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New CoH vs Old CoH numbers

GrimReaperJr1232GrimReaperJr1232 Member Posts: 889
edited January 22 in General Discussions

Hello, DBD Community! The Reaper is here to show you the numbers so you don't have to.

Self-Heals

This is more complex than some people might think due to how CoH is coded. You see, self-heals share identical coding with Self-Care, which explains why it even had the text "self-care" when it was originally released. So, you do get the 50% penalty, but it also benefits from CoH heal speed bonus to counter it.

Old: 16

Old with Mangled: 20

New: 18.29

New with Mangled: 22.5

Altruistic/Medkit heals

Much easier to calculate since there's no 50% penalty to keep track of.

Old: 8

Old with Mangled: 10

New: 9.14

New with Mangled: 11.25

Bonus

CoH + Emergency Medkit = 7.1 seconds vs the old 6.4 seconds.

CoH + Emergency + Botany = 6.2 vs 5.65

So really, not much has changed. Except stacking Medkit charges are going to be better than using an Emergency medkit for ultra-fast heals, but I'd argue that was already the case.

Interestingly, CoH is as efficient as Self-Care (discounting totem time) with blessing + healing adding up to 32 seconds. Insert obligatory "Self-Care is not a bad perk" here.

Edit: minor corrections due to Mangled weirdness

Edit 2: I originally rounded the numbers to the nearest one, but to be a little more accurate, I instead rounded to the nearest hundredth. You're welcome.

Post edited by GrimReaperJr1232 on
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Comments

  • TaingaranTaingaran Member Posts: 260

    I was really surprised they weren't going to add cooldowns or tokens to boon totems.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,547

    If a survivor goes to look for another survivor, then that's a survivor throwing the game. You either get healed at a hook or you get healed at a gen. With a boon totem, you have to go to the location of the boon totem which takes time. You can't ignore that time.

    CoH is a good perk but it has to be a good perk, because it's also a secondary objective. If you nerf it to much, survivors will ignore CoH and suddenly secondary objectives are gone. Look at chests, they're so bad now that no one does them.

    Killers complain about gen times, but when the developers try to fix them by introducing secondary objectives, killers flip out. I guess you expect survivors to setup boon totems that do nothing.

  • Ravenlord4711Ravenlord4711 Member Posts: 98

    I 100% agree and i say CoH is busted. even post nerf. I bet you tried to quote the guy i qutoed and the quote thing messed up @MandyTalk is therre something that can be done about that happening?

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,547

    Honestly, I think it's a good idea because it adds an interaction between killer and survivor that wasn't there before. And it adds a secondary objective for survivors. However, you have to realize, anything that adds a secondary objective for survivors has to somehow affect the Killer negatively or it won't be used. In this case, if the survivor plays the boon correctly, the survivors come out ahead. If the killer snuffs the totem efficiently, then the killer comes out ahead.

    As an example, look at chests, another secondary objective, which is no longer used. Survivors don't get anything useful from chests that positively affect survivor game play. The time wasted opening a chest negates toolboxes, flashlights or practically worthless, keys are totally worthless and the time wasted opening a chest also negates medkits except in certain situations where they can't find a teammate to heal them. A 1 in 4 chance of getting something useful from a chest makes chests an absolutely worthless secondary objective.

  • FirelliusFirellius Member Posts: 1,876

    To be fair, I'm pretty sure no one that requested secondary objectives for survivors ever claimed to want it as anything other than a straight nerf to survivors.

  • IronKnight55IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,383

    These people won't be happy until boon perks are useless. Sorry, but it's true. It isn't as OP as people make it out to be.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,217
    edited January 21

    I don't know, injured and isolated survivors used to open chests for medkits pretty regularly... before CoH obsoleted the need for medkits. The odds of finding a medkit are greater than 1/4, because brown items are the most common result and that'll 1/2 of the time be a medkit.

    Being able to self-heal without an available teammate is massive. It doesn't just take out the raw time that's saved compared to healing normally, it takes having to locate a teammate out of the equation, and it allows for recovery in situations where nobody is available to heal you. Medkits are the most powerful item in the game for a reason. I do agree that keys now err on the side of too useless, but people hunting for keys was always a last-ditch effort anyway.

    As for 'if the killer snuffs the boon efficiently' - your earlier clause of 'if the survivor plays the boon correctly' invalidates it. Yes, I can efficiently snuff a boon that a Mikaela herp derps next to an unfinished gen (though I may have to trade off snuffing for chasing the survivors off that gen, and the time spent snuffing allows them to safely reach another loop.) There is no efficiently snuffing a boon that's been placed in the corner of the map, by a pallet and gen deadzone, or on a catwalk or detour that isn't normally traversed. Virtually the only times you can snuff a boon and come out ahead timewise is if it's on your gen patrol route or close to a hook and you run by it while you are not currently chasing anyone. If it takes you more than (14/number of survivors alive in the match) seconds to remove a boon, you've lost time.

  • foxsansboxfoxsansbox Member Posts: 979

    Survivors don't need to actively look for totems. They commonly spawn on-top of them at the start and walk into them through sheer fact that they're placed on the same tile sets that the gens sit on. There's only a few exceptions like the 2 blackwater swamp wall spawn locations.

