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Creative way to fix SWF

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Comments

  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,205

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    JawsIsTheNextKiller said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:

    you just suck at the game suck it up and git gud

    If a killer is at rank 5, 10, 15 or even 20 shouldn't they be able to enjoy a fair and reasonable game balanced to their skill level?

    If the game only caters for those that "got gud" there would be no new players and the player base would die off. The game may need SWF to survive but it needs people playing killer even more.

    My point is that they're already balanced for the most part, there are already killers who can 4k almost every game swf or not , they need to make it harder to pip up  honestly so that way there aren't potatoes at rank one getting slaughtered for either side , the game isn't unfair at all, a year and a half ago I would have been right here with you arguing but there have been so many qol changes and buffs to killers that it's not really that difficult anymore to play it's just more of a stress on time and knowing gen placement/control and how to keep the pressure on. Do I 4k every game? No I don't and I'm not going to pretend that I do but usually I can go back and see what I did wrong  or areas where I mind gamed myself and caused the situation to worsen and im rank one every season averaging a 3k usually maining as spirit , doctor, or Billy

    Ive been saying this for ages. It must be significantly harder to pip for both sides, as long as we see unviable killers at rank 1, there is sth wrong with the ranking system.

  • LaakeriLaakeri Member Posts: 833

    I hate the fact that even when I duo with my friend we get so much information from each other, we even both run Bond to make it basically 3.5 perk game for us, we also dont use cruches, offerings or items.

    Simple "hey ruin is in this jungle gym ill kite him away so you can get it" is game changing information that shouldnt exist in first place.

    So yeah I play duo at max, and I'm all for nerfing SWF as its absurd how far you can take the advantage that SWF offers.

  • PiiFreePiiFree Member Posts: 1,140

    @Laakeri said:
    I hate the fact that even when I duo with my friend we get so much information from each other, we even both run Bond to make it basically 3.5 perk game for us, we also dont use cruches, offerings or items.

    Simple "hey ruin is in this jungle gym ill kite him away so you can get it" is game changing information that shouldnt exist in first place.

    So yeah I play duo at max, and I'm all for nerfing SWF as its absurd how far you can take the advantage that SWF offers.

    Exactly, and now imagine if there was a built-in voice chat? Ridiculous, right?

    People talk about it as if it would be an easy thing. You'd have to rework half the perks and quite a few add-ons that rely on survivors unawareness.

  • Rebel_RavenRebel_Raven Member Posts: 1,654
    PiiFree said:

    @Laakeri said:
    I hate the fact that even when I duo with my friend we get so much information from each other, we even both run Bond to make it basically 3.5 perk game for us, we also dont use cruches, offerings or items.

    Simple "hey ruin is in this jungle gym ill kite him away so you can get it" is game changing information that shouldnt exist in first place.

    So yeah I play duo at max, and I'm all for nerfing SWF as its absurd how far you can take the advantage that SWF offers.

    Exactly, and now imagine if there was a built-in voice chat? Ridiculous, right?

    People talk about it as if it would be an easy thing. You'd have to rework half the perks and quite a few add-ons that rely on survivors unawareness.

    And then you would have to buff killers to compensate.
    Competing against people relaying that much data is going to be a gargantuan task, and buffing doesn't seem straight forward to me.
  • NickehNickeh Member Posts: 278

    Decrease gen repair or all around action speed on swf group members. Not by obscene amounts, but scale it to how many are in the same swf group (2 members have less of a nerf than a 4 man team). I'm pretty sure that's the easiest, fairest, fix.

  • MPGamer18MPGamer18 Member Posts: 95
    edited January 2019

    The easiest way to deal with SWF is show who's in a group in the lobby. That way there is no advantage for SWF. The Killer knows they are working together and if they want to tunnel and camp … do it. Giving them their own mode separate from solo would also help. It's not just killers these players are griefing. They do it to survivors who are not in their group too.

    This isn't F13. That game was designed with mics in mind and doesn't work right without it. DBD works better without mics and outside of a few morons, everyone knows how to play. SWF players are mostly [BAD WORD] players who's only strength is in their numbers. Once you hook them (or tunnel) and they realize they aren't getting off they disconnect.

  • MPGamer18MPGamer18 Member Posts: 95

    No one wants to hear squeakers in a match. They ruined F13 and this game works much better without voice. The root of all evil starts with SWF. They grief killers ... killers get mad and then killers take it out on next match. Rinse and Repeat. Just give SWF their own mode separate from solo and that's that. Who cares if they ever play again.

    If not, the easiest way to address them is to show who's grouped together in the lobby. That way killer's can dodge if they choose. Survivors can dodge as well. SWF players grief other survivors too. They'll sell you out in a second to protect their own. They are toxic players by nature.

    Since their only strength is in numbers, if you take that away, you've at least leveled the playing field somewhat. Anytime a SWF get's hooked or tunneled, they end up disconnecting anyway … so let the killer have at it.

