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Perks that need to be reworked or removed - Trimming the Bloodweb Fat

Killer perks:

Bitter Murmur, Bloodhound, Claustrophobia (Cruel Limits?), Coup de Grace, Dark Devotion, Dead Man's Switch, Deathbound, Fire Up, Furtive Chase, Gearhead, Hangman's Trick, Hex: Huntress Lullaby, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Retribution, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, Hoarder, Iron Grasp, Knock Out, Monstrous Shrine, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence, Predator, Remember Me, Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain, Spies from the Shadows, Stridor, Territorial Imperative, and Unrelenting. 28 useless killer perks, that would not change the game in the slightest if they were to be deleted.

Survivor perks:

Alert, Bite the Bullet, Boil Over, Breakout, Buckle Up, Corrective Action, Dark Sense, Desperate Measures, Detective's Hunch, Deja Vu, Guardian (Babysitter?), Hope, Kinship (Camaraderie?), Mettle of Man, No Mither, No One Left Behind, Object of Obsession, Pharmacy, Poised, Renewal (Second Wind?), Resurgence, Rookie Spirit, Self-Preservation, Situational Awareness (Better Together?), Slippery Meat, Sole Survivor, Solidarity, Technician, This Is Not Happening, Up The Ante, Visionary, and Wake Up. 32 useless survivor perks, that would not change the game in the slightest if they were to be deleted.

As-is, these perks are a waste of space on the bloodweb. Some of them do functionally nothing, others are too niche to see any usage, and others still are fully outclassed by non-paywalled DLC teachable perks. Why does the bloodweb grind have to be increased up to about 90 levels by these worthless perks, for each killer and survivor character?

I've gone down the 'rework ideas' rabbithole in the past, but I guess the question I'm looking to ask, is: Do people want these perks to be improved? Do people want these perks to be removed? Do people want these perks to be left as-is for meme value, inconvenience be damned?

I don't know where I'm going with this, so here's everyone's reminder that Soul Guard has never once been on the Shrine of Secrets since its release almost 550 days ago.

Comments

  • ProfSinfulProfSinful Member Posts: 204

    A lot of those perks aren't even as bad as you make them out to be, they're just hilariously outclassed by meta perks. That being said, stop being a meta slave and run some meme builds for a change

  • shootaman777shootaman777 Member Posts: 138

    That is nowhere near the truth. About 30 perks on each side could be considered meta, about 30 perks on each side could be considered useful/usable, and the remaining about 30 perks on each side are functionally worthless. The ones I've listed belong to the 'functionally useless' category, where they self-handicap/are as useful as an empty perk slot/the same effect can be achieved by not being blind.

    As a matter of fact, those perks are exactly as bad as I make them out to be. I've used them all many times, in many ways. I'm not the meta slave you seem to think that I am, but if you want to slap a label on me, go ahead. Whatever floats your boat.

    I'm asking what the plan should be for the about 30 functionally worthless perks. Judging by your response of 'run some meme builds for a change', I'd say that your response to the question in the OP is that you want those perks left as-is for meme value. Thanks for the answer.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 8,044

    Bitter Murmur, Bloodhound, Claustrophobia (Cruel Limits?), Coup de Grace, Dark Devotion, Dead Man's Switch, Deathbound, Fire Up, Furtive Chase, Gearhead, Hangman's Trick, Hex: Huntress Lullaby, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Retribution, Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, Hoarder, Iron Grasp, Knock Out, Monstrous Shrine, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence, Predator, Remember Me, Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain, Spies from the Shadows, Stridor, Territorial Imperative, and Unrelenting. 28 useless killer perks, that would not change the game in the slightest if they were to be deleted.


