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Nemesis NEEDS a rework, he's a pay to lose killer

CanasCanas Member Posts: 601
edited January 9 in General Discussions

Right now you're better off with playing Pyramid Head, not only is the hitbox on his projectile longer and wider, it also doesn't give survivors a third health state & bypasses structures. And it even deals AOE damage!

Meanwhile Nemesis has an extremely slim hitbox on his tentacle which can't even bypass collision and gets easily countered by anyone simply crouching behind a structure. What reason would anyone have to play this killer?

Nemesis might have a pair of zombies stalking the map but they rarely ever prove to be useful, most of the time they tend to get stuck in the environment and their movespeed is simply too slow to make a difference. Pyramid Head meanwhile can flatout ignore and counter things like DS and flashlights due to how powerful his ability is.

Nemesis in his current state is simply a pay to lose killer. I absolutely do not comprehend how the devs could even consider nerfing him if he's in dire need of buffs to actually get a niché of his own. As long as Pyramid Head exists, Nemmy's playstyle will be always inferior.



  • CanasCanas Member Posts: 601
  • CanasCanas Member Posts: 601

    A hundred times this. It's his most iconic weapon, they need to give it to him like Trickster got his Main Event.

  • AltarfAltarf Member Posts: 1,043

    The thing about Nemesis is that he's actually very strong if the survivors are playing "fair". When I say "fair", I mean no excessive "genrushing" (mass splitting up on gens and hyper efficiency), looping instead of holding W, etc. Because then he's under less of a time crunch, and that third health state is more of a chase extender than a game loser. His power also rewards switching targets due to how Mutation buildup works.

    However, when the survivors are intent on getting out in 4 minutes, Nemesis is dramatically weakened. He can do nothing against holding W, and in fact gives survivors 2 speed bursts per chase where they can just hold W, and 3 hits to down instead of 2 adds up very quickly with fast teams. Nemesis also has decent tracking, but less map pressure than his Zombies should be doing because of their tendency to ignore survivors and get stuck on everything. Also, unlike PH, he sucks at camping, slugging and tunneling because of Mutation and Vaccines being a thing.

    He's meant to be a killer that gets stronger as the trial goes on, but the problem is that against experienced teams the trial rarely goes on long enough for him to truly be a threat. For Nemesis to be a serious threat, he needs to be in T2/T3 and 2 or more vaccines need to be gone. At that point, however, in these matches there's likely only 1 or 2 gens left.

  • CanasCanas Member Posts: 601

    He absolutely needs a sprint ability, he does it all the time in his own games after all. He's especially relentless in the remake where he can literally jump in front of the survivor to cut off their escape. The version of Nemesis we received got heavily neutered, he's just a husk of his former self now. Truly a disservice to this legendary pursuer, he needs drastic changes to regain his glory.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayerThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 3,881

    He should get a rework to make him more accurate and unique, but he's not weak

  • SepexSepex Member Posts: 929

    And imo Nemesis is by far the most boring Killer.

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    same can be said for almost all licensed killers PH and Pinhead are the only ones that people seem to say are good, a lot.

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    no not really maybe it's just me but I have to agree that his power needs reworking it seems to be a bit too specific at times when it comes to where it needs to hit.

  • VeinslayVeinslay Member Posts: 752
    edited January 9

    Nemesis isn't the strongest, but he's actually really fun to play IMO. It sucks they're nerfing Marvin's Blood though. He also seems to be extremely popular. When I play solo survivor, I can't go three games without facing off against a Nemesis

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,382

    This. The zombies are pretty good imo, but they could be better. Nemesis is far from weak.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,769

    Nemesis’ zombies are actually quite good for tracking information. When I play Nemesis I keep an eye on the Zombies and head over to the ones with arms outstretched since it tells you not only that a survivor is nearby but also what direction they’re heading. Then I get into a chase with that survivor and hopefully angle yourself so that I’m corralling the survivor toward that zombie to maybe screwup their escape route. After the chase I quickly whip the zombie for extra infection and also to force it to respawn at a different spot to keep survivors unsure where the zombies are.

    Honestly if the devs manage to address zombie pathing, and maybe speed them up just slightly, they’d be pretty great. 🙂 I don’t even care about the whip that much other that it is terrific at breaking pallets on the fly.

  • tippy2k2tippy2k2 Member Posts: 2,966

    I don't think he needs a rework but his zeds need to actually be useful and not get stuck on a rock all the time. When the zeds are actually useful and function the way they should, Nemy is incredibly strong

    Unfortunately this is BHVR and having functioning AI seems to be beyond their power as (at least) once a game the stupid things get themselves stuck and I need to go smack them out. So maybe he does need a rework to something that doesn't have to rely on BHVR AI to be functional...

  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 5,263

    I used to think this, but Nemmy is actually pretty decent. You just have to get really good with his whip.

    I don't play him much anymore, the three reasons being:

    • Awful, awful addons. Boring, weak, terrible iris.
    • Zombies are janky and too easy to counter with a single flashlight.
    • Some maps are inconsistent with whether you can whip through or over things.
  • FixtionuLFixtionuL Member Posts: 54

    I think one thing to help him would be making his initial infecting tentacle strike not give survivors sprint burst like how plague doesn't give sprint burst for starting infection.

    I'll be curious to see how big the change to Marvin's blood is, but the other addon that was changed is laughable. 50% zombie speed down to 35%. The common tier addon is 25%. 10% increased buff for common to uncommon tier, woah so game changing.

  • FIzzbinFIzzbin Member Posts: 21

    I agree. You will never see a Nemesis doing well in high MMR. He is just as bad as the rest of the M1 killers. His zombies are a disgrace. They get stuck all the time and can't be directed in any way by Nemesis, making them very inconsistent as a part of his kit.

  • PlayTwinkPlayTwink Member Posts: 454

    This and also the fact that his tentacle gives survivor a free sprint burst when they're firstly injected with it.

  • TheGannManTheGannMan Member Posts: 8,477

    Rocket Launcher pls.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 3,315

    Maybe if the zombies were stronger they could actually compensate for the eight extra health states. Unfortunately I find him weak and unfortunately I find him incredibly fun.

  • TheDarkTyrantTheDarkTyrant Member Posts: 1,571

    I have my own reasons for changing him but the changes I want I think will have most people have more fun. I don't think he is pay to lose though. But PH is 100% better.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxdayhailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 334

    I'm in full support of a hitbox buff. He's borderline unplayable on Stadia and/or with a controller.

  • lauraalauraa Member Posts: 2,270

    with the upcoming marvins nerf, i'm skeptical about nemesis. maybe im just a sweaty tryhard meta slave but I think he really needed the ability to reach tier 2 in his first chase. His bad matches are going to feel even worse. And what did he get? A buff to a zombie add on, something you can't control, and a buff to a survivor vaccine addon...which survivors control.

    Nemesis, as he is now, gives survivors an extra health state(survivors get 4!!!!! with that base kit dead hard) as well as a complimentary Sprint Burst. It's no surprise people want to use Marvin's Blood, so they can even out the trade a little bit...

  • TheArbiterTheArbiter Member Posts: 874

    Even without Marvins blood id still rate him B tier which is enough to win just about every match.

  • AngyKillerAngyKiller Member Posts: 1,838

    I'm still convinced the zombies were supposed to be a bigger threat, and more likely to bite Survivors, which would save Nemesis needing to give them a free health state via infection.

    But then they scaled by the zombies and never adjusted his power to compensate.

  • Steel_EyedSteel_Eyed Member Posts: 3,315

    Marvins Blood isn’t even like his best addon. Its a yellow addon. Id much prefer strength from the greens, purples, and reds.

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