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The way BHVR nerfed CoH



  • Nathan13Nathan13 Member Posts: 6,122

    Still it ain’t like it’s 100% anymore.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 3,675

    It's not the kind of change I hoped, but it's still a good change. Sure, on a single heal you waste 5.3 seconds more (not 4 as OP said), but that time adds up if survivors heal a lot (and they do if CoH is present). Considering only the single instance is being a bit short sighted imo.

  • PredatedPredated Member Posts: 2,615

    4 seconds is a lot of time. That's 18 meters of movement for killers. So if you see someone heal with Nurses Calling, you can stop them before they finish. That's quite a big difference.

    I mean, I agree that having boon area be based on map size(or perk tiers in general, like they said, they arent gonna get rid of 3 tiers, but they CAN dedicate perk tiers to mapsize), but dont make 4 seconds in this game seem like nothing.

  • Jplanas98Jplanas98 Member Posts: 508

    First off, NOED doesn't need a nerf. Second, if this was the nerf, it would make practically no difference. Sure, you wouldn't be able to down someone instantly if you were in a chase during those first 4 seconds, but you'd still be able to insta down them afterwards. It wouldn't be much of a nerf, just a slightly annoying delay.

  • legrosporc69legrosporc69 Applicant Posts: 250

    Normally that kind of nerf are fine when you do patch every 2 week but not when we know they do patch every 6 week to 12 week. This feel like an eternity in the gaming world

  • OpenXOpenX Member Posts: 890

    They didn't do this to balance the perk. They did it to stop the killers from all leaving the game. CoH was a blatant repeat of MoM and is still a huge cashgrab. Release OP item, nerf it after everyone buys it. It's not OP by mistake.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759

    So any meaningful update like DELETING coh can be expected in 2024... cool

    Small updates are fine in games that don't have 3+ months between updates. COH is bad and just shouldn't exist. The devs don't understand how detrimental healing is to killers and how much damages this single perk is doing to their game. This one stupid blunder of a perk has encouraged and enforced all the unfun aspects of this game.

    Hit and run is dead. This forces killers to chase someone until they down them, (usually the weak link) and to target the weak link out asap so you can turn the game into a 3v1 for a chance.

    Camping is on the rise because gens are going too fast thanks to everyone being self sufficient leading to more optimal gen rushing.

    A good example is wraith. He was strong pre COH because he would just keep everyone injured and slowly chip away at survivor hook states while keeping them off generators by making them constantly heal each other. Now if you try to play like that, the survivor you hit is usually healed by the time you find someone else so why bother finding new survivors?

  • SmukSmuk Member Posts: 735
  • unluckycombounluckycombo Member Posts: 582

    Eh, I don't agree with that last statement. The perk does have simple and solid counterplay imho- the numbers were definitely too high. COH is the only super-hard meta Boon Perk.

    The issue more so comes from Killer pressure imho- if you're struggling with pressure or are an average Killer on a big map, you can't really afford to go across the map to snuff a boon if you're hard for the win/struggling to even get a 2k. Just in the same way that you don't want to take a chase against the best survivor on a team if you're struggling with pressure and the Survivor is going to an area with a lot of strong structures.

    COH just exasperated the same issue that has been around for a while, just like how MMR has exasperated the issue of 'Whoever sweats harder wins more'.

  • emetSdidnothingwrongemetSdidnothingwrong Member Posts: 190

    This changes nothing about the root problem with COH: the fact it completely removes the ability to spread pressure, as long as they get unlimited self healing that will always be the main issue with the perk, it makes it impossible for killers like Legion, Oni, etc. This perk is broken at a fundamental level not just the fact you can heal in 4s.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,766

    If the self heal is 75%, then I believe it will now take 8 seconds more than it used to, going up to 24 seconds.

    I really don't want them to make CoH bad, it's like the only new survivor perk to shake up the meta. It would be a shame if that one perk would also fall out of the meta again. So them carefully nerfing CoH is a good thing in my opinion.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,744

    Oh, no, of course not, don't be ridiculous.

    An update like DELETING CoH can be expected never, because that's obviously not going to happen. It can be reigned in but they're not going to delete a perk from the game just because some people don't like it.

    If you would sooner see it deleted than balanced, that's on you.

  • ZozzyZozzy Member Posts: 4,759
  • WeenieDogWeenieDog Member Posts: 1,998
    edited January 21

    I definitely think you could., it wouldn't be good however.

