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Survivors have gotten stupidly efficient at holding M1 and Hold W



  • FeelsBadManFeelsBadMan Member Posts: 175

    Why not make them all spawn on hooks already with a 4% chance to unhook themselves in order to actually play the game?

    Srsly some people need to 'git gut'. The game is way more balanced than back in 2016. I play both sides (around 60/40) and have a variety of P3 killers wth all perks. I mix up my builds and don't only run meta..Yes, holding 'w' and pre dropping pallets is annoying but most of my games I still 2k, which according to the devs is the balance they want. The only change they should make is hooks counting more than kills. Getting a 4k is easy but going for 12 hooks is not. They should increase the points you get for hooks and make the actual kill effect pipping less.

    I agree some map sizes should be looked into but killers for sure don't need a 1 shot mechanic to be able to "win".

  • JohnWeakJohnWeak Member Posts: 854
    edited November 2021

    Do you camp/tunnel ?

    At what MMR are you playing ?

    I play both sides aswell and did a post with my stats on 16 games in a row at high MMR as a soloQ survivor :

    Personal escape rate = 75%

    Average # of hooks the killers did = 3,8

    Hook rate = 32%

    Average # of kills = 1,3

    Kill rate = 33%

    We are far from 2k average and far from a balanced game when the average # of hooks per game is 3,8 lol.

    So you should "git gud" as you say and go play killer at high MMR :). You clearly have no idea of what it is.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 4,073

    At high MMR. Matches last closer to 4-5 minutes. With 4-5 minutes of camping at EGC trying to get everyone out

  • JohnWeakJohnWeak Member Posts: 854
    edited November 2021

    Exactly, with my high MMR killers (Plague, Blight, Doctor, Pinhead, PH), my trials last 7 to 8 minutes max. The gen rush is huge, i'm even wondering if they cheat sometimes as it is lightning fast even though one surv is on hook etc...

    It's like you check a gen, it is at 0% progression, you go away see 2 other gens, the first one you checked popping...

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 4,073

    Probably. Hackers do be at high MMR because they don't lose. Not all of them make it known and are obnoxiously blatant about it

  • FeelsBadManFeelsBadMan Member Posts: 175

    "What MMR are you playing?"

    How is ANYONE (including you) able to tell what MMR they have when its hidden (and probably non-existant anyways)

    If I play duo or full SWF we ascape like 90% of our matches. Yet when I solo queue I still get matches with people who don't even know what a gen or a pallet is and how to use those.

    MMR is a lie, prove me wrong.

    Fact is when I play killer I always go for 12 hooks. No tunneling, camping (proxy) only when I know someone is near the hook right after I hooked someone (saw them or see their scratchmarks)

  • OlokunOlokun Member Posts: 176

    Holding M1 is Boring, Holding W or Z in my case is boring. SoloQ is Boring.

    as Killer i try to have Fun i do my best sometimes i get 1 kill or 4 , i try to not tunnel or camp but sometimes its needed when i understand it s a swf i do what i can but fun is primary Goal before Kills and i try to make survivors's game the most enjoyable as i can but i admit sometimes its very hard XD

  • IamFranIamFran Member Posts: 897
    edited November 2021

    It's not only problem of the amount of antiloop killers released lately, also the size of a lot of maps is simply too much big for a low mobility killer (the majority of the roster), a lot of maps are simply too big which means more space for W and wider space between generatos difficulting the patrolling and downing a survivor at same time.

    I've said this several times in this forums, but in my opinion the maps should be reworked to have the size of Coal Tower or a bit bigger (no more than 140 square tiles) and of course the maps which already have dead zones in the edges with some stuff for balancing in favour of the survivors too.

  • coolmacccoolmacc Member Posts: 70

    No point in even trying to loop some killers nemesis, legion ,slinger, trickster. Doesn’t matter if you mind game them when you have to drop the pallet they’ll still get a hit on you

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,485
    edited November 2021

    There is also a problem in regards to maps - some have ridiculously strong loops/layouts that neccesitate playing a killer with enormous mobility or the ability to bypass these loops, especially at higher MMR where survivors will know how to 'play' these loops and turn them into incredibly safe pseudo-infinites.