    In the long term SWF is not healthy for this community in any state.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @PiiFree said:

    @powerbats said:
    I'm not sure if you're talking to @master here or me since there's no context to your last comment.

    Dude firstly, I literally put a QUOTE before the statement that IS the context.

    Secondly, you did not read my OP at all because you imply that my solution would nerf solo survivors while it in fact has ABSOLUTELY no impact on solos.

    I'm not even going to keep discussing with you, your lack of reading comprehension is seriously pissing me off.

    E: and after still reading your whole post I'm even more sure that I'm not going to discuss with you. This is not about Killer / Survivor imbalance, this is SOLELY about SWF with NO relation to ANYTHING else. Not SWF vs Killer, not SWF vs Solos but "SWF and their unintended advantage: Voice communication".

    Ok but you had him quoted in your statement so you were literally addressing us both not one person so no it didn't have context who you were referring to. If you were referring to me singularly you'd have taken out his name and simply tagged me in it for context.

    Actually I did read your op and you're not seeing the forest for the trees here and in fact your ideas will nerf solo.

    Since if it's easier to pick off swf that means they die that much quicker leaving the solo players easier prey since as you pointed out they can't communicate. Now think that through for just a minute here, the swf can still use voice to say I see him here etc but have reduced fov.

    You as a killer can deduce that swf is players 1,2,4 and thus are going to be easier to get due to their reduced fov. Since that solo can't communicate and has a wider fov they're the more important target since they can see more.

    Now add to that the person might be running bond since they're solo and will want heals and be able to go to help heal. So you as a smart killer want to remove the person running Bond and the extra information it gives asap. So because smart killers will focus solo more knowing that swf hs reduced fov yes it will impact solo's.

    The only one with lack of reading comprehension here is you, you want to keep on ignoring anything you don't like and that your confirmation bias blinders can't see.

    There you go with the forest and the trees again since you can't balance one without affecting the other, if you change one part of an equation you change another part.

    Here I'll give you an example where 2+2+2=6 that's pretty well understood but if you change it to 2+4+2 it becomes 8 which is also well understood. Now because we've changed 1 part of the equation we changed the initial equations results.

    So if you change swf you affect killers and you affect solo's, that's basic logic there.

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    I'll post this yet again, the devs idea is to buff solo players up the level of swf by giving them a base Kindred so that they're basically on the same information level as swf.

    Then since all survivors will be mostly equal information wise killers can then be buffed up to that level and thus there's no imbalance when killers get buffed to solo players.

  • PeanitsPeanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 6,415
    Low FOV cameras cause a lot of people to get headaches or motion sickness, so I don't think tightening the FOV is the right way to go about it.

    Not to mention a group could creatively circumvent that by doing what people did in the beta, by solo queueing and leave the lobby if their friends aren't there.
  • MasterMaster Member Posts: 10,205

    @Peanits said:
    Low FOV cameras cause a lot of people to get headaches or motion sickness, so I don't think tightening the FOV is the right way to go about it.

    Not to mention a group could creatively circumvent that by doing what people did in the beta, by solo queueing and leave the lobby if their friends aren't there.

    That doesnt stop them putting low FOV restrictions upon killers.

  • DehitayDehitay Member Posts: 1,587

    @powerbats said:

    1. They removed all moonlight offerings and brightened all maps to help killers.

    Most of your post was right on, but I can't help but comment on this part cause the changes have been severely annoying for me. The "brightened" maps may seem like a buff, but you have to look at how they did it. They didn't actually make things brighter, they just put a white screen over everything. Fortunately, it has a minimal effect in most maps, but in Ormond specifically, it's so ridiculously bad , fresh scratch marks on snow are about as visible as faded scratch marks on other maps. All logic would suggest they should show up more clearly on white rather than dark green. But they don't cause the effects they use don't actually brighten things, they just put a white film on the top of everything.

  • Condorloco_26Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714
    edited January 2019
    Master said:


    That doesnt stop them putting low FOV restrictions upon killers.

    Or forcing players through nausea inducing animations like nurse's fatigue and the incredibly useless effect of bloodlust. The latter gives you the sweet bonus of a half second freeze (at least) and a nice drop in FPS on a PS4 so you  can perfectly miss your swing.
  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @Dehitay said:

    @powerbats said:

    1. They removed all moonlight offerings and brightened all maps to help killers.

    Most of your post was right on, but I can't help but comment on this part cause the changes have been severely annoying for me. The "brightened" maps may seem like a buff, but you have to look at how they did it. They didn't actually make things brighter, they just put a white screen over everything. Fortunately, it has a minimal effect in most maps, but in Ormond specifically, it's so ridiculously bad , fresh scratch marks on snow are about as visible as faded scratch marks on other maps. All logic would suggest they should show up more clearly on white rather than dark green. But they don't cause the effects they use don't actually brighten things, they just put a white film on the top of everything.

    Well for Ormond they're working on the vfx changes for that since that's more due to the new engine updates and I'll have to hop on the PTB and see if it's a bit better.