    I think the ability to allow anyone to heal would usually come with the cost of everyone doing it inefficiently. Like worse than self care. I'd say it's balanced, but it sure as heck wouldn't sell.

    But to me, this is just another mettle of man problem. A perk too good to exist without basically throwing to activate it.

  • Devil_hit11Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 1,918

    It changes nothing about what makes perk good which is that as long single boon totem is on the map, everyone has 5th perk and infinity med-kit. Other boon totems like shadowstep and expotencial have limited 24 meter area effectiveness. COH is global perk for survivors. Boons would be more balanced overall if they just worked only for user globally instead of affecting entire team. Don't think the number change will impact the perk that much.

  • jesterkindjesterkind Member Posts: 3,744

    Of course you can. A pretty great start would be to put some kind of range requirement on it, or maybe make survivors spend almost the full equivalent of a heal to even set it up...

    After that, you'd just have to make sure that it isn't too fast. Survivors healing without a medkit clearly wouldn't be broken if it took them five full minutes to complete that heal, so clearly it's the speed of the heal that matters. Make it slower, make it not stack as aggressively with things, and it'll be fine.

  • KurriKurri Member Posts: 1,599

    It's just further proof that when it comes to Killer changes, they are not scared to throw down the hammer, but with survivor changes they have to be as careful as a pin needle in fear too big of a change will make their survivor base leave.

    Though they don't seem to understand that it's the players willing to play Killer that is holding the whole franchise up.

  • 0mikeya00mikeya0 Member Posts: 219

    I'm a survivor main, I personally haven't had CoH be a problem at all when I play killer, but , just an idea, maybe after the killer cancels the boon, the survivor has to wait a minute and 30 seconds to maybe 2 minutes before they can make a new CoH totem, with the added 4 seconds 🤷🏼‍♂️

  • illusionillusion Member Posts: 871

    IDK, it seems much better to nerf in smaller amounts and see how things work rather than over-nerfing (which is never good). Usually when they over-nerf it takes forever for them to fix it, if ever.

  • zarrzarr Member Posts: 474

    I don't think COH is as problematic as it is often being made out to, but I do think a nerf is in order and that this is not the right nerf. 75% means that now you will self-heal in ~18.3 seconds, rather than 16. Not very meaningful. And it still allows you to have ridiculously fast healing speeds with med-kits (9.14s, faster if specific med-kits, add-ons and other perks come into play), which can even enable you to heal mid-chase.

    I think a more appropriate nerf would be to not have the boost apply to med-kit heals. So just on vanilla self-heals and altruistic heals. I also think 60% would be more reasonable, leading to 20-second self-heals and 10-second altruistic heals within COH's range.

    Alternatively, they could actually go for mechanical changes to Boons, such as decreasing the range, or making snuffing them more impactful (snuffing could destroy the totem, or it could put the respective player's Boon perk(s) on cooldown, or it could make it impossible for the respective player to bless that respective totem again for the remainder of the trial). Hell, they could even make it so that Boon perks lose power every time they are relit, such as COH's healing boost being 100% on the first blessing, but losing 20% on every consecutive blessing. Or if they want to make this change more streamlined for all Boon perks, simply make it so that they lose like 4m range on every consecutive blessing.

    I know they've said changes for Boons as a mechanic are not likely, but there's definitely reasonable things that could be done there.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 6,495

    I wrote the entire comment with it and the forums ate it ;-;

    Remind me to do it later

  • ElmosPayPigElmosPayPig Member Posts: 128

    A CoH boon is more usefull then the majority of soloQ teammates lmao.

    Have YOU ever used it?

  • fblurbgfblurbg Member Posts: 78

    Yes. I don't leave home without it because it's incredibly strong in solo queue. It allows me and my teammates to expediently take care of ourselves and each other without exchanging a single syllable of communication. It is an INSANELY strong solo queue perk.

  • AdjathaAdjatha Member Posts: 1,502

    CoH covers around 15% of the map on huge stages like Mother's Dwelling.

    It also covers around 75% of the map on small stages like Midwich or The Game.

    It also provides essentially unbreakable heal zones due to the sheer length of time killers need to snuff it on multi-floor stages like RCPD.

