You know timing, also you know where exactly it is. So it's just nowhere near as hard as gen skill check, where both things are random.
Maybe instead of 16s to 15s make it 16,5s to 15,5s. So on average you would have it same as before, but it can be slower/faster based on number of great skill checks.
Edit: btw timing is always same, so I bet I can make a macro for it...
If you have that big problems to hit skill checks then you probably don't know what it is, but there is secret strategy called protection hits, which can be used to save teammates...
Survivor sided development team. Stuff like this is why I laugh whenever anyone seriously tries to argue the devs are impartial and don't cater to one side. There was no actual reason to buff the mechanic. Also, stop getting upset that killers feel like the devs crap on them and are against them, when you release a patch with a wiggle mechanic buff at the same time you refuse to deal with COH, Dead hard, AND YOU NERF MULTIPLE KILLERS. Optics matter. Why did the skill checks need to never move? Why do the greats need to be on the middle rather than the edge, so you risk nothing by going for the greats? Why does it need to be easily macroable? Why does it need to reduce wiggle time at all? So many questions that people cannot answer at all and must deflect.
The people who go "omg it's just 1 second" should be ignored. They are just attempting to deflect and not actually argue in any honest capacity. The accessibility argument is also a complete fail because you don't need to buff the time it takes to get out of a hold if you change how wiggles work. That's absurd and also seems like intentional dishonesty to avoid addressing the issue which is: Why are they buffing survivors more?There is no actual defense for the buff and the lack of any legit argument for it that isn't dependent on fallacies or deflection, is a pretty good sign it shouldn't go through. But it will because it helps the side the devs care about. Yeah bro, let's buff survivors when queue times are double digit. Brilliant.
Yes, it gets smaller with each hit, but resets whenever you miss and it won't get that smaller. Thing is it's always same. Every time. time between each skill check is same.
It's nowhere near as hard as great and gen skill check.
You are not supposed to wiggle off the killer. Wiggle is there to prevent you going to the basement every down, but survivors always cry about it and expect to be able to escape anything a killer does so here we are. Buffed wiggle perks and a lower wiggle time.
It's just small enough a change that as soon as it's in, it'll never, ever change because everyone will claim it makes no difference ever. But just big enough to remove any consistency from wiggling time. Result: players get a buff to deal with when the Survivors are consistent and unpredictability when they're not.
Just big enough to have an effect and be irritating.
Why is this an issue? It's one second. I can't count the amount of times I have been hooked at 100% Wiggle because the killer begins the hook animation just as I reach that last 1%. In a way, you could say that makes this insignificant buff fair.
You dodged the question as to why it was needed. I feel if we nerfed it by the same amount for literally no reason, survivors wouldn't be going "omg who cares."
Also I have had so so so many situations where an extra second would free me.
I would have no problem if this was a buff that required as much skill.
However as you pointed out in your previous post there would have been mechanics to ensure that more skill was required. Especially the argument about the zones for "great" skill-checks hits home with me as this makes the wiggle timer a low risk, high reward mechanic. And these are problematic.
So yes the question is: Why are they buffing survivors?
I have no problem if there are reasons for this buff. However I do not see them. Different mechanic would be fine, different mechanic that rewards skill? Great, I take it.
But where is the punishment if you lack that skill?
Because it’s irritating as heck when you reach full wiggle progress, get 400 survival points, and still somehow manage to get vacuumed onto the hook. Hoping this solves that.
If I start losing more hooks because of this wiggle and Boil Over buff, I'll just go AFK. Sabo squads where I can't hook anyone and even play the game are one of the few times where I just peace out from the game and just let them do the gens and leave
I recently had a hand injury, which made me appreciate accessibility options in games. I had difficulty using my left hand and had to turn on accessibility options in nearly every game I played. These options are so crucial to people, so I fully support them. And if anyone cares, my hand is fully recovered now.
Hold on what accessibility issue is cured by a skill check, that a macro didn't already fix? Same for reducing wear and tear. They've already capped wiggle to 20ms so you can't just use a macro to instantly break free. Though it seems kind of pointless when the fix was already available.
It would have been a killer buff if they didn't adjust the timer, and killers do not need a buff to wiggle mechanics other than maybe less of a penalty for dropping, or more specifically, faster decay when they are slugged.
They need to stop buffing things that already perform well and nerfing things that aren't particularly strong. This is not anything worth complaining about.
First off, to be fair to the original poster, they're not asking about why the devs put in skill checks on Wiggles. I don't think they're upset about that. Nor are they upset about Great skill checks reducing the time, per se. What they are calling a "buff" is that, hypothetically, if you hit every great skill check you will Wiggle out 1 second faster. In other words, the current system has a 16 second timer to escape, and under the new system the time can do down to 15 seconds if you hit every Great skill check. So the question is "why didn't they make that so the average time to escape is still 16 seconds?"
