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My Question Regarding Perk Tiers Got Answered In The Q&A!

AstrianAstrian Member Posts: 266

I didn't expect much to be honest. I just got a really fancy "no" to an honest suggestion that many, many, many people have suggested.

What astounds me is that they even mentioned that removing perk tiers WOULD reduce the grind by 66%, but that it wouldn't be worth investing time into instead of a real permanent solution.

I have to say BHVR, this solution you guys have in mind better be damn good. Better than reducing the grind that everybody hates by 66%. I'm sorry but I find that incredibly hard to believe. While yes, we would technically reach equilibrium again with removed perk tiers, but surely you guys understand that this would take literal YEARS correct?

You're telling me nothing can be done in years for a permanent solution? That the solution you guys have in mind can't incorporate such a "simple" change like removing perk tiers? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me.

In life, the simplest answer is often the best. Whatever complicated solution you guys have cooked up to reduce the grind cannot be better than just removing the grand offender that's causing the grind to be so painful.

I would love to hear what people think could possibly be better than reducing the grind by 66%. Because I honestly cannot think of anything without seriously overhauling the bloodweb which in no way can be a simpler solution than just removing Perk Tiers.


  • GoodBoyKaruGoodBoyKaru Member Posts: 18,656

    I would love to hear what people think could possibly be better than reducing the grind by 66%. Because I honestly cannot think of anything without seriously overhauling the bloodweb which in no way can be a simpler solution than just removing Perk Tiers.

    That's the thing; I'm pretty sure that's exactly what they're planning on doing. A complete and total rework of the entire system to ensure that it's functional for now and the grind isn't too much, which can then scale easily as the game scales in size too. What this could be I don't know, and I really don't want to be disappointed with it, so I'm not getting my hopes too high but I'm almost certain that an entire ground-up rework is exactly what they've planned.

  • Rizzo90Rizzo90 Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 12,130

    I think Peanits explained well the reasoning behind a more permanent rework here:

    I think focusing on a better system from the ground up is better than a temporary fix, especially if this band-aid would still require a good amount of work to get implemented.

    Hopefully they will be able to share more information about it soon enough, I'm very curious to see what they have planned, as the grind is a big issue at the moment.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,843

    I mean, bumping the default bloodpoint gain to what it is during this event would not be too much work. It makes me somewhat skeptical that the workload is the problem...

  • Rizzo90Rizzo90 Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 12,130

    That's a different "solution" from what has been mentioned here.

    And I am not a fan of boosting bloodpoints, that's not a solution to me, it's even more of a band-aid than removing perk tiers.

  • BlindMoleBlindMole Member Posts: 649

    I simply don't believe them when they say they are working on a way to reduce the grind. Hear me out:

    First i want to say i like bhvr devs, the way they are, how they communicate with us, and when they tell us they are working on specific things.... I believe them. Exept on this occasion.

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to take so long to fix something this dreadful and inherently easy to fix. That's just not possible. They are competent, they know how to make things work, but in this scenario they just don't want to.

    "oh we won't remove perk tiers because.... We keep adding content and it'll just get worse"

    ^ what kind of logic is that? There's so many things they could implement RIGHT NOW to ease it off and make it bareable and give them time to work on something more to their liking, while at the same time we get rid of the grind. I could go all day talking about this but....

    Now the question is... Why? Why do they not fix it?

    To me its simple. While pushing through to level up our characters we are less inclined to be mad about all the issues, being balance, technical or performance.

    Keep them busy farming points and they'll be to tired or won't even see the other problems.

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 807

    Soo....the short solution was to just increase the BP you get which is just a numerical tweak while looking for another long term solution...okay...

    @Astrian : You hope it would take "years" to reach back to the point where we are now. However maybe this is a tainted view because we play the game for a while. When I started I was overwhelmed with the number of perks that were appearing and now I have quit a few (leaving out some on purpose).

    If we talk about simple solutions: Why bother fixing the system. If you want to reduce the grind by 66% just increase the BP proportional. Even more simple because it only requires a numerical change without touching the Bloodweb at all.

