances"
You say you've been here for several years, either thats a lie or I need to remind you of what truly was inbalance
Pallet vacuums, old DS, Exhaustion being recovered while running, BT giving both surivovrs endurance, insta heals, old BNP's, old self care (more like old healing) and the list goes on, and on. And the only killer being able to ACTUALLY deal with that was Nurse, every one else was actual garbage tier except for maybe Billy, but with the amount of pallets back then it didn't even matter
There is no way in hell DbD was more balanced back then
not to sound rude or condescending, why are you bringing up emblems in a post about bloodpoints?
Both sides should be increased a little bit - But admittedly it's likely to incentivize playing killer more. Survivor is stupidly easy and the BP should reflect that imo.
The killer has to take care of 4 Survs, gens and recently also totems. Why should Survs who only screw gens get more points?
Think of it like this. Most killers basekits are dogshit. They need add ons to even make them feel remotely acceptable. Even nurse.
To go through bloodwebs to get the decent add ons(far and few between) It costs a lot of BP
I can que in as survivor right now with no add ons. And it'll feel EXACTLY the same. As whe I bring items.