  • Condorloco_26Condorloco_26 Member Posts: 1,714
    edited January 2019
    powerbats said:

    I'll post this yet again, the devs idea is to buff solo players up the level of swf by giving them a base Kindred so that they're basically on the same information level as swf.

    Then since all survivors will be mostly equal information wise killers can then be buffed up to that level and thus there's no imbalance when killers get buffed to solo players.

    I honestly think they won't ever buff killers to "match" SWF strengths.

    The reason I say this is that killers (even the weak ones) are already wrecking the place and murdering everybody (especially solos) in the 15 - 20 ranks, and given that at those ranks even SWF are not playing optimally, survival rates would drastically drop. I don't think any amount of information will substantially help solos at those ranks, when everyone is just getting to know the game mechanics.

    That said, new survivors would have close to zero reasons to keep playing, or dying I should say. Bad business, in other words.

    Besides, they've already stated not all killers have to be viable, and you can play as Billy or Nurse if you want to kill people.

    I could only suggest balancing around brackets, make ranking skill based, etc etc etc. Not happening
  • MorfedelMorfedel Member Posts: 198
    edited January 2019

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    Survival rates are still under 50% your argument is invalid and proven to be just an opinion of salty killer by the devs with their statistics and facts.

    Source?

    EDIT: I saw you responded in another post it was "some developer live stream," but if that's the case, they have all those in youtube. Do you have a link to which one they said this in? It's relevant for two reasons:

    1. Prove this was an accurate quote
    2. if its an old quote, it may no longer be accurate since various updates.
  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @Morfedel said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    Survival rates are still under 50% your argument is invalid and proven to be just an opinion of salty killer by the devs with their statistics and facts.

    Source?

    EDIT: I saw you responded in another post it was "some developer live stream," but if that's the case, they have all those in youtube. Do you have a link to which one they said this in? It's relevant for two reasons:

    1. Prove this was an accurate quote
    2. if its an old quote, it may no longer be accurate since various updates.

    This was I beleive the last devstream done in early December or late November.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/336270950?filter=all&sort=time

    24:43 is where it starts.

  • MorfedelMorfedel Member Posts: 198

    @powerbats said:

    @Morfedel said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    Survival rates are still under 50% your argument is invalid and proven to be just an opinion of salty killer by the devs with their statistics and facts.

    Source?

    EDIT: I saw you responded in another post it was "some developer live stream," but if that's the case, they have all those in youtube. Do you have a link to which one they said this in? It's relevant for two reasons:

    1. Prove this was an accurate quote
    2. if its an old quote, it may no longer be accurate since various updates.

    This was I beleive the last devstream done in early December or late November.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/336270950?filter=all&sort=time

    24:43 is where it starts.

    That's great information, thanks!

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @Morfedel said:

    @powerbats said:

    @Morfedel said:

    @OrionsFury4789 said:
    Survival rates are still under 50% your argument is invalid and proven to be just an opinion of salty killer by the devs with their statistics and facts.

    Source?

    EDIT: I saw you responded in another post it was "some developer live stream," but if that's the case, they have all those in youtube. Do you have a link to which one they said this in? It's relevant for two reasons:

    1. Prove this was an accurate quote
    2. if its an old quote, it may no longer be accurate since various updates.

    This was I beleive the last devstream done in early December or late November.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/336270950?filter=all&sort=time

    24:43 is where it starts.

    That's great information, thanks!

    Yw, I couldn't remember which one it was so I went and rewatched them again haha.

  • MarknessMarkness Member Posts: 174

    Give killers bonus BP post-game for facing SWF. Something like a stack of BBQ and chili per SWF member. Otherwise expect some dodging when there are people with 4 private profiles loading in at the same time.

  • DreamnomadDreamnomad Member Posts: 2,813

    Terrible idea.

  • Warlock_2020Warlock_2020 Member Posts: 1,868

    I would like to see just one thing with SWF's. Put in a comm system and outlaw 3rd party systems. Every time the survivors talk on it, the killer gets an audible murmur if he is within a certain range. Sort of like Charlie Brown's teacher. As the killer closes in, he can hear the conversation better, and better. That will change the entire atmosphere of the game. If you are chasing a survivor and you hear someone telling him to go to the killer shack and they can help, then you know what to expect. Why not let the killer in on the action too?

  • powerbatspowerbats Member Posts: 7,068

    @Warlock_2020 said:
    I would like to see just one thing with SWF's. Put in a comm system and outlaw 3rd party systems. Every time the survivors talk on it, the killer gets an audible murmur if he is within a certain range. Sort of like Charlie Brown's teacher. As the killer closes in, he can hear the conversation better, and better. That will change the entire atmosphere of the game. If you are chasing a survivor and you hear someone telling him to go to the killer shack and they can help, then you know what to expect. Why not let the killer in on the action too?

    You can't ban voice that way and in game voice comms won't happen for all the reasons that've been discussed before. It helped kill F13 and other games since no one wants to listen to screaming 12 year olds and you can't simply mute someone while being chased.

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