  • ThiccBudhhaThiccBudhha Member Posts: 5,843

    I do not see how reducing the grind is bad when our goal is to reduce the grind. Like, why are you opposed to it, is there a reason? Sure it is a "bandaid," but as long as it addresses the concern, the problem sort of ceases to exist. I am all down for an overhaul, but why we couldn't at least get more frequent blood point events is beyond me.

    I personally do not mind the grind too much. My only personal issue is with the BP cap. It is obscenely low relative to our gains and how much your average bloodweb costs. But if the issue is that new players can't get their perks, I feel giving them more bloodpoints make sense. If anything, they are already doing that with more codes, the advent calendar... This event. It is just instead of a permanent fix, we get the BP in bursts.

  • Rizzo90Rizzo90 Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 12,130

    I'm not saying I'm opposed to increase the bloodpoints gain, I just think this is not a permanent solution to a system that overwhelms the players.

    If you think about it, the BP gain has been more than doubled since the launch of the game, before the bloodweb rework you used to get very little points from matches, this has been improved on a lot, giving more points from actions, adding perks that increase the points you receive, adding challenges with the Archives.

    Yet the grind is still huge, because every single chapter adds millions of BP needed to unlock everything on everyone, as Peanits explained in that post.

    Regarding the cap, I don't see the point of having a cap anymore at this stage of the game and they said they are looking into it, so we'll see if we get more information about it.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922
    edited January 21

    It would still take several years to catch back up just to the current system, why they can't work on and implement this change, which I really think they are hyping up to seem like such a herculean task that I honestly doubt, while working on their other idea they seem so much prouder of. They constantly say they have the resources for game balance, new content and bug fixing yet from everything I've seen we only ever get one or 2 of those at a time.

    Idk if the problem is the dev team the management or the work flow but something massive needs to change at BHVR cause at this rate they are adding as many problems as they solve.

  • Rizzo90Rizzo90 Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 12,130

    I am no programmer nor designer, so I have no idea how much time and work it would require to implement what you are asking for, so I can't really comment on this, I can just report what they said about it.

    I'd be fine with removing the perk tiers, don't get me wrong, however if this requires a similar amount of time and work compared to a complete and more permanent rework of the system, I don't see why we can't take the latter.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922

    You know band-aids are useful for keeping wounds from getting infected, they aren't a permanent solution but they can give you time to fix things. Something BHVR has run out of with a lot of players. All the friends I had that played this game quit well over a year ago citing the grind as the main reason, and it's only gotten worse since.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922

    Because it's been a problem for literal years, and I've seen this suggestion for years as well, how long is this "more permanent" solution going to take? Is it even going to come out in 2022? I know you don't know but it's pretty reasonable to be rather upset with the answer the devs gave.

  • Rizzo90Rizzo90 Member, Administrator, Mod Posts: 12,130

    You can be upset at them, I'm not saying you have to like their answer, I'm just saying I will personally wait for more information about it before having an opinion on the new system.

    I wish we could just snap our fingers and have all fixed, it's just not feasible and big changes require time, I prefer to be more open to a new system than seeing 10k more BP in a match and be at this point of frustration once again in a couple of years.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922

    If years didn't pass between these new systems maybe I'd give bhvr the benefit of the doubt, but mmr also took over a year and a half to implement and that's a disaster and is even less nuanced then the pip system I'm not asking for a goddamn magic trick here, I'm asking for bhvr to actually be competent for once and implement a good change within a reasonable time frame. Took them over 5 years just to give trapper a second base trap and how many years to hard lock iri hatchet to 1 hatchet?

  • WesCravenFanWesCravenFan Member Posts: 1,095

    I have a better question...

    If it is so hard to remove the perk tiers from the code, could you not at least band-aid it by lowering the price of perks to 1000/2000/3000? You would only need one dude to get in there and tweak a number and you would save people millions of bloodpoints.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoonMikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 2,119

    I hope devs are planning really something useful.

    I have +2500 hours on DbD and this is pretty much game time. Just to compare:

    I have +1500 hours on ESO and my characters are already full on this game.

    I have +1000 hours on R6 and i opened all characters, i have all content.

    But even 2500 hours was not enough to full all my DbD characters. I am glad BHVR is looking to grind because it is biggest issue for me atm.

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