    The notorious 'House of Pain' loops, the wonderfully named 'POGlog' on swamp maps etc.

    What's going to have to happen is a rework of these maps. Right now were in an arms-race between killer mobility and anti-loop, and survivors chaining together strong vaults and pallets. Something is going to have to give.


    The meta has shifted from trying to mindgame pallets/vaults to running larger, stronger loops where it's very difficult to catch up.

    I'm not sure if there's an easy solution to this.

    I recently saw a video where a single survivor looped an excellent killer player for around 5 minutes on the Haddonfield HOP. He was playing Nemesis.

    Legion is vulnerable to predrops. Trickster and Slinger both fall apart when survivors know how to LOS.

  • ThanksForDailyThanksForDaily Member Posts: 591

    No room for STBFL.

    Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, Corrupt are basekit perks for most killers. I don't play killer once without bbq for points.

    Currently playing Freddy with fake pallets, BBQ, Spirit fury, Enduring, STBFL with massive success because no one expects chase perks in this day and age.

    Add ons: Red paint brush to confuse survivors at the get go and obviously Garden rake.

  • woundcowboywoundcowboy Member Posts: 1,047

    I think killer movement speed needs to be increased. It will help the hold forward problem and cut down on BS god loops.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,485

    I find this build a little 'streaky' personally. CI can be waited out, Ruin/Undying can pop seconds into a match.

    I've got a weird little build that I run on most non-stealth killers:

    Retribution+Plaything+BBQ/Lethal Pursuer/Discordance+Pop/Surge (will be replaced by Pain Resonance in the next patch).

    For more stealthy types, I go:

    Monitor+Retribution+Devour Hope+BBQ/Discordance/Lethal Pursuer

  • CarthCarth Member Posts: 303
    edited November 2021

    This is an extremely disingenuousargument. Other than CoH existing, holding w has never been buffed in years of DBD. In fact it arguably has been nerfed with the removal of infinites/pseudo infinite loops. The argument that 'hehe survivors had an IWIN button for years but by their own grace never used it due to killer design but now that PH and deathslinger exist survivors are DONE holding back' is an extremely flimsy argument.

  • IlliterateGenocideIlliterateGenocide Member Posts: 2,063

    I can't say I really blame survivors in this, bhvr sure.

  • Gamedozer7Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 1,412

    To be fair loop was an unintended game mechanic the game was supposed to be more stealthy. there was literally infinites in the game were the killer couldn't hit the survivor no matter how l long the ran around the loop. Most loops don't have counterplay once the pallet is dropped is safe and the only thing the killer can do is break the pallet. Instead of fixing these issues (other then most infinites) they just started throwing out anti loop killer. It all comes down to busted game mechanics that the devs ignore and act like balancing for casuals is the reason.

    To be clear they don't balance for casual they balance for bad players. Even casual player will get better.

  • MylaMyla Member Posts: 1,551

    I think chase mechanics should be more precise instead. Like it should trigger when you're directly looking at a Survivor like let's say 3 seconds and it's frustrating you have to get some specific distance to even trigger it.

    Triggering chase mechanic is more important than you think if you played enough Survivor and you play around this. You can basically Hold W even further because the killer is struggling to catch up. On maps like haddonfield where there's a lot of line of sight blockers I have dragged slow movement killers around the map twice before they got a chase.

    The only problem with making chase mechanics more lenient is killers might be really strong with Bloodlust going around so maybe it needs some tweaking.

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    It was actually that they realised they were playing a video game so went with the more fun and resource saving option of looping until it wasn't an option anymore but gj

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 778
    edited November 2021

    Well yes, survivors tend to do this. I would say that you should try to play an insta-down Killer to get the upper hand. I started playing Hillbilly a while ago and have a blast because every survivor that "just holds shift+w" is an easy meal for me. Same goes for Wraith, Spirit and Oni. Now it is the Killers turn to adept here and find a way to play around this.

