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Can we discuss the claudette, and to a lesser extent adam, problem?

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Comments

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583

    @George_Soros said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    there are a few that are abused specifically.

    I understand what you say, but disagree. Used, not abused. To some extent, you can decide what challenge level you want to play.

    I can't choose for those cosmetics to be banned, just like I can't choose to not be colorblind. Like I said, its literally only a few cosmetics on a specific character, but you don't seem to understand what it actually looks like to someone affected.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Ryuhi said:

    @George_Soros said:

    @Ryuhi said:

    there are a few that are abused specifically.

    I understand what you say, but disagree. Used, not abused. To some extent, you can decide what challenge level you want to play.

    I can't choose for those cosmetics to be banned, just like I can't choose to not be colorblind. Like I said, its literally only a few cosmetics on a specific character, but you don't seem to understand what it actually looks like to someone affected.

    Well. If you wish to ban cosmetics because they supposedly make survivors incredibly difficult to spot I suppose Survivors should be able to ban black Hags, or low TR killers. Since they can be hard to see, right?

    Claudette’s original design (pink shirt, bright blue jeans) are noticeable. But P3 does exactly what it does for everyone else. And her skin colour, being darker than most, is a fact of life that darker skinned people would obviously be harder to find than lighter skinned people. Hell, sometimes I lose track of whether my boyfriends is in the bed or not, and he’s black. But many complain about her race rather than her clothes.

    If Claudette is changed, so should everyone else. The grey on her new cosmetics set isn’t ludicrous, her Gypsie set is as noticeable as anything, her brown default sets are indeed ridiculous but would you like to know my solution?

    Give the other survivors either more dirt/blood or.... give them sleeves. Hell, I presume people were expecting a dark sleeved cosmetic for Nea when her sweaters were announced. In fact her Christmas sweater (and some others, mind you) are a good example of this. It would make logical sense to give them sleeves as it must be cold in the Entity’s realm... and it would give a bit of leeway to designers. 
  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 1,521

    @JammyJewels said:
    MegMain98 said:

    @JammyJewels said:

    MegMain98 said:

    @JammyJewels said:
    
    But what about all of the other survivors? Do they get a pass in terms of being allowed darker clothing?
    
    
    
    Claudette is small and dark. She can sneak around most maps with ease and not be seen unless it is the snow map or the Game. All other survivors are not camouflaged because they can be seen from a mile away. Can’t tell you how many times the ol’ bushes in front of the Myers house has work against killers.
    

    Her default design isn’t dark. It has a rather bright colouring to it. You must be mainly complaining about her optional cosmetics. Prestige clothing for her does what it will to any other survivor: darken them. I don’t think it’s about her clothing but I’m starting to get the impression it’s because she and Adam are black characters. They are finely designed. As are all of the other characters. If you truly think her clothing is the problem then why not ask for darker clothing for the other characters?

    I’m not personally complaining about Claudette’s design because I play her almost as much as I do Meg and I seem to be found with ease a lot of the time. I wear the green fitted shirt with brown pants and the dark violet hair.

    Sure the prestige clothes with darken them but none other than Claudette. Are you trying to tell me that Kate is going to be just as hard to find as Claudette?

    It’s not a matter of me complaining about Claudette’s design but making a clear observation that she is the hardest to find. You’ll find Kate and Meg clear across the map.

    Other characters can have all the dark designs they want. Meg has an all black outfit, Feng has a dark green Sci-Fi shirt, Nea’s P3 outfit is dark. They still can’t hide in plain sight like Claudette.

    I like Claudette’s design and think she is really good for stealthing but A LOT of people play her and to some players it is frustrating to see four P3 ninja Claudette’s in their lobby. I’m just a potato and suffer from corn blindess so I normally lobby dodge if more than two Claudette’s join.

    Actually, yeah, I do think they’d be as hard to find. I think it’s not only the cosmetics but good players leaving no trail to where they are hiding. Claudette is not a problem if the player behind the character is terrible. But I don’t see what differentiates Claudette or Adam from the others. They are just as invisible as the player can make them.