    The healing speed is definitely a huge problem. But the biggest problem is how its game impact varies so wildly from map to map in a way that no other perk does. There is no good reason why it works through multiple floors and no good reason why its radius doesn't change based on map size.

  • Astral88Astral88 Member Posts: 58
    edited January 21

    You literally keep complaining about a perk of your opponents and on the same side you are defending perks of your own side. I absolutely cannot understand, why you guys complain so much about "Boon: Circle of Healing", since its nothing else but a limited range Healing Perk which you can get rid of it within a couple of seconds. The perk is absolutely fine and you can make survivors waste a lot of time if you do your job correctly. Blaming survivors for being OP just means, you are more or less just not confident about your role as a killer, because your role as killer doesn't mean automatically you get a kill easy peasy, but that's what you gonna expect - get rewarded for doing nothing. You have to fight for it, same as survivors have to fight for their escape and if you cannot handle it, then it is as it is. There's always opponents which you just cannot mess with, cause you either lack on experience or tactical knowledge, bad rng on map, spawn or whatsoever. Also, facing the fact, that SWFs are always stronger then regular solo queueing players is a very important thing what you gotta face over all. So this would terminate the chance for solo queueing players who rely on healing cause some of the killers just play like idiots and kill the gaming experience. I've met tons of weird players who just don't do their job probably or set their priorities completely wrong.

    There's tons of perks for killers which rewards the killer for doing their role. You've been given [b]Scourged Hooks[/b] for a huge game slowdown. You've been given hex perks which gives you the ability of insta kills, moris, gen degression, aura reading, action slowdown and whatsoever. Like everything exists already; just because you are not using it, it doesn't means automatically that something has been changed to your favour so that you still don't have to use it. The game was for a very very very long time killer sided and seems to be finally fairly balanced. I know, that this community likes to cry a lot, is toxic and wants to get a nerf for something, what they cannot deal with. But it's a PvP game and if there's huge advantages given to you, in the same turn there should be given huge advantages to the survivor side as well. I've played for almost 1k hours as killer and in most instances I got ridt of the teams; unfortunately due to a lack of time cause of work, I was being unable to keep playing consistently and play compeitive. However, there's super strong players who know what to do and they can get rid easily of survivors, regardless how good the survivor teams are. You've to grow on every match and learn from doing. If Boon Totems are a problem to you, get rid asap or use hexes to counter blessing speed.

    You guys rly should think about what you request and invest more time into the game, cause requesting a nerf for something what's totally fine is nothing else as admitting, that you are a bad player - from strategics and from your personality probably.

    Thats absolutely no attack, further more it's just my honest opinon cause I'm tired of the crying from the community.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • cluxdxcluxdx Member Posts: 128

    McLean said he'd personally want to see the speed buff removed entirely and reduce the range to 16m so it's JUST a small range where people can self-heal, but of course he has no input anymore so it's not like his opinion will change much. I do think that would help solve the problem though. IMO letting the killer break the totem is the best, but whatever.

  • TheOptimiserTheOptimiser Member Posts: 138

    I mean it's okay that they nerfed it and acknowledged there is a problem with it, but the nerf is pretty weak... I know there's a few seconds more and in a game where every second matters may seem in favour of killers, but the most of the time the difference won't even be noticable... There could've been so many options on how to nerf it:

    1. Reduce the healing speed to like 50% would've been maybe suitable.

    2. Remove self-healing aspect and let the healing speed be normal when someone else heals you.

    3. Input a condition like: whoever lits the totem to make it Boon benefits from full healing speed and the other benefit from the value they put in the nerf(75% healing speed)

    4. Maybe create some sort of tokens: you start with 0 tokens on COH, the healing speed of COH is 40% at the start of the match, each time you boon a totem gain a token: each token increases the healing speed while in COH range by 15%, up to a max of 4 tokens(100%healing speed)

    There could have been sooo many methods but they chose the lazy one. And the thing with monitoring and if it's still strong we will extra nerf it, let's be honest, these are child stories, they will never touch the perk again not to displease the survivors...

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 2,149

    That would be a flat-out unusable perk. Imagine the worst aspects of self-care, but with a radius restriction -and- a 14+ second set-up time tacked on!

    CoH needs to offer -something-, folks. Maybe it can be argued it should go down to +50%, but most of these suggestions want to put this perk on the level of Red Herring, Off the Record, Mettle of Man and most other survivor perks.

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