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BHVR dont understand what SBMM is.

buzzamanbuzzaman Member Posts: 104

Patrick, the leading game designer, has openly said that if you get 9 hooks as killer, your MMR shouldnt be adjusted at all because you didnt kill anybody. Because in BHVR's mind Kills=Skill=MMR. This not only shows they have no idea what a skilled player in their own video game actually is, its also shows they have no concept of what MMR is.


If you play a match as killer and get 9 hooks you did great. Full stop. Yes you might not have killed anyone, but that exactly where an MMR is supposed to do the adjustment. MMR looks past the game result which can be inaccurate for actual skill, and determines how you got to this result to adjusts your rating accordingly. This is the prime example why this CAN be a great thing. The facecamping bubba who 2ks is apparently more skillful than the huntress with 9 hooks.


This would also be a great addition for game health. If people knew going for chases and hooks gets you further in MMR, less people would camp or tunnel , cause they dont need to. The fact that the devs dont understand this simple concept amazes me.

Comments

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 260

    But players should not have a goal to increase mmr. For players, the goals are to increase grades , kill as a killer or escape as a survivor of the match, make as many hooks as possible, never get caught by the killer, have fun. Mmr is a system exclusively for the selection of players.

    It's like a shooter. The goals of the player are to win, to destroy a lot of opponents, to have fun... And MMR is a matchmaking system.

    For the same reason MMR should not be shown.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922

    I saw a clip the other day where a person, who's literal first game they had ever played on that account, was put up against a killer with over 2k hours so yeah, killers are definitely getting placed against better survivors.

  • gilgamergilgamer Member Posts: 1,922

    Idk they even said that sbmm wasn't based on kills and escapes now they don't even act like it isnt.

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 807

    Quick math: 4 survivors, 3 hook stats, die on 3. state.

    How did you not kill anybody if you get 9 hooks?


    But aside from that. Would you be happy if we just call it "Kill Based Matchmaking"?


    You also assume that I want to increase my MMR. That is not the case at all. I also do not want the facecamping Bubba go against even worse survivors than me. If I can not deal with him, how are they supposed to handle this?

    With the current system facecamping Bubbas as well as sweaty SWF squads go up the ladder and chilled players go down. With various shades of grey of course. Bubba will meet his equal and the chilled players who play for hooks as well...

    So...where is the problem?

  • buzzamanbuzzaman Member Posts: 104

    You want skilled players to against equally skilled players. Someone who consistently 2-hooks everyone is a good player and should be placed against other good players. The end result alone is not a good reflection of that. Especially in asymmetrical game where both sides have different objectives. With the current system an AFK player gets the same MMR rating after the game as someone who 2-hooks everyone and is 4 hooks away from a perfect game. You have to at least include some form of how well a player has been doing in a match. Im not saying kills shouldnt matter, but hooks should matter equally.

  • buzzamanbuzzaman Member Posts: 104

    MMR should go up naturally as your skill improves, and should match you with the right players. And at the moment it doesnt do that at all. Playing well doesnt equal killing people in this game.

  • GwintyGwinty Member Posts: 807

    Why do you assume that I want this?

    You can be a skilled player going up with no perks against a medium good Killer (me) with perks and our match could be fair because of this. If you talk about a "fair" match you have the problem that you make an assumption what is "fair".

    You leave out equipment and self set boundaries.

    Getting 8 hooks without tunneling is such a boundary. Same if you refuse to use certain Killers or certain perks. Hell, even survivors set boundaries and do not use Stiptics or Syringes that often even thou this would massively improve their performance.


    I would agree if hook were counted if you kill the survivor in that trial. Like "bonus points" if you manage this. A perfect game 8 hooks built into a 12 hooks/4 kills could give more reward her.


    However coming back to my assumption: Isn't it a self set boundary to get 12 hooks?

    And to illustrated: Should I as a Killer who gets 0 kills but 4 hook while using no perks get more points than a full meta Killer with 8 hooks? After all my boundary made it more difficult to archive even half of what the other Killer did...

  • buzzamanbuzzaman Member Posts: 104

    This not about fairness, this is about skill. MMR cant change inbalanced things in the game, thats not what its for. MMr makes the assumption that everyone has the same roster of perks and items to use and make themselfs equally strong.

  • cburton311cburton311 Member Posts: 159
    edited January 21

    this isn't necessarily true in the long term. In any single match, you might have wierd behavior getting rewarded...but in general, making good decisions, exhibiting skillful play, will lead to better outcomes more often. And this will make MMR go up. Being idle, doing nothing, not being skillful will lead to worse outcomes in the long term, and lower mmr.

    Kills & escapes + escapes through hatch, is probably a pretty good indicator of skill. Kills are the stated goal of the killer and while more hooks and faster chases may not lead to kills, in the long term it will eventually lead to those types of outcomes. It is absolutely a better gage than the old emblem system.

    The first month of the new sbmm was actually awesome, the quality of the games was really good. Behavior broke something trying to reduce queues and speed up getting good matches. This is what needs to be fixed asap.

  • EntitySpawnEntitySpawn Member Posts: 3,196

    SBMM is a joke, everyone who understands what skill in DBD knows escapes and kills dont show skill.

    If I run a killer for the whole game, get camped and left to die somehow my team was more skillful than me. I did bad and they done better.

    It just promotes bad and unsporting behaviour.