I think the answer to that question is possibly that when you say the survivors are escaping more quickly you're assuming they're hitting Great skill checks and never missing checks entirely. However, at least for new to average players, the chances of missing some Good skill checks are non-negligable. For them this change is actually a nerf, it will be harder for them to escape in 16 seconds hitting skill checks than it is to escape under the current system by just hitting alternating keys rapidly or wiggling the joystick. It's only potentially a buff for people who can consistently reliably hit Great skill checks which is probably a minority of the player base.
In other words it might be a very slight buff to a small subset of the playerbase, but for most it's either no impact at all (assuming they hit Good checks reliably but not Great ones) or it's a nerf (if they have trouble hitting Good checks consistently.)
Im honestly surprised this same buff didn't make its way to second hook state. Hit a great and pause the timer for x seconds! It's a silly buff that shouldn't happen. Add the skill checks to improve the accessibility for sure, but remove the greats or at least be consistent(some skill checks have greats and some don't just cause!).
The issue is that you don't need to lower the time to free from a hold in order to make this change to the system. The reason it's being called a buff is because it's faster and can be macroed. You can easily change it so neither of those are true while not sacrificing any of the accesibility.
I don't like the accessibility argument because it's sort of a way to shield the change from criticism, but it's also invalid because the issues people are having a problem with have nothing to do with the accessibility feature of the change. By all means, keep the skill checks for wiggle, I have no issue with them. But there is no reason wiggle should be shortened at all, and there's no reason the skill check great zones should be kept away from the edges, unlike every other great skill check zone. Keep the system, remove the unneeded buffs that are added with the system.
Comments
People miss skill checks in 2022?
It's not that unlikely.
You know timing, also you know where exactly it is. So it's just nowhere near as hard as gen skill check, where both things are random.
Maybe instead of 16s to 15s make it 16,5s to 15,5s. So on average you would have it same as before, but it can be slower/faster based on number of great skill checks.
Edit: btw timing is always same, so I bet I can make a macro for it...
If you have that big problems to hit skill checks then you probably don't know what it is, but there is secret strategy called protection hits, which can be used to save teammates...
Sabo works too, but that's too advanced for you.
I don't think those are comparable, but sure, I wouldn't really mind any of those.
Most players won't make a macro.
BHVR apparently doesn't mind people cheating, so I doubt that would draw their attention either.
I haven't played with it, so I don't really know how it feels, but the likelihood of a Survivor hitting every Great is extremely low.
Or just slugging everyone. More fun for everyone.
Yeah, that also. I wonder what kind of threads we get more. Complaints about Boil Over or Slugging.
Hitting Great skill check 100% grant -1sec wiggle, it doesnt really matter.
But New Boil over really needed a nerf with the new buff. 25% penalty for a drop is super abusable.
Survivor sided development team. Stuff like this is why I laugh whenever anyone seriously tries to argue the devs are impartial and don't cater to one side. There was no actual reason to buff the mechanic. Also, stop getting upset that killers feel like the devs crap on them and are against them, when you release a patch with a wiggle mechanic buff at the same time you refuse to deal with COH, Dead hard, AND YOU NERF MULTIPLE KILLERS. Optics matter. Why did the skill checks need to never move? Why do the greats need to be on the middle rather than the edge, so you risk nothing by going for the greats? Why does it need to be easily macroable? Why does it need to reduce wiggle time at all? So many questions that people cannot answer at all and must deflect.
The people who go "omg it's just 1 second" should be ignored. They are just attempting to deflect and not actually argue in any honest capacity. The accessibility argument is also a complete fail because you don't need to buff the time it takes to get out of a hold if you change how wiggles work. That's absurd and also seems like intentional dishonesty to avoid addressing the issue which is: Why are they buffing survivors more?There is no actual defense for the buff and the lack of any legit argument for it that isn't dependent on fallacies or deflection, is a pretty good sign it shouldn't go through. But it will because it helps the side the devs care about. Yeah bro, let's buff survivors when queue times are double digit. Brilliant.
Have you even see it?
Yes, it gets smaller with each hit, but resets whenever you miss and it won't get that smaller. Thing is it's always same. Every time. time between each skill check is same.
It's nowhere near as hard as great and gen skill check.
You are not supposed to wiggle off the killer. Wiggle is there to prevent you going to the basement every down, but survivors always cry about it and expect to be able to escape anything a killer does so here we are. Buffed wiggle perks and a lower wiggle time.
I dunno, to make it annoying for the Killer?
It's just small enough a change that as soon as it's in, it'll never, ever change because everyone will claim it makes no difference ever. But just big enough to remove any consistency from wiggling time. Result: players get a buff to deal with when the Survivors are consistent and unpredictability when they're not.
Just big enough to have an effect and be irritating.
Just found it odd you are comparing a buff with simular nerfs instead of comparing it with simular buffs.
I honestly also don't really like the out of nowhere buff to wiggle speed.
