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Dbd is unique in that it enables and promotes toxicity



  • lav3lav3 Member Posts: 264

    It's just disappointing the players accpet something and think it's fine from their view.

    Then ignore others not thinking same like them.

    Tbag and clciking is fine so is it okay killers slug survivors till they die without hooking?

    These can be bad examples to compare but "this is fine that is bad" is kinda hypocritical.

  • ThunderfrogThunderfrog Member Posts: 183

    I don't always agree with Mandy but I do think too many people have gotten soft. I've slummed through League all chat and played in public Halo lobbies. You want toxic, go there. You won't come back here and complain that clicky clicky is anything but a good natured "have at thee!"

  • Gamedozer7Gamedozer7 Member Posts: 1,848

    What about Macro on the flashlight it actually serves no purpose but to be annoying to the killer. I also feel like slugging someone and then just leaving them to bleed out its also toxic.

  • cantelopecantelope Applicant Posts: 343

    More childish and immature than toxic.

    Next time just ignore them. As in don't go near the exit gates. Once the match is over I usually just alt tab to a show for a few minutes and wait them out. They can waste their time like the kids they are.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,438
    edited December 2021

    I think it’s funny how you believe flashlight clicking and getting the killers attention to take aggro are done in a malicious way…. But somehow camping and tunneling is done as a “strat”.

    A strat would suggest the killer has an intention of winning, shaking your head and sitting at a hook with a 1k at the end isn’t a strat and it is definitely not a win.

    Just thought I would correct your double standard.

    Post edited by Johnny_XMan on
  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,292

    Shaking your head at the end is not a strat, but that's not a general component of either camping or tunnelling.

    Facecamping at the end is a strat and is sometimes the only thing someone can choose to do (if they have the killer for it). Sit on hook with one Survivor, or walk off to the exit gates and have everyone get out?

    Like, the problem here is that camping and tunnelling cover a very wide range of behaviours depending on who you ask. Teabagging and flashlight clicking are narrowly defined.

  • Liam282Liam282 Member Posts: 111

    Well, after losing some good salespeo--- I mean fog whisperers, what do you expect? People follow the leader sadly, especially youngsters.

  • ohheyitsbobcatohheyitsbobcat Member Posts: 1,215

    Honestly, that made me chuckle pretty good. If I came to that, I'd probably start head banging and spinning around trying to dance.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,438

    Whoever said that killers only do it at the end?

    I guess when you can find the perfect scenario which fits your belief, it makes sense.

  • MrPenguinMrPenguin Member Posts: 1,446
    edited December 2021

    "shaking your head and sitting at a hook with a 1k at the end"

    "Whoever said that killers only do it at the end?"

    Literally you brought up the '"at the end" argument.

    Flashlight clicking isn't a strat, body blocking and chase trading are. I already went over this, its not a double standard, click and t-bag have no gameplay benefit, camping and tunneling do. Clicking and t-bag actively detriment your gameplay just to try and be annoying. If you want to help another survivor in chase, clicking is not the way to go, go body block.

    I'm using the same standard for both as I already outlined.

    Post edited by MrPenguin on
  • RainehDazeRainehDaze Member Posts: 1,292

    Er... you were the one who started talking about at the end, lack of clarity in what that means isn't my fault.

    Anyway, my point was quite simple: calling a narrowly-defined behaviour toxic is very different from calling some broad-strokes thing nobody can seemingly agree on a definition for toxic.

  • MarcoPoloYoloMarcoPoloYolo Member Posts: 508

    Toxic hasn't necessarily lost its meaning, as it's a vague term in the first place. It's really an alternate way of saying mean or unsportsmanlike. Some people have an inaccurate idea of what's mean (annoying but effective tactics). Can you agree that either side actively wasting the other side's time as much as the game's mechanics allow is inherently unsportsmanlike or, dare I say, toxic? Survivors running the timers out on the exit gate in the hopes of taunting the killer from an area of safety (doesn't just waste the killer's time either, as a survivor may be spectating to see the killer's build only to wait an unnecessary 2 minutes), or a killer running the bleed-out timer dry when the game is effectively won are the primary examples of this.