    A bunch of those perks you listed are fine either on their own or are fine in specific builds

    • Perks needing a serious buff or revamp: Hangman’s Trick, Monstrous Shrine. Maybe Coup de Grace too. Also, you didn’t include Beast of Prey in the list for some reasons which is a terrible perk as well. These are basically totally useless, even in combination with other perks.
    • Perks that aren’t great on their own but work ok in certain builds: Knock Out, Hex Huntress Lullaby, Hex Retribution, Hex Plaything, Hex Thrill of the Hunt, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence, Remember Me, Scourge Hook Gift of Pain, Furtive Chase, Dead Man’s Switch, Dark Devotion. These perks all see use in combo builds. For instance, Furtive Chase and Dead Man’s Switch and Scourge Hook Pain Resonance is a combo where when you hook the obsession on a Scourge Hook it explodes the most advanced generator, takes off 15% from it, forces the survivors off it and then blocks the generator for 45 seconds before they can get back on. And when the obsession is rescued you can often hook trade the new obsession back onto the Scourge Hook and do it again.

    I think the rest of the perks are a bit underrated. Bloodhound for instance is a pretty solid tracking perk, especially if you’re running into Shadowstep boons in your games since it’s not impacted by that Boon. Same with Stridor, it’s a solid perk for finding hiding nearby survivors and keeping track of them in chases unless they’re running Iron Will 3 (which is itself maybe in need of a slight nerf in my opinion but that’s another thread). Unrelenting’s value depends greatly on how often you as a player miss an opponent who is juking - an average killer player who whiffs multiple times per match at jukes loses a lot less ground in a chase with this perk, while a higher skill player misses less so gets less value, making it good for newer players than veterans.

  • ProfSinfulProfSinful Member Posts: 204

    Ah yes, I should definitely take your anecdotal evidence as a strong argument. You'll get a reasonable counterargument when you provide a reasonable initial argument

  • ProfSinfulProfSinful Member Posts: 204

    It's hilarious that some of those perks are even called useless because they have value on either specific killers or specific builds.

    -Dead man's switch WAS a bad perk, but the new scourge hook gave it a home.

    -Bitter murmur trash? Someone doesn't play any huntress because that is a solid info perk that a lot of huntress mains will run.

    -Plaything has just been released and combos amazing with Thrill of the hunt to counter boons, and combos even further with pentimento due to the nature of the build forcing survivors to cleanse rather than bless.

    -haunted + retribution nurse?

    -No other killer gets more value from hoarder than pinhead, in other words hoarder is to pinhead what iron maiden is to huntress and trickster

    -Huntress Lullaby combos with unnerving presence on doctor (the impossible skill check build), you can include overcharge to add further impossible skill checks

    -Dark devotion is fine as is and functions well on specific killers

    -I hate to say it but iron grasp is fine too. You get value when you pair it with agitation and need to put a survivor on a specific hook, say a scourge hook? It also works when survivors try to take hits.


    There's really nothing wrong with a lot of those perks on the list. It just sounds like OP wants them to be the same as ruin/pop/tinkerer/bbq and probably runs that build every killer game and probably runs DS/UB/BT/DH every game of survivor too

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,755

    Wow, that's an extremely broad list- I can't speak as much to the survivor side but some of those killer perks are actively good, not just decent, Plaything especially is an actively good perk that can give quite a lot of value.

    Similarly, Bitter Murmur, Coup, Bloodhound, all the other Hexes you listed, and Dark Devotion have very legitimate use cases, they really aren't that bad at all. As for the rest, sure, most of them are pretty useless, but I'll get to that in a second.

    On the survivor side, I know for a fact that Deja Vu is a really good perk, and it seems like most of the others can be useful too.

    Regarding the overall point- I don't support removing anything just because it's not as useful, so everything on the list should either be buffed or reworked, and the actual solution to the problem of the bad grind is to fix the grind. Remove perk tiers, overhaul the bloodweb, give more BP in general and/or lower the cost, make new characters start with three perk slots unlocked instead of one, change Prestige to not just be a giant BP sink... any or all of these would be a far, far, far better solution than just deleting perks.

  • FFirebranddFFirebrandd Member Posts: 2,074

    In general, I would vastly prefer underperforming perks get buffed instead of removed. I'm the sort of player who likes to experiment with perk builds so I'm very glad we have as many perks as we do. I am aware a lot of them need some love, but I don't want any deleted.

    I do think that a few of your examples shouldn't be there... But I'm not going to get into that unless you want me to.

  • JejuneJejune Member Posts: 687

    Devils advocate: we need more perk tiers because 4 in Roman numerals looks pretty dope

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