    That’s a matter of the perks the player is running and whether or not they are able to evade the killer. If you have Dance With Me and Lithe, you can get pretty far away without being seen.

    The perks I run on Claudette are Iron Will, Calm Spirit, Urban Evasion, and Self Care. You can see why this would be frustrating for some killers to face and why they complain so much about Claudette. I like Claudette’s design, but going into Rank 1 when all the Claudette’s are wall lickers and bush hiders on a huge map like the swamp...it becomes an annoyance. I don’t want to circle the map five times looking for that one Claudette that refuses to die or even touch a generator when she is the last one left with 5 generators left (this seriously happened).

    It’s clear to see that her darker appearance gives her a clear advantage over the other survivors and having brown and dark green cosmetics only make her even more immersed. Kate and Meg cannot hide in plain sight, Claudette can. Although I can’t complain about people using her because I use Claudette a lot of the time, I’m just stating that she is the best for hiding and the reason why you see so many Claudette players.

  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583
    edited January 9

    @JammyJewels said:
    Well. If you wish to ban cosmetics because they supposedly make survivors incredibly difficult to spot I suppose Survivors should be able to ban black Hags, or low TR killers. Since they can be hard to see, right?

    Claudette’s original design (pink shirt, bright blue jeans) are noticeable. But P3 does exactly what it does for everyone else. And her skin colour, being darker than most, is a fact of life that darker skinned people would obviously be harder to find than lighter skinned people. Hell, sometimes I lose track of whether my boyfriends is in the bed or not, and he’s black. But many complain about her race rather than her clothes.

    If Claudette is changed, so should everyone else. The grey on her new cosmetics set isn’t ludicrous, her Gypsie set is as noticeable as anything, her brown default sets are indeed ridiculous but would you like to know my solution?

    Give the other survivors either more dirt/blood or.... give them sleeves. Hell, I presume people were expecting a dark sleeved cosmetic for Nea when her sweaters were announced. In fact her Christmas sweater (and some others, mind you) are a good example of this. It would make logical sense to give them sleeves as it must be cold in the Entity’s realm... and it would give a bit of leeway to designers. 

    thats a bit of a false equivalence in regards to killer visibility, especially since the Wraith leaves an actually visible shimmer while cloaked (i.e. invisible) and the presence of, you know, terror radii in general. MOST of her cosmetics are fine, especially the aforementioned grey/pink/etc ones. The fact that she has dark cosmetics at all can turn her into a moving silhouette to people with visual impairments, especially those who have protanopia. Since there are no color substitution options in the game, it creates a directly exploitable blend that can vary from mildly difficult to near impossible to discern.

    I think the best thing BHVR can do to fix the issue (in lieu of actually making a colorblind mode) would be to allow players to set an override for cosmetics client side. In other words, all other survivors and killers would have base cosmetics on your screen, with the ability to toggle it on and off between matches. This way claudette would be toggled back to the pink shirt for any players who specifically have visual issues with her, as well as as any other survivor cosmetics that may be more of an issue than default ones. That way the cosmetics in question won't need any type of rework or redesign or anything like that, and players can opt out of them individually if they become an issue due to visual impairment.

    Edit: its worth noting that most people with various forms of colorblindness tend to have issues more with darker shades of their trouble colors, and clashing brightness/contrasts tend to be the best way to improve visibility. In a game thats based off of being dimly lit, it should be pretty clear as to why this can be an issue.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Ryuhi said:

    @JammyJewels said:
    Well. If you wish to ban cosmetics because they supposedly make survivors incredibly difficult to spot I suppose Survivors should be able to ban black Hags, or low TR killers. Since they can be hard to see, right?

    Claudette’s original design (pink shirt, bright blue jeans) are noticeable. But P3 does exactly what it does for everyone else. And her skin colour, being darker than most, is a fact of life that darker skinned people would obviously be harder to find than lighter skinned people. Hell, sometimes I lose track of whether my boyfriends is in the bed or not, and he’s black. But many complain about her race rather than her clothes.