    Also, it should not be controversial that flashlight macros are inherently toxic, since they exist simply to make a sound more obnoxious than typically possible, and should have been patched out years ago. You can't even argue that "it's part of the game" as you have to set something up external to the game to engage in more annoying behavior.

  • Hex_LlamaHex_Llama Member Posts: 1,393

    I don't think it's necessarily practical to ban people for being toxic -- but I don't think it helps the toxicity when the developers treat it like it's normal and not a big deal. I get that, when you've been marinating in it for a long time, it doesn't seem as shocking anymore, but that doesn't make it healthy.

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    What about survivors waiting till the last second to leave when they are right next to the gate?

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 5,438

    Right, I brought it up to show that the “end” result is not a win (I.E. that strat isn’t a strat, it might have also been because they just wanted to BM that one survivor. Which was in conjunction with what was brought up about “Camping is a legit strat” when there are many times that killers do not give a <bad word> whether they lose or win, they want to make someone feel like they are not playing the game. Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black scenario to me.

    Also perhaps it would be good if you read the context of the question. Since the question was: Whoever said that killers only camp at the end of the match? In relation to your comment about “if a killer camps at the end that’s a strat”. It was a direct response to that not to anything said prior.

    Sounds to me like you like to take chunks and pieces of conversations and respond to them without any idea of the context.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,103
    edited December 2021

    "The way people perceive it" isn't a good argument. These actions have meanings ascribed to them and the meanings are the reason people do them - the point is to aggravate the other player. Flashlight clicking is endemic to DBD, but tbags have a common meaning across game culture and it is unanimously a taunt. I've said this a lot, but "you're just perceiving it as aggressive" is the same logic that a middle finger doesn't mean anything unless you let it mean something because it's a hand gesture, and you shouldn't get peeved over "your mom should have gotten an abortion" because it's just mouth noises. Tbagging is a language. When your injured teammate walks up to you and tbags, they're asking for a heal, not communicating the location of the killer via Morse Code or expressing their feelings about the map. If you spawn next to another survivor at the start of the game and they tbag, they're saying hello, not asking you to follow them or telling you you suck. And you know this because you've been exposed to this before and it has a standard meaning in DBD. Likewise, survivors tbagging at pallets or the gates aren't saying "hey, great game, you played well!" or "if I vibrate hard enough, I believe I can achieve flight". They're taunting you.

    So yeah. It's not the gesture I'm angry at, it's that the other player is being rude to me for no reason, and they want me to know that they're being rude to me.

    I actually do think this game turns people toxic because of pent-up frustration with the other players, as well as some osmotic learning on the survivor side; you quickly learn that tbagging at the gates and yelling at the killer over X, Y, and Z is just what people do. I dunno, I browse the forum and Reddit often and practically the most common kind of post is people expressing how much they've come to hate the other side because of how they're treated in game.

    I mean, it'd be even better if people just didn't do that and I wasn't faced with the choice of either wasting two minutes or vindicating a bunch of gloating children every single killer match I neither 4k nor farm in.

    I also don't really see the differentiation between immature and toxic in this case? Toxic to me is acting specifically to try and aggravate other players, with no gameplay benefit or any gameplay benefit being a secondary goal to making the other players mad. It's often immature, but it doesn't make it any less toxic in and of itself. Unless we just have different definitions of toxic, which is quite possible.

  • VeinslayVeinslay Member Posts: 752

    The devs straight up do promote toxicity, did everyone forget how they said they wanted to make sure teabagging was still satisfying when they made the new animations?

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,381

    Yes, it's fine for the killer to slug without hooking. Is it fun? No. T-bagging and flashlight clicking is fine as well. I've said this before, and I'll say it again: People need to ignore it. If you can't handle those things, then you probably shouldn't be playing (not specifically talking about you).