    Also, your assumption isn't really supported. 3 heals is not a lot. If a killer hooks 3 people, that is 3 people getting a COH benefit once they're unhooked (More valuable to run to boon then to take rescuers time). The fact is survivors putting down a COH get paid dividends unless they are potatoes who bless right in front of the killer or can't use their critical thinking skills when they choose a totem to bless. COH shouldn't be balanced around those latter exceptions, it should be balanced around the survivors who are making bank on it and completely eliminating the divide and conquer playstyle that this game so desperately needs to get people to shut up about tunneling.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,890

    Relighting the Boons indefinitely isn't an issue for Boons in general. Shadowstep and Exponential for instance aren't powerful enough that having it be replacable after being disabled hasn't been a problem. Only Circle of Healing has been controversial, so the answer has been to tone that one down. This nerf is a step in that direction. I don't know if 75% will be enough or not, but either way tuning that healing speed parameter is the simplest direct way to balance this perk. They can set that number to anywhere from 0 to as high as they want for instance, and at 0% it does literally nothing so obviously there must be some range where the percentage is low enough that the perk isn't overpowered but still high enough that it's something survivor would want to use.

  • MunqaxusMunqaxus Member Posts: 2,547

    Yeah, it would take the killer 30 seconds to break the totem yet cost the survivors no time going to that totem. Survivors just teleport to boon totems.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,217

    I don't agree that infinite relighting isn't a problem outside of CoH. It's also an issue with Shadowstep. Shadowstep is held back because on most maps, the effect ranges from meh to awful. Might catch me off guard on Autohaven or I might still see where you ran. On Ormond or Eyrie, good luck on it doing anything at all. So the perk is typically slept on when map offerings aren't involved.

    On indoor maps, though?

    In Midwich or RCPD, you can cover most of the map with two boons. That's two-floor coverage on a dark map with tons of doorways and turns and smudgy floor textures to make blood that much harder to see. No scratch marks. Toss in Iron Will and I genuinely cannot chase anyone, because they will effectively disappear as soon as I break a pallet or hit them. I end up with no choice but to go back and snuff the totem, and then they put it back in the same spot for maximum coverage and I'm back to square one. Rinse and repeat. Lery's or the Game, I can see blood, but an uninjured survivor can disappear the instant they leave my sight. Same with Badham main building or Coldwind corn.

    With CoH, the location isn't as important - you just need to put it somewhere where the killer won't walk by it while patrolling. Shadowstep is more of a case where it relies on being lit somewhere with high walls, but when you have the right spot, the value you can get out of it is extreme and the killer again has to find out who's doing it and tunnel them out if they want to stop it.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 5,890

    What you’re describing would be a possible issue with the range of Shadowstep, not relighting it.

  • AkumakajiAkumakaji Member Posts: 1,125

    If I recall correctly it got something to do with the "give survivors another objective besides doing gens" thing. They fear that things are good now, and survivors spend a good amount of time blessing and doing totems that could be spend on just popping some gens faster and if Boons could be destroyed that the perk would see less and less play. Some players also stated exactly that, something along the lines of "lol no! If boons could be destroyed this could leave me with only three perks midgame. I wouldnt play boons then!", which is quite the double standard, as even rather tame Hex perks have had this "high risk, high reward" mentality attached to themselves for years and everyone knows about it.

    The other (in my view rather weak) argument is something like this: "boons are balanced arount this concept. Please stop to compare boons to hexes. Both might coincidently use totems as their vehicle, but besides the mechanics are totally different and they don't have ANYTHING similar about each other, so stop making this comparison and say that they should be destroyable". I mean, in my pov you need to be rather blind, most likely intentionally in order to honestly believe that. Boons are very clearly designed as "Hexes for survivors", yet they play at a much more forgiving and watered down rule set.

    Lastly people like to say "Yeah, fine! But then let the killers having to light their Hexes up, wasting 12s for each!!!11". This mostly comes from survivor players who have no idea how tight time management for killers is. In a 1v4 the 1 person cant just AFK out for so long, this would be tandamount to handling the game to the survivors.

    Right now Boons are very strong and put a lot of stress and pressure on the shoulders of the already stressed and pressured killer role in a way that just feels a bit too frustrating. And the bandaid BHVR slapped on it didn't even stop the bleeding, yet alone help the thing heal.

  • AneurysmAneurysm Member Posts: 4,492

    my biggest problem with them is not really encouraging any strategic placement on the survivor's side (not much in the killer side either in terms of counterplay) If dull totems could be destroyed, if survivors couldn't transfer it without being stomped, if booning took longer each time etc etc it'd be different. Especially with multiple survivors running them. Had an extreme example earlier where I was running COH and SS and the other three survivors all had COH. There were usually 3 totems up at once, sometimes 4, I don't think it went below 2 at any point after the first minute of the game. And none of the totem spots were good, the spirit knew where they all were because all of them got snuffed at least once, it just didn't make much of an impact.



  • BrimpBrimp Member Posts: 1,150

    Well that doesn't really matter much when time is much less valuable on the survivors side since you know... there's 4 survivors vs 1 killer.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,997

    So wait, the self heal speed works like this, right: It's 50% healing speed, but then there's a 100% speed boost added to that. So instead of 32 seconds, it takes 16 seconds.

    Decreasing it down to 75% healing speed means it should now give you 50% bonus healing speed on top of the 50% healing speed normally. However, 32/1,5 = 21,33 seconds, not 18.

    So it is more of a nerf than just 2 extra seconds.

  • just_one_playerjust_one_player Member Posts: 74

    It is incorrect, it will only 2.29 seconds. CoH works like this:

    50% + 100% of 50% = 0.5 + 0.5 x 1 = 1 c/s

    So we have 16 charges for a full heal at 1 c/s, totaling 16 s.

    After the nerf, it will work like this:

    50% + 75% of 50% = 0.5 + 0.5 x 0.75 = 0.875 c/s

    So, with 16 charges at 0.875 c/s, the time is 18.29 s.

    CoH allows self-healing to 50% and increases all healing speeds by 100% (with the nerf it will be 75%). The nerf will not change the self-healing speed (50%), just the extra speed (100% to 75%).

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