    If Claudette is changed, so should everyone else. The grey on her new cosmetics set isn’t ludicrous, her Gypsie set is as noticeable as anything, her brown default sets are indeed ridiculous but would you like to know my solution?

    Give the other survivors either more dirt/blood or.... give them sleeves. Hell, I presume people were expecting a dark sleeved cosmetic for Nea when her sweaters were announced. In fact her Christmas sweater (and some others, mind you) are a good example of this. It would make logical sense to give them sleeves as it must be cold in the Entity’s realm... and it would give a bit of leeway to designers. 

    thats a bit of a false equivalence in regards to killer visibility, especially since the Wraith leaves an actually visible shimmer while cloaked (i.e. invisible) and the presence of, you know, terror radii in general. MOST of her cosmetics are fine, especially the aforementioned grey/pink/etc ones. The fact that she has dark cosmetics at all can turn her into a moving silhouette to people with visual impairments, especially those who have protanopia. Since there are no color substitution options in the game, it creates a directly exploitable blend that can vary from mildly difficult to near impossible to discern.

    I think the best thing BHVR can do to fix the issue (in lieu of actually making a colorblind mode) would be to allow players to set an override for cosmetics client side. In other words, all other survivors and killers would have base cosmetics on your screen, with the ability to toggle it on and off between matches. This way claudette would be toggled back to the pink shirt for any players who specifically have visual issues with her, as well as as any other survivor cosmetics that may be more of an issue than default ones. That way the cosmetics in question won't need any type of rework or redesign or anything like that, and players can opt out of them individually if they become an issue due to visual impairment.

    Edit: its worth noting that most people with various forms of colorblindness tend to have issues more with darker shades of their trouble colors, and clashing brightness/contrasts tend to be the best way to improve visibility. In a game thats based off of being dimly lit, it should be pretty clear as to why this can be an issue.

    If games were to cater to the minority of handicapped gamers then the average person would have an easier game handed to them. If they implemented a feature like that then imagine how many people would use it despite being visually capable of normal sight and colour interpretation. And all of this over one character who happens to have darker skin than the others?

    And you mention the Wraith. Claudette is constantly visible in terms of physicality. She has no invisibility option, it is merely the lack of attention paid to the small details. And a TR does not give away their directional position, so a black Hag could evade your sight as easily as a Claudette, or a Meg wearing a black hoodie. If a person is visually troubled I feel sorry for them and hope for them to be able to repair it. However, despite this, I have no empathy for them as they have chosen to play a game in which visuals are important. Just as a Claudette player has the full right to choose the character they want to. If people want to play as Claudette then they have the full right to. And it is wrong for anyone to suggest a change to the character without making changes to the rest of the cast. If there was a choice to be a certain race, particularly in dark environments... of course you’d choose those that are darker in skin tone. But it should not exclude that race of characters from wearing dark clothes or having the tone of their clothes adjusted just because of their skin colour.

    I might sound like an SJW. But there is an issue here with people’s standards.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583

    You're taking an issue of accessibility and unnecessarily making it about race. Like I've mentioned, Adam is a great example on how to make it a non-issue, and most of it has to do with his clothing. Tapp is also perfectly fine, which is good because I don't think they're even allowed to change his cosmetics.

    The reason dark clothes are less of an issue on most of the cast is because it contrasts with their skin, therefore it is easier to see movement. Note that i'm not suggesting three characters (Claudette, Adam, and Tapp) be changed, because the other two do not pose the same issue anywhere near to the extent as she does. Not only that, but most other character's dark clothes have a very bright patch to them, like meg's shirt under her hoodies, Bill's light undershirt, Feng's bright logos, or Nea's short sleeves. These all make the characters considerably more visible during movement. A lot of Claudette's cosmetics follow these guidelines, but some don't. That is the issue at hand.