  • LoneSlingerLoneSlinger Member Posts: 500

    Lmaoo if you actually believe this

    So the face camping bubba that gets a 3k is better then the pyramid head that hits all his shots through walls and gets 8 hooks

    And the Claudette that hides in a locker all game as I do all 5 gens then die by they escape is clearly better then me

    Theirs a reason kills and escapes is a trash match making system and they just keep doubling down on it

  • rharha Member Posts: 250

    Eh, I'll keep saying this, people take the "skill-based" label much too serious. The resulting games need to be fair and fun most of the time. Unfortunately, the devs spoke about the win conditions, so it has become almost impossible to tell who has actual problems with the SBMM and who thinks games must be bad because the conditions don't match his idea of skill.

    Facecamping as Bubba may be low skill, but if you pair him up with low skill survivors they can't handle that, if they get flooded with such killers it only ruins their day. Why not match him with higher skilled survivors who can handle this better?

    The pyramid head may actually just care about kills and not be happy to face stronger survivors without getting sufficient kills. I am not kill-focused and having everyone double-hooked would typically be my personal goal, but I'm not the majority.

    If Claudette hides in a locker all game, the chances that anyone will escape in a balanced match, particularly through the gates, go down drastically, so I'm not sure if that happens often enough that it would matter.

    If you do all five gens with one player inactive, that wasn't really skillful either btw, since you basically just held a button. The guy who ran the killer so you could hold that button for so long saved you the day.

  • EmealEmeal Member Posts: 1,417

    Ok, No, they literally made this system, your title is wrong.

    Also you forget that MMR is based on average games, not one and you assume facecamping Bubbas are motivated by MMR.

    The only regret I have with the SBMM System is that it isnt called MMR.

    Cause I think people have a kneejerk reaction to hearing the word "Skill", which is too easy to misunderstand for my liking.

  • Khelendrose2020Khelendrose2020 Member Posts: 113

    You know the developers are lost when you hear the horrible sports analogy they used for SBMMR. Wins for a a hockey team equates to skill. Wait, we are talking a team sport vs an individual measure. So they are saying the guy who road the bench was as skilled as Wayne Gretzky?! Not a good comparison.

    See, you jave to measure several areas to judge a player's skill, in sports or a game. If you want this to be skill based, you have to measure more than one thing. If you want this to be win based, that is different.

    Why not use a boxing analogy? No, won't work due to the 4 v 1 setting. Boxers don't have to depend on 3 other boxers.

    Tgis is a short-sighted system, period.

  • Skittering_RoachSkittering_Roach Member Posts: 5

    I'm only really seeing this argument told from the side of killer mains so here's my take on SBMM from the side of a survivor main: It doesn't work.

    Like, it straight up does not do its primary function as a fair match-making tool.

    Argue that kills are a better indicator of skill vs hook states in theory all you want, the proof of how badly this functions as a matchmaking tool shows in practice.

    I have maybe a little over 600 hours of play over the span of two consoles and the range of skill I find myself matched up against varies wildly. No matter how many times I get out of matches through the exit gate, I still find myself occasionally matched against new killers. And by new killers I mean, just booted up the game today and have maybe 2 perks equipped on Trapper NEW. 

    This happens both when I'm solo-queuing and when I'm in a SWF with teammates that have a couple thousand hours under their belt and were Iri 1 when that still arguably meant something. Just two or three losses and we're stuck going against killers that can't even get a hook on us, much less a kill. Like, we aren't playing to win, we mess around and we're very casual and memey, but that still shouldn't happen.

    No matter how "bad" we might be according to this system, no one with over a 1000 hours under their belt should be able to tank their MMR badly enough to start mowing down killers that just picked up the game. It's not fun for us and it's definitely not fun for the baby Trapper who DC'd after the doors opened with no hooks.

    That especially shouldn't be a task easily achieved by losing two or three games.

    And you can say "lol, if you don't want to match against baby's GET GOOD", but that's not the issue. The issue is that it's incredibly unfair to new players that they can so easily get thrown into a match with a swf they have no chance of beating. And this isn't a once in a while occurrence that only crops up when a killer looks at our lobby and nopes out.

    I've seen this complaint across the board with both survivor and killer mains, with how easy it is to end up playing against new players. The old system was deeply flawed, too, but it at least made it harder for old players to match with newbies, and it definitely felt like more often than not I was being matched with people my own skill level. With this new system, who you get matched with feels completely arbitrary, and when I get matched with killers my own skill level it feels like a miracle occurred.

    Basing MMR off kills is like putting your match-making on a pendulum. You lose a few games, you play with babies. You get high enough in MMR to get someone your own skill level you either lose and you're back down to baby town, or you win and get matched with people above your skill level. And it's the same for killers. Get lots of hooks, but not enough kills? Go down in the ranks till your playing with babies. Get enough kills to go up in the ranks till you're briefly playing with people of your own skill level, till you get enough kills to end up in the sweat leagues, and get sent right back down the MMR ranks. Rinse, wash, repeat. There's no real balance here, and it's just been an overall exhausting experience.

    Again, you can argue over whether kills are more skillful than hooks all you want, but in the end, the match-making system is supposed to CONSISTENTLY match you with people that are your equal, and more often than not, it's NOT doing that job.

  • I_am_NeganI_am_Negan Member Posts: 3,141

    If you got 9 hooks you killed 1 or 3 players.

    And if you drop the S in skill it gives you kill.

    Kill is skill😂

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