Why is this an issue? It's one second. I can't count the amount of times I have been hooked at 100% Wiggle because the killer begins the hook animation just as I reach that last 1%. In a way, you could say that makes this insignificant buff fair.
You dodged the question as to why it was needed. I feel if we nerfed it by the same amount for literally no reason, survivors wouldn't be going "omg who cares."
Also I have had so so so many situations where an extra second would free me.
I would have no problem if this was a buff that required as much skill.
However as you pointed out in your previous post there would have been mechanics to ensure that more skill was required. Especially the argument about the zones for "great" skill-checks hits home with me as this makes the wiggle timer a low risk, high reward mechanic. And these are problematic.
So yes the question is: Why are they buffing survivors?
I have no problem if there are reasons for this buff. However I do not see them. Different mechanic would be fine, different mechanic that rewards skill? Great, I take it.
But where is the punishment if you lack that skill?
??? Because you’re supposed to be hooked in that situation, not wiggle free.
I don´t like that everything is becoming a dumb skill check. Wiggle was completely fine.
You don´t need to press very quickly and a slow Stick Rotation is absolutely sufficient.
I can´t believe anyone damages a keyboard or a controller with this. And i don´t think that this is really a lot more accessible at all.
Because it’s irritating as heck when you reach full wiggle progress, get 400 survival points, and still somehow manage to get vacuumed onto the hook. Hoping this solves that.
That's not a bug. Hook animation started, which is intended to override it. This buff is stupid and baseless.
If I start losing more hooks because of this wiggle and Boil Over buff, I'll just go AFK. Sabo squads where I can't hook anyone and even play the game are one of the few times where I just peace out from the game and just let them do the gens and leave
I recently had a hand injury, which made me appreciate accessibility options in games. I had difficulty using my left hand and had to turn on accessibility options in nearly every game I played. These options are so crucial to people, so I fully support them. And if anyone cares, my hand is fully recovered now.
The question isn't "why change how wiggle works", it's "why add a great skill check to reduce the time even marginally".
Or, "why does the accessibility change also affect game balance?"
Hold on what accessibility issue is cured by a skill check, that a macro didn't already fix? Same for reducing wear and tear. They've already capped wiggle to 20ms so you can't just use a macro to instantly break free. Though it seems kind of pointless when the fix was already available.
It would have been a killer buff if they didn't adjust the timer, and killers do not need a buff to wiggle mechanics other than maybe less of a penalty for dropping, or more specifically, faster decay when they are slugged.
They need to stop buffing things that already perform well and nerfing things that aren't particularly strong. This is not anything worth complaining about.
First off, to be fair to the original poster, they're not asking about why the devs put in skill checks on Wiggles. I don't think they're upset about that. Nor are they upset about Great skill checks reducing the time, per se. What they are calling a "buff" is that, hypothetically, if you hit every great skill check you will Wiggle out 1 second faster. In other words, the current system has a 16 second timer to escape, and under the new system the time can do down to 15 seconds if you hit every Great skill check. So the question is "why didn't they make that so the average time to escape is still 16 seconds?"
I think the answer to that question is possibly that when you say the survivors are escaping more quickly you're assuming they're hitting Great skill checks and never missing checks entirely. However, at least for new to average players, the chances of missing some Good skill checks are non-negligable. For them this change is actually a nerf, it will be harder for them to escape in 16 seconds hitting skill checks than it is to escape under the current system by just hitting alternating keys rapidly or wiggling the joystick. It's only potentially a buff for people who can consistently reliably hit Great skill checks which is probably a minority of the player base.
In other words it might be a very slight buff to a small subset of the playerbase, but for most it's either no impact at all (assuming they hit Good checks reliably but not Great ones) or it's a nerf (if they have trouble hitting Good checks consistently.)
Im honestly surprised this same buff didn't make its way to second hook state. Hit a great and pause the timer for x seconds! It's a silly buff that shouldn't happen. Add the skill checks to improve the accessibility for sure, but remove the greats or at least be consistent(some skill checks have greats and some don't just cause!).
If you want to make a real accessibility feature you make an option to wiggle with only holding a button down. That would really help.
Don't really mind it, since it will saves console users analog sticks. And plus us who can't hit the wiggle buttons consistently on keyboards.
The issue is that you don't need to lower the time to free from a hold in order to make this change to the system. The reason it's being called a buff is because it's faster and can be macroed. You can easily change it so neither of those are true while not sacrificing any of the accesibility.
I don't like the accessibility argument because it's sort of a way to shield the change from criticism, but it's also invalid because the issues people are having a problem with have nothing to do with the accessibility feature of the change. By all means, keep the skill checks for wiggle, I have no issue with them. But there is no reason wiggle should be shortened at all, and there's no reason the skill check great zones should be kept away from the edges, unlike every other great skill check zone. Keep the system, remove the unneeded buffs that are added with the system.