    You also seem to have missed my point in killer visibility, which is that it is an absurd connection. There are a slew of other methods to know a killer's presence, including various forms of blaring audio. If a survivor is urban creeping around a rock or sitting with their back to you in a small corner, you have no such indications. Indeed, you need to go off of MUCH more subtle means like hearing breathing, or grass rustling when they move, and so on. This is why its so much more important for survivors to not be pseudo-chameleons and at least have some contrast to their environment.

    Colorblind accessibility is pretty standard in the video game industry, being arguably one of the most common form of assistance behind providing subtitles in games and alternative control methods. Your argument that it could be abused is kind of ironic, considering how hard you're defending a very small pool of cosmetics on a single character that do exactly that.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Hang the hell on. The OP was asking for Claudette to be changed and only her, having not even mentioned Adam or Tapp in the description part of their post. You are turning this into a matter of disabilities, forgetting that Dead By Daylight is not developed by a company that releases triple A games, nor is Dead By Daylight a triple A game. So setting standards to it as you would any other game with triple Dead By Daylight’s budget is absolutely stupid as implementing a fully functioning colourblind mode is incredibly difficult and most Devs just put a filter on a screen which is hardly a fix.

    And again, you’re talking about the cosmetics without realising that her cosmetics do the exact same thing as other characters. Prestige Clothes cover her in blood, the alternate colours of her default turn them different colours just as it does for other characters. I am saying that it is a race issue because everyone believes it is unfair for a dark skinned character to wear dark clothes. If any of this was told to someone in real life the messenger would be punched as it is an absolutely horrid message. Please, go out, and try explaining to someone why a dark skinned character can’t wear dark clothes. To say because it doesn’t contrast with their skin is absolutely ridiculous and insults me, even as someone who’s paler than the moon.

    If her cosmetics are being abused then it is sadly a side effect of the entire cosmetic store. Before the store the limited cosmetics meant that Prestige was the only true dark option any character had, which was earned and therefore a reward. In giving each and every character cosmetics they created a base recolour for everyone, as they should. If you are unable to pick up on audio cues or subtle visual cues then you are simply not a proficient killer. Asking for the survivors to contrast with the environment is a request from an idiot who is playing a role they are incapable of being, if such simple tasks are impossible for that player.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583
    edited January 10

    you're talking about a game that is glorified Tag, not real life. Yes, viability matters, due to how vision is arguably your most important tool as killer. Please stop trying to paint everyone that disagrees with you as racist (and an idiot apparently,) and especially please stop trying to parallel video game accessibility with real life scenarios.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Ryuhi said:

    you're talking about a game that is glorified Tag, not real life. Yes, viability matters, due to how vision is arguably your most important tool as killer. Please stop trying to paint everyone that disagrees with you as racist, and especially please stop trying to parallel video game accessibility with real life scenarios.

    But the matter of which we are speaking (Cosmetics = clothing) is absolutely stupid. A black character can be as darkly dressed or as dark as physically possible and it shouldn’t be seen as wrong.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583

    For the last time, we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a video game. A video game with a competitive focus with no AI aspect to it. Therefore yes, something like that can matter as it affects balance. There should always be cosmetics that can make it harder or even on a player, but never ones that give them an unfair advantage. That is the crux of the argument. If every map was covered in snow and there was a short, skinny white character with fully white clothes and hair, the exact same issue would be present. Same if everything was purple and there was a character that had purple skin and purple clothes and blah blah blah.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Ryuhi said:

    For the last time, we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a video game. A video game with a competitive focus with no AI aspect to it. Therefore yes, something like that can matter as it affects balance. There should always be cosmetics that can make it harder or even on a player, but never ones that give them an unfair advantage. That is the crux of the argument. If every map was covered in snow and there was a short, skinny white character with fully white clothes and hair, the exact same issue would be present. Same if everything was purple and there was a character that had purple skin and purple clothes and blah blah blah.