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,381

    So toxic. "How dare they click a flashlight at me!!". lol

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,687

    I mean, you could water any toxicity down in the same way, "getting offended by words? Ha ha." Like???

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,381

    Words don't really affect me either. There is a difference between clicking a flashlight and telling someone to kill themselves, though.

  • GhostMaceNotCrustyGhostMaceNotCrusty Member Posts: 710

    I'm sorry, have u played bloons?

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,687

    Exactly, because it is subjective... You could do either to me and I wouldn't see a difference, because I do not care. What doesn't make any logical sense is to attribute more "toxicity" to one action over the other when the person offended is the one who needs to determine that for themselves.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,381

    I have to disagree. Getting upset that someone clicked a flashlight is crazy.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,687

    Okay, then for the sake of consistency, I will argue someone getting upset that a stranger told them to kill themselves is also crazy. You can't just cherry pick situations to fit your narrative. Toxicity is based on some objective and understood criteria, or it is subjective and depends on the person taking offense. One of these makes sense, my perspective. The other does not, one where you arbitrarily decide what is or isn't offensive on other people's behalf.

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,253
    edited December 2021

    Sadly, the devs have made their stance clear.

    While I'm a bit salty that I got forum actioned for literally saying 'you're being a jerk' in a game that the devs have just agreed they are fine with anything short of hatespeech and serious threats in, there isn't really much I can do.

    I will say that this will predispose me to be a little bit less nice and a lot less merciful ingame - and that's not going to be fun for the survivors I face. Which is a pity, but it is what it is.

    I also predict that BHVR are going to hit the same sort of crisis wall that Riot and Blizzard hit at a certain level of popularity, where the community becomes so hostile for newer players that it starts to strangle growth - if it's not happening already. It'll be interesting to observe their stance in a year.

    No, I play proper tower defense games like Gemcraft :)

    I used to play a great deal of LoL and HOTS, both of which had communities about as toxic as DBD is right now - both of which ended up with developers overcorrecting the other way and people ended up eating 14 day bans over mild negativity ingame.

    This is the risk of allowing a community to fester like this. Toxicity is like a cut. A bit of anti-septic now is preferable to amputation later.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,381
    edited December 2021

    I still disagree. Again, telling someone to kill themselves isn't the same as clicking a flashlight.

  • cantelopecantelope Applicant Posts: 343

    I'm sorry this is long.

    To respond to the first paragraph I'm not sure the word, perspective I think. It's not that I'm saying that what they are doing is ultimately okay or isn't pointlessly aggrevating. It's more that I realize that no matter what there will always be things that irritates others.

    The thing is everyone has different scales of what they consider irritating, annoying or offensive. Humming is nothing to one person but nails on a chalkboard to another. You can't expect everyone to fall in line with your expectations, and ultimately you have to develop ways to deal.

    Yes it'd be nice if people were more understanding and considerate, but in reality the same can be said about oneself. Unless you never leave the house I garuntee plenty of people do this with you everyday. It's not that your a bad person, it's just what dealing with others is like. You have to learn to ignore certain things so that if someone does go to far it means something when you speak up.

    The people in the video didn't go clicky clicky because they are heartless soulless demons from the darkest ichor filled hole in Hel. They are likely immature and are either looking for attention or are the kids who keep making fart noises with their armpits and blame their mom while giggling.

    Which leads into your second paragraph. The short is... stuff that happened to me in my past has given me a very different scale. It is hard for me to use a word like toxic on something like clicking a flashlight when it can also mean child abuse.

    Its also a problem for me as I find more and more it's just become "I spouted off offensive language or was openly abusive but its not my fault. You were toxic." Just blame shifting for one's own actions and inability to self moderate. The person wasn't toxic, you(not Laluzi you) just didn't want to be an adult.

    I find this stuff annoying and wish people wouldn't do it either. I just get that they are doing it less because they are horrid monsters and more because they're just stupid kids you gotta learn to tune out.

    Stupid, stupid kids.

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