Old Undying? Yes, definitely. The issue was Ruin, and that could have been adjusted. Nerfing Undying was a huge nerf to all hex builds, even the bad ones.
Old Ruin? No. That just wouldn't work now, and it would make Ruin incredibly good against newbies and utterly useless against anyone experienced.
Yeah, there are other examples, like the old flashlight stuns, OoO and more. This is actually really common for devs, and is often called 'developer arrogance'.
Yeah, a lot of people have suggested forcing at least some sort of commitment to stop regression. For...years now.
Everyone and their dog agrees that COH needs a nerf, and if BHVR were going to nerf it they would be doing it in 5.5.
As they aren't, that needs to be the new balance metric.
They did with the new, more realistic survivor movement animations.
Much, much work from the animators and so on but since survivor didn't want to relearn muscle memory and so on, it was rerolled.
Boon totems are ridiculous.
You know what this community is like. Every other game is going to be people calling each other names, 13 year-olds screaming racial slurs, and trolls playing Rickrolls and Johnny Rebel songs. It would make the endgame chat look like nothing, and there'd be no way of moderating any of it.
I do think it's a bit stupid that we aren't allowed to use the f-word on a forum for an M-rated video game with a strong language descriptor, but even I don't want to know what would happen if we allowed in-game voice chat.
Not more than current Boon perks.
While we´re at it. Dribbling as well, i guess.
No. CoH is busted but that doesn't mean you should bring back a busted perk. Plus I think it would be a nerf to Devour Hope which I wouldn't like.
So if you don't run Ruin and Undying you just get yeeted by COH? Just nerf COH instead and we're fine.
Yes, more than current Boon totems. Old Undying added an absurd RNG element to the strength of totems, sometimes requiring up to 5 cleanses to disable a single perk. It was the closest thing killers ever had to perks playing the game for them.
For real! This is just such a crazy play that you couldn't make it up.
Yeah, up to 5 cleanses really sounds terrible. Especially after the killer kicked the boon for the 10th time.
Oh and what do you mean with "closest thing killers ever had to perks playing the game for them"? Do you mean the combo Undying Ruin? Because as far as i remember, Ruin does nothing while you hug a gen. Killer has to do something to get survivors away from the gens. Or what do you mean?
If the survivors are still alive and escaping after lighting boons 5+ times in a single trial, I question whether the killer is at their keyboard or holding their controller 100% of the time in that game. That's not a CoH problem.
I mean that the combo of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer was essentially autopilot. Killers imagine every survivor team has this optimal level of coordination, but the overwhelming majority of survivor lobbies have some solo queue component. One or two survivors are going to be totem hunting, one is going to be saving, and the killer is going to get a Tinkerer alert on the one gen in progress. Sure, a highly coordinated team of good players can deal with Undying barring bad RNG, but we can flip this exercise around too: a high level killer will almost never lose a game with old Undying/Ruin/Tinkerer. It's next to impossible to lose if you're good at killer with that build. It wasn't healthy for the game.
It takes 14 seconds to light a boon. 5+ times could be easily achieved without wasting any time, when several survivors bring boon perks.
So what does the killer when he gets tinkerer alerts from 2 or 3 gens at the same time? He can only run to 1 gen. Chances are high that said regressing gen will be completed by another survivor who sees that gen.
I wasn't around for old ruin undying. Can someone explain to me what was OP about it? Like a worse case scenario happening to survivors against old ruin undying.
Old Undying was disgusting and extremely broken on high mobility Killers, having to cleanse 4 totems WHILE the Killer reads you aura while you cleanse is absurd.
CoH needs tweaking but bringing back bad designed stuff is not the answer, what could be the answer to Blight+Old Undying+Ruin+Tinkerer+BBQ? first iteration DS?.
Old undying could prevent a hex being cleansed up to 4 times, unless you cleansed undying first. Killers also saw the aura of survivors on hex totems as well. One thing to note was it didn't transfer tokens as it does right now (ie didn't really work too well with devour, lullaby, etc). So I guess worst case was a high mobility killer with ruin, and ruin being cleansed at 5 totems (if at all).
I like everything I read about old Undying as long as its interaction with Ruin was adjusted to make it not as punitive to survivors. With the exception of Devour Hope at three stacks and Ruin, most survivors I face don't even bother to look for hexes. As tokens would disappear, old Undying's interaction with Devour Hope would already be restricted. Even with New Undying, I normally can't get 5 Devour stacks before it's cleansed so I don't see it making an insurmountable difference with old Undying.
Ruin, on the other hand, if I can stop it being cleansed makes it an almost guaranteed 3 or 4K. That would be too powerful with old Undying.
I'd be incredibly happy with new Undying though if it stopped my hex totems from being overwritten by boons. It would also make Pentimiento useful with more hexes other than Plaything.
Old ruin is a nerf to new ruin.
As a survivor, I'd gladly take old ruin to this passive regression bs.
Old undying, would only promote more boons
If only I had the confidence in BHVR tp actually do actually have the sense to do that. It seems lately that for every 1 thing they do right they do 2 things wrong. For instance, they saw the backlash that old Undying had with Tinkerer and nerfed it to not be as powerful but then decided to have an entire mechanic for survivors that was essentially the same thing. Strike 1 against.
Then after creating this new mechanic that they didn't seem to think would undermine Hex Totems in anyway they then came out with the Artist that had a Hex perk that required cleansing which is now unnecessary. Strike 2 against.
Then we come to this latest Developer Update that outside of a few things was lukewarm at best and given all of the controversy surrounding COH I find it odd that it wasn't mentioned at all from anything I have seen so far. It would at least be something to at least have them mention looking into it even if they don't plan to do anything at the moment but from all I have seen they haven't. Strike 3 against.
Honestly I believe that the Hex mechanic needs to be reworked from the ground up and perhaps either let Killers set their own totems or give them a passive Hex buff along with their perks that starts weak and gets stronger as the game is slipping away. But we will see what the future holds.
Place a boon over a hex takes a lot of time meaning someone is not working on gens. It's a fair trade off.
Old ruin is worse than new ruin, but I agree that something NEEDS to be done about the boon problem.
14 seconds is not really that much extra gen time tbh, compared to the other 42 gen seconds that go out at the same time. (14s*3 survivors)
Considering how powerful hexes are supposed to be, they are laughably fragile. I only use hexes now that are meant to be broken. I don't bother with anything else, not even ruin anymore with Pain Resonance out.
Implying old Ruin Undying was anywhere near as strong as survivor perks.....
Do you know how absurd 3 Ruins was on Blight with Tinkerer
Tinkerer doesn’t matter that much beyond the first time or two he uses it. After that you should know to expect it and hear him rushing. I think old undying was good because it incentivized survivors to do another objective.
No. It's time they balance COH and not band-aid it with other perk buffs.
LMAO thinking the stealth part of Tinkerer is the strong part
So what is, forcing someone off a gen? Blight can only chase one person at a time and is still loopable.
The information it provides yes.
The whole issue of Ruin Undying Tinkerer is bringing it in public games vs solos, who have ######### all tools to deal with. So yes, the information it provides and the ability to chase people off of gens for ruin to take it is absolutely the string part of the perk, and using it yesterday for the first time in a year reminded me why it was so bullshit in the firs tplace when dealing with solo teams.