    Except there isn’t, because an all white outfit would most likely look ridiculous and would be hard to design. We are talking about a character that has clothes that are normal, in both design and general colour scheme other than the fantastical themed ones. Games can often represent our thoughts of real life subjects: why on Earth do you think so many people are much more violent on games? Because it is a method for that person to be angrier than they are in real life. So if someone decides that a character’s race (or, in Overwatch’s instance, a character’s sexuality) bothers them then it may be showing a sinister thing or two about that person’s beliefs.

    For instance. Again, despite me trying to explain the obvious point of white skin being equal to black skin you keep on acting as if it’s okay to totally exclude black characters from dark cosmetics simply because they’re hard to see. Cosmetics are always capable of affecting balance regardless due to thread physics causing clipping or technical issues, meshes changing and creating false senses of hit boxes, etc. But again. People are only finding issues with Claudette’s dark cosmetics because she herself is dark skinned. And yet if a white character were to wear those same cosmetics no one would have an inch worth of complaints. But no, gotta be toxic somehow, right? Like saying that a black character can’t wear the same dark shades as the white characters.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583
    edited January 10

    "Cosmetics are always capable of affecting balance regardless due to thread physics causing clipping or technical issues, meshes changing and creating false senses of hit boxes, etc. But again. People are only finding issues with Claudette’s dark cosmetics because she herself is dark skinned. "

    Swing and a miss. This is an online only game, so there will always be latency issues that will cause things like this to be a non issue, which is also exactly the case. Huntress hatchets hitting people around corners is far more of an issue than Feng's or Adam's coat swaying a bit. If anything, Kate's brightly colored ice picks make her more visible, so it has the opposite effect. Bonus: Having things sway on her clothing would actually IMPROVE her visibility, so it would be a welcome change! People are only finding issue with this because its the only combination that is ACTUALLY an issue.

    Let me give you another example since you seem content on misreading the situation: Face coverings. a few characters have face coverings that hide their lighter tone skin on their head model. How do the cosmetics retain being balanced? bright, neon hair. You could pull whatever argument that "people can wear face coverings without having to have neon hair in real life, so forcing it on them is an injustice" but they were designed that way to make them not lose any visibility vs the other cosmetics available. It was something that was thought over beforehand, and applied thusly.

    The only reason why its such an issue for Claudette at this point is because it wasn't thought through from the beginning of designing the cosmetics in question. If they never existed in the first place, you would have no reason to fixate so hard on them, and many people wouldn't have any issues with their visibility by merit of them not existing, or being designed with similar contrasting counterblanace. Again, you're taking a design issue about a video game and trying to forcibly juxtapose it to real life.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    Ryuhi said:

    "Cosmetics are always capable of affecting balance regardless due to thread physics causing clipping or technical issues, meshes changing and creating false senses of hit boxes, etc. But again. People are only finding issues with Claudette’s dark cosmetics because she herself is dark skinned. "

    Swing and a miss. This is an online only game, so there will always be latency issues that will cause things like this to be a non issue, which is also exactly the case. Huntress hatchets hitting people around corners is far more of an issue than Feng's or Adam's coat swaying a bit. If anything, Kate's brightly colored ice picks make her more visible, so it has the opposite effect. Bonus: Having things sway on her clothing would actually IMPROVE her visibility, so it would be a welcome change! People are only finding issue with this because its the only combination that is ACTUALLY an issue.

    Let me give you another example since you seem content on misreading the situation: Face coverings. a few characters have face coverings that hide their lighter tone skin on their head model. How do the cosmetics retain being balanced? bright, neon hair. You could pull whatever argument that "people can wear face coverings without having to have neon hair in real life, so forcing it on them is an injustice" but they were designed that way to make them not lose any visibility vs the other cosmetics available. It was something that was thought over beforehand, and applied thusly.

    The only reason why its such an issue for Claudette at this point is because it wasn't thought through from the beginning of designing the cosmetics in question. If they never existed in the first place, you would have no reason to fixate so hard on them, and many people wouldn't have any issues with their visibility by merit of them not existing, or being designed with similar contrasting counterblanace. Again, you're taking a design issue about a video game and trying to forcibly juxtapose it to real life.

