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I've officially reached the point where I want the old rank system back

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  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,283

    High Mmr also Introduces Hackers =D,

    But we don't talk about them here at high rank...

    They're subtle...like my hopes my dreams

    Oh Wait...
    
  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Could it be that there always were hackers, but because you were facing a far greater variety of opponents you didn't run into them as much - but now, as you aren't facing a lot of lower MMR people, they seem more common?

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,283

    Hackers are Very common in High mmr when you get there...

    ...im getting anywhere between 3 hackers to almost 20 hackers everyday in dbd,

    i've lost count the many times i've reported them and Still see them a week later playing...

  • DragonMasterDarrenDragonMasterDarren Member Posts: 1,845
    edited November 2021

    Also the Bubba that just camped someone with Insidious and NOED didn't win more then the Trapper that got 8 hooks but killed no one

  • Dino7281Dino7281 Member Posts: 3,300
    edited November 2021

    I did. Some streamers did too I think, I remember FarmerJohn did it.

    I "abused" the fact that killers have different MMR.

    So I had Oni and Blight, where I actually tried to win each game, when I was in mood to try.

    Then I had Legion and Nemesis, where I always played normally, got everyone on dead hook, then let them leave. It worked great to be honest.

    I didn't go really super low, I make it so I get survivors with around 500 hours +/-. I don't really want to have games where I can get 4k on 5 gens, that's just boring imo, but just wanted to have option to try meme builds, or just chill.

    Survivors I got with Oni and Blight are around 3-4k, where yeah there is no way I would want to play there with Legion :D

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534
    edited November 2021

    That sounds...excessive. Watching Otz and Tofu's streams, they do encounter them but it's nowhere near that frequent.

    Yes, as I said - it's doable. And I suppose you could do it like that, but you *are* having to spend a lot longer doing it and it takes significantly more effort. I know that I'm not running into smurfing SWFs anymore - which was insanely frequent under ranks.

    It's something that also would have probably happened naturally with Legion/Nemesis, as you'd lose games and in time your MMR would stabilize in the correct place.

    I know that when I started learning Doggogorgon, I got hammered flat for maybe a dozen games and then it stabilized.

    Either way - don't smurf. It's a very easy way to bottleneck new players coming in and it can kill games (it basically killed Starcraft 2, I know that).

    Post edited by StarLost on
  • bm33bm33 Member Posts: 5,259

    They need to adjust SBMM to be more than just kills/escapes.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    I'm...okay with it being kills on the killer side of things. I'm not sure how this could really be better without getting overcomplicated.

    Survivors - yes. It needs to be more nuanced. It's absurd that the Claudette who hid all game increases in MMR while the Yun that ran me for 3 gens but died on hook doesn't.

  • solidhexsolidhex Member Posts: 565
    edited November 2021

    Today was really horrible, one squad with styptics who all used it in the first chase but even this is good enough if everone is doing gens and the killers first hook gets delayed considerably. next squad was just really good at looping and even though i played best possible perks and add-ons i had no chance (hooked every once and thats it).


    I feel like BHVR really hates M1 killers. Instead of buffing them they throw out one ranged/ anti pallet killer after another, those are not fun to play against but really the only way to have some chance in this meta. The healing meta makes M1 killers borderline useless. Maybe it's because 2 of them are free and they want you to pay2win. I haven't seen an M1 killer without instadown ability in ages.

  • bm33bm33 Member Posts: 5,259

    For killer could have number of hooks before each kill. You hook a player once and camp them your mmr will only go up slightly for the kill, you hook them 3 times and it increases greatly. It's just a small change but it would make a difference, especially with the killers that get stuck in a chase all match. A killer that chases one survivor for 5 gens and camps to secure the kill isn't as skilled as the killer that got 9 hooks with 1 kill - their MMR shouldn't increase the same.

    Survivors definitely need the change. My swf teammate and I are consistently matched with teammates that are just useless/hiding. They don't even break 10k BP escaping through hatch while my teammate and I die with 15-20k+ (depending on match). I'm tired of deathloop because there's only so much my swf teammate and I can do in a basically nonstop 2v1. We're not getting 50/50 escape/death at all and the matches themselves just aren't fun.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Eh...

    The problem is that sometimes other survivors leave a survivor on hook for multiple states through no fault of my own (RPD...you are evil sometimes). This would be punishing killers for survivors playing poorly.

    I agree regarding survivor.

  • KaitsjaKaitsja Member Posts: 446

    I agree with this post. Before MMR, nine times out of ten without fail I would play against red rank killers who were all about being efficient. Meanwhile as killer, every third game was against red rank swfs who brought full meta builds or just went for the "bully the killer" route by using head-on to disrupt a chase. The only way I could win as Ghost face was to 3-gen them with ruin/surveillance and force them to make mistakes.

    Games were miserable. I didn't want to play but I stuck with it to hopefully make these miserable games learning experiences. Under the new system, I'm having a much better time as survivor and killer.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Bingo.

    I think this is a case of a 'silent majority' - the 3000+ hour monsters are having a bit of a rough time, and thus they are frustrated on the forums, but a lot of newer/more intermediate players are really benefitting from the new system.

    I know I couldn't go back to the way things were before. It was terrible.

  • bm33bm33 Member Posts: 5,259

    I don't think the killer should get harder match thanks to MMR increasing more because survivors couldn't make their way through terrible map for a save. Their MMR would still increase for a kill but not as much as it would had they had multiple hooks through out the match.

    Making hooks be part of the MMR the killer has to do more than camp a survivor. The camping killer shouldn't be at same level as the one that actually makes an effort to get hooks.