    I also have quit some fun with my usual Ghostface build (Whispers, Surge, BBQ and Safe the Best for Last) as safe the best is doing fine work. What kills me are Spine Chill, Shadowstep and open maps like Shelter Woods and Ormont. However with his buff indoor maps are a piece of cake and holding W is not as effective when you approach from the right angle.

    Hillbilly just invalidates the holding W with his power as you can get easy downs with his chainsaw when somebody tries this. I had quit a few smart survivors who tried to run in the open just to get a chainsaw in the back. I would advice against a build heavy on slowdown perks as they hinder your performance overall. You get better results with BBQ + Infectious most of the time.

    It gets even better with Oni. Sure you need to get a few hits in but as you are using your first chase to get your power this is no problem. A survivor running leaves blood and once you get your power holding W is no problem. While Billy can bump into things Oni just dashes at you and clobbers them down. His problem is of course Cycle of Healing and finding the first survivor which is why I would always advice for Leathal Pursuer or Discordance. Also on Oni you have no room for tons of slowdown as you need tons of snowballing: BBQ + Infectious are a must, with 1 info perk that only leaves 1 slowdown spot usually Pop.

    The thing is that survivor spawns now hit you even more: 4 people spawning on 4 generators is a huge problem. You can count these games as a loss right away and I would advice to do so. A 2-2, 3-1 or 4-together spawn is manageable and fun but 4 people split is pain especially if they are communicating.

  • RaSavage42RaSavage42 Member Posts: 2,743

    Players are getting better at doing everything because of design choices

    Skillchecks- Thanks to old Ruin being a thing some Survivors got really good at hitting Greats... which was changed

    Looping with antiloop Killers Survivors had to "get good" at running loops... But now they see that holding W is more efficient

    Gen speeds- Killers run new Ruin with Pop... Corrupt became a thing

    Survivors running loops- Mindgame (goes both ways)

  • Kira4EvrKira4Evr Member Posts: 1,262

    I feel like I'm the only survivor that refuses to just hold "W" because it's so boring. Even if I know that I will die, I stay at loops because it's more fun to die looping, than just running.

  • Killing_TimeKilling_Time Member Posts: 519

    They actually didn't. Killers were NERFED even more and to add cherries on top, more second chance crutch perks were introduced for survivors. Eventually, all killers will be nerfed hard.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 11,363

    Threads like this have sorta gotten me thinking where the sweet spot is supposed to be for a killer's ability to be looped. In terms of overall game balance, game length, fun for Killer, fun for Survivor. What is considered "just right?"

  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,124

    If it's a 1v4 game, ostensibly not at the point one really good survivor on a team can occupy a killer indefinitely and secure a win that way.

    Of course, then the chase can be broken and the killer can try and do something else, but map design/balance should probably not lead to it being theoretically possible to prevent a killer from getting a theoretical 1/24th of their progress (a hit) whilst the map is cleared. Conversely, short of the survivors abandoning gens completely, it likely shouldn't be possible for a killer to stop all gen progress everywhere.

  • PanicSquidPanicSquid Member Posts: 654

    Aren't all killers anti-loop killers? Most of their powers work to shut down non-safe pallets and windows.

    Trapper and Hag can set a trap ending a loop,

    insta-down killers can force an early pallet drop

    Doctor, Clown, Freddy, PinHead and Deathslinger can use their powers to slow you down or prevent you from dropping a pallet.

    Wraith, Blight, Demo, and Spirit have speed to counter loops

    Ranged killers can hit over the pallet or window.

    And then theres Nurse, who doesn't care about loops at all.

    So who is left who doesn't have a way to fight loops? Legion?

  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 15,486

    There's having the ability to deal with loops and there's having your entire power around it.

    Doctor has his madness for tracking. Freddy can teleport. Wraith is invisible. Spirit, Blight, Demo all have mobility options. Nurse is Nurse.

    Slinger, Pyramid, Trickster, Huntress, Clown, Pinhead, Artist, etc, all have powers almost exclusively dedicated to anti-loop, with Pinhead being the most likely to escape that category.

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