    Whatever, you can keep on saying that I’m trying to attune it to real life when, in essence, you were trying to argue for disabilities being accommodated for, as though the game now has to make up for problems that the developers did not cause.

    Plus, you’d be discrediting the work and the effort of the designers just because, boo hoo, it doesn’t fit your perception of balance. They get paid to make the characters look nice and to come up with new ideas and designs, not to balance or design cosmetics around balance. Cosmetics are optional for the purchaser. Hell, if you argue for brighter clothes I argue for darker ones. Brighter clothes make it harder for survivors to see skill checks and so dark clothes would add more focus to the skill checks which in turn may make more actions efficiently faster.

    I do not agree with what you’re saying, not one bit, as it is still excluding the character based off of her skin tone.
  • RyuhiRyuhi Member Posts: 583

    @JammyJewels said:
    Whatever, you can keep on saying that I’m trying to attune it to real life when, in essence, you were trying to argue for disabilities being accommodated for, as though the game now has to make up for problems that the developers did not cause.

    Plus, you’d be discrediting the work and the effort of the designers just because, boo hoo, it doesn’t fit your perception of balance. They get paid to make the characters look nice and to come up with new ideas and designs, not to balance or design cosmetics around balance. Cosmetics are optional for the purchaser. Hell, if you argue for brighter clothes I argue for darker ones. Brighter clothes make it harder for survivors to see skill checks and so dark clothes would add more focus to the skill checks which in turn may make more actions efficiently faster.

    I do not agree with what you’re saying, not one bit, as it is still excluding the character based off of her skin tone.

    I mean, its not like it affects 8% of all males or anything, with only <0.0001% actually only seeing in monochrome. No reason to consider it when designing visuals in a game, especially when you aren't willing or able to create a more overarching fix. nope.

    I implore you, look through every other cosmetic for every single survivor and tell me of a harder to discern than claudettes full brown outfits. As for trying to paint me as insulting the design choices for the outfits, you're absolutely incorrect. Most of the cosmetics look great, and I've bought quite a few of them myself simply based on how they look. Cosmetics in games like this are one of the most direct ways to support the developer, since you're paying out of pocket for non-gameplay elements that (almost never) give you an advantage.

    And for your fake counter argument about lighter clothes? You'd have a stronger argument for nerfing lighting effects from things like burning barrels (which actually DO cause the skill checks to be harder to see.) The only other things that affect their visability are Ruin changing them to a deep red (purposely making them contrast worse vs the darker background, noticing a pattern?!) and the Doctor's madness effect moving them around the screen and introducing a static fuzz (also to intentionally make them more difficult.)

    Why do you even come back to this conversation? You're obviously just trying to create false equivalences and trying to paint anyone who disagrees with you as both racist and unintelligent. Meanwhile I've actually put constructive feedback and suggestions in with my arguments, so that if the devs are actually taking note of it, they will have ideas how to avoid this type of discussion from happening or even being warranted in the future.

    You don't have to agree with me at all, but acting like I'm racist for wanting to change claudette's ninja outfit is intellectually dishonest.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 1,521

    @JammyJewels said:
    Ryuhi said:

    For the last time, we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a video game. A video game with a competitive focus with no AI aspect to it. Therefore yes, something like that can matter as it affects balance. There should always be cosmetics that can make it harder or even on a player, but never ones that give them an unfair advantage. That is the crux of the argument. If every map was covered in snow and there was a short, skinny white character with fully white clothes and hair, the exact same issue would be present. Same if everything was purple and there was a character that had purple skin and purple clothes and blah blah blah.

    Except there isn’t, because an all white outfit would most likely look ridiculous and would be hard to design. We are talking about a character that has clothes that are normal, in both design and general colour scheme other than the fantastical themed ones. Games can often represent our thoughts of real life subjects: why on Earth do you think so many people are much more violent on games? Because it is a method for that person to be angrier than they are in real life. So if someone decides that a character’s race (or, in Overwatch’s instance, a character’s sexuality) bothers them then it may be showing a sinister thing or two about that person’s beliefs.