    If you only got one kill thanks to bad map but you had atleast hooked each survivor once - maybe a couple of them twice - you shouldn't have a lower MMR than the camping killer that got 2 kills on 2 hooks, one for the camp and one for NOED.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Camping in DbD is just like cheese/rush play in SC2. It'll get you only so far, and then you'll start getting stomped. I'm fine with that, it's sort of natural.

    I'm not...against your idea, per say - it just strikes me as a minor improvement at best.

    The focus right now, in my opinion, should be on the survivor side of things.

  • bm33bm33 Member Posts: 5,259

    Minor improvement, see how it does - if it needs more tweaking then see what else is needed.

    Survivor definitely needs the most adjustment, no argument there. I'd just attach the emblem system to survivor side with maybe a few tweaks. 😂

  • gammatsunamigammatsunami Member Posts: 477

    It sucks too because I want to play double BP coming up and use my cakes, but all my cakes are on killers. I dont want to give these survivors cakes either.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Why?

    I personally love bringing Streamers etc. because it gives everyone a decent about of BP, win or lose.

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,283

    It does sound excessive, and i wish i was even kidding... but i ain't

    i stream this game for like 8 hours or so, i can literally tell you...how many daily hackers i get,

    even Subtle ones i've noticed too... and my reports do jack against them =I

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Interesting.

    Which game? Is it one of those on your Twich?

    I really want to check this out (preferably without trawling through dozens of hours of video) - timestamps would be appreciated.

    I've come across one overt killer since I came back 3 months or so ago and I've seen maybe 2 others in perhaps 100 hours of streaming content.

  • ZachcjjjZachcjjj Member Posts: 212

    im gonna be honest dude if you cant even get out of ash rank i dont think its the game

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Agreed.

    I mean...I'm nowhere near a good killer and am infinitely worse as survivor, but that just sounds like hyperbole. I can reach Gold with survivor and sometimes Iri with killer.

  • AurelleAurelle Member Posts: 1,142

    The best part about the old ranking system was the randomness. You never knew what kind of survivors or killers you were going to get, which made it more fun.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534

    Maybe that would be true for high MMR folks.

    This made it an absolute nightmare for those of us who are still very much learning. The current system feels...better. So much better.

    It's no fun to get matched against people with 30x your hours played and get stomped so hard that you barely learn anything besides 'how many teabags can one survivor get away with before they just leave'.

  • VerconisspVerconissp Member Posts: 1,283

    i can give you multiple clips, Vods might've already been deleted after awhile,

  • I don't think the old system will make the gen rush meta any better tbh... it's almost like everyone started gen rushing immediately after Behavior said escaping is the way to win the game. I think by now most people realize that they don't need to interact with the killer at all to win, and that's a problem with the game itself.

    So it would need some balance changes that directly impact gen rushing -- but NOT by adding more gen crush perks to the game. Some perks obviouly need to be team-dependent, and possibly even items. So no more cookie cutter, copy/paste meta builds across the team, and no more toolbox/flashlight/medkit stacking.

  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,126

    I feel like a lot of your posts on this topic boil down to "my anecdote vs your anecdote", and deciding that everyone whose opinion on it is different is high MMR looking for stomps.

    But... the thing is, the experience you describe no longer getting is the one I keep seeing, so I'm not sure MMR has been the amazing panacea you're claiming.

    And a simplistic MMR system that ignores most of your gameplay isn't going to promote a fun and exciting experience unless most of that gameplay is necessary to MMR. Which it isn't, so you're still going to unintentionally filter out every other scoring category in the game.

  • SweetTerrorSweetTerror Member Posts: 2,263

    Playing Killer has indeed been miserable. Between SBMM, the plethora of nerfs being applied to Killers, and the tried and true SWF with tool boxes, BNP, prove thyself, and the myriad of second chance perks, I feel more like an AI bot in that I'm just there for the survivors' amusement.

    If you are indeed having fun then more power to you, but you have to understand that you are in the minority. There are far less people playing Killer than ever before. I'm getting instant Killer matches at times during the day when it would typically take me easily 5-10 minutes (or more) to find a match, and that's not a good thing.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 3,534
    edited November 2021

    I'd have to see those clips in context, because timeline is going to be key here. But sure, maybe do a montage and upload it somewhere.

    No, just the guy who basically said 'I don't care about having fun, I just want to kill people'.

    I'm sure that plenty of high MMR folks aren't deliberately trying to stomp (although boy were a lot of people smurfing back then...) - but again, those '100 win streak' videos do come at the expense of a lot of stomps.

    It's just no fun to be constantly put up against people so much better than you that not only do you not have a chance to win, but you can't even really learn anything.

    Do you play survivor or killer mostly?

    If killer...I'm honestly not sure what to say. Survivor - yes, I totally agree that the system needs to be improved for survivor. But there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Someone earlier came up with the idea of tying emblems into survivor MMR gains - and that seems like a pretty smart way to go about it.

  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,126

    I have absolutely zero interest in touching survivor; it's just the wrong sort of gameplay to me.

    The current killer MMR side does not care about closeness. It does not care about methodology. It does not care about soft skills. If I have what is presumably an evenly-balanced game with appropriate MMR, but I get 8 hooks and 0 kills, my MMR goes down and I'm more likely to get a trivial one. If I have a horribly one-sided game where I don't do much of anything on a new killer, but one person slips up in EGC and everyone leaves them to die, my MMR goes down less. If multiple people throw in that scenario, my MMR goes up and I'm more likely to get a difficult game despite having just had a terrible one.

    And you don't want two MMR systems prioritising totally different things. That's just asking for bizarre interactions where somehow both sides gain MMR, or both sides lose it.

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