    For instance. Again, despite me trying to explain the obvious point of white skin being equal to black skin you keep on acting as if it’s okay to totally exclude black characters from dark cosmetics simply because they’re hard to see. Cosmetics are always capable of affecting balance regardless due to thread physics causing clipping or technical issues, meshes changing and creating false senses of hit boxes, etc. But again. People are only finding issues with Claudette’s dark cosmetics because she herself is dark skinned. And yet if a white character were to wear those same cosmetics no one would have an inch worth of complaints. But no, gotta be toxic somehow, right? Like saying that a black character can’t wear the same dark shades as the white characters.

    You do know that Claudette once had an all black outfit in the store right? It was just a reskin of her normal clothes. It was taken out because it would have easily been abused. Trying to find her in an ALL black outfit is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Her clothes that she has now are perfectly fine. People have issues with the green, brown, and P3 clothes because they darken and camo her even more than she already is.

    I am a POC and I’m not offended by anything anybody has said in this thread. It’s a sensitive topic, but again...it’s just a video game. There are reasons why the lighting has been adjusted on most maps. Some maps are just too dark and Claudette can blend in better than anybody else. Having 4 P3 immersed Claudette‘s on the swamp will make even the best killer annoyed.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    MegMain98 said:

    @JammyJewels said:
    Ryuhi said:

    For the last time, we're not talking about real life, we're talking about a video game. A video game with a competitive focus with no AI aspect to it. Therefore yes, something like that can matter as it affects balance. There should always be cosmetics that can make it harder or even on a player, but never ones that give them an unfair advantage. That is the crux of the argument. If every map was covered in snow and there was a short, skinny white character with fully white clothes and hair, the exact same issue would be present. Same if everything was purple and there was a character that had purple skin and purple clothes and blah blah blah.

    Except there isn’t, because an all white outfit would most likely look ridiculous and would be hard to design. We are talking about a character that has clothes that are normal, in both design and general colour scheme other than the fantastical themed ones. Games can often represent our thoughts of real life subjects: why on Earth do you think so many people are much more violent on games? Because it is a method for that person to be angrier than they are in real life. So if someone decides that a character’s race (or, in Overwatch’s instance, a character’s sexuality) bothers them then it may be showing a sinister thing or two about that person’s beliefs.

    For instance. Again, despite me trying to explain the obvious point of white skin being equal to black skin you keep on acting as if it’s okay to totally exclude black characters from dark cosmetics simply because they’re hard to see. Cosmetics are always capable of affecting balance regardless due to thread physics causing clipping or technical issues, meshes changing and creating false senses of hit boxes, etc. But again. People are only finding issues with Claudette’s dark cosmetics because she herself is dark skinned. And yet if a white character were to wear those same cosmetics no one would have an inch worth of complaints. But no, gotta be toxic somehow, right? Like saying that a black character can’t wear the same dark shades as the white characters.

    You do know that Claudette once had an all black outfit in the store right? It was just a reskin of her normal clothes. It was taken out because it would have easily been abused. Trying to find her in an ALL black outfit is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Her clothes that she has now are perfectly fine. People have issues with the green, brown, and P3 clothes because they darken and camo her even more than she already is.

    I am a POC and I’m not offended by anything anybody has said in this thread. It’s a sensitive topic, but again...it’s just a video game. There are reasons why the lighting has been adjusted on most maps. Some maps are just too dark and Claudette can blend in better than anybody else. Having 4 P3 immersed Claudette‘s on the swamp will make even the best killer annoyed.

    Thank you for coming into the discussion respectfully. It is just that the changes made to her black outfit (I know the one you speak of) was actually a change I like given that grey was the primary colour of the pallet with subtle black in the attire. It seems stupid to demand a change only for her and, as the OP seemed to have intended, for Adam as well. Her brown is indeed dark but as are Nea’s, an excellent example of dark cosmetics that can be equally as effective as Claudette’s dark cosmetics. 

    But frankly it’s too late into the Store’s release to make such a change as it isn’t causing anything that is technically damaging to the character’s mesh or the environment or anything. If changes are made I insist simply that they change the other characters and the tone of their alternately coloured default designs. If Claudette’s visibility is complained about and the others are so different I can only imagine that it would not affect the other survivors’ visibility.
  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    Yet when it's Lery's or Gideons or say Ormond I'm sure you killers come here complaining about if demand they change it so she's not sticking out like a sore thumb on maps where her P3 is a bad thing.

    Wraith, Pig, Nurse, Doctor and Legion once he smacks someone all make her camo useless then you've got Whispers and now the new and improved Spies from The Shadows.

    Let's also not forget Scratched Mirror Myers, Amanda and Wraith aura add ons etc.

  • VolantConch1719VolantConch1719 Member Posts: 403

    Just going to throw this out there, I almost never have a problem finding Claudette. For some reason, I run into a lot of them wearing her green lab vest, but even when they aren't, If they make even a slight bit of movement, I'll likely spot them. Our eyes are naturally tuned to spot movement.

    Yes, she's great for stealth, but it only takes one slip up for all of that to go away. My problem with her is how often she is seen as the symbol of toxicity. Those people don't even use her P3 to really hide, just to be annoying. When I see a P3 Claudette, it's not how hard she will be to find that I worry about. It's how painful the game will actually be.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,071

    @VolantConch1719 said:
    Just going to throw this out there, I almost never have a problem finding Claudette. For some reason, I run into a lot of them wearing her green lab vest, but even when they aren't, If they make even a slight bit of movement, I'll likely spot them. Our eyes are naturally tuned to spot movement.

    Yes, she's great for stealth, but it only takes one slip up for all of that to go away. My problem with her is how often she is seen as the symbol of toxicity. Those people don't even use her P3 to really hide, just to be annoying. When I see a P3 Claudette, it's not how hard she will be to find that I worry about. It's how painful the game will actually be.

    I stopped using her P3 outfit because killers would simply either dodge, tunnel and hard camp you while ignoring the actual toxic players and then say it's because I was toxic. This despite the fact I never tea bagged, didn't loop endlessly and don't sabo their hooks right in front of them.

    It's the mere fact I play stealthy and don't teabag, run in front of them and loop them endlessly they feel deprived of the chance to thump their chest. It's like if you're not actually toxic well you must be toxic because Claudette and because you weren't toxic but you have to be mindset.

    Meanwhile the people teabagging the killer and saboing hooks right next to them get ignored because hey you're wearing a P3 outfit etc.

  • JammyJewelsJammyJewels Member Posts: 608
    powerbats said:

    @VolantConch1719 said:
    Just going to throw this out there, I almost never have a problem finding Claudette. For some reason, I run into a lot of them wearing her green lab vest, but even when they aren't, If they make even a slight bit of movement, I'll likely spot them. Our eyes are naturally tuned to spot movement.

    Yes, she's great for stealth, but it only takes one slip up for all of that to go away. My problem with her is how often she is seen as the symbol of toxicity. Those people don't even use her P3 to really hide, just to be annoying. When I see a P3 Claudette, it's not how hard she will be to find that I worry about. It's how painful the game will actually be.

    I stopped using her P3 outfit because killers would simply either dodge, tunnel and hard camp you while ignoring the actual toxic players and then say it's because I was toxic. This despite the fact I never tea bagged, didn't loop endlessly and don't sabo their hooks right in front of them.

    It's the mere fact I play stealthy and don't teabag, run in front of them and loop them endlessly they feel deprived of the chance to thump their chest. It's like if you're not actually toxic well you must be toxic because Claudette and because you weren't toxic but you have to be mindset.

    Meanwhile the people teabagging the killer and saboing hooks right next to them get ignored because hey you're wearing a P3 outfit etc.

    Sadly I’ve had to stop wearing her Prestige set as well. If I don’t I wear it I get games. If I do... well, let’a just say that it took an hour to find a game that I didn’t get kicked from because the host disconnected.
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