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I am profoundly disappointed.

LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,699

Once more, absolutely none of the PTB feedback was acted on.

Boil Over is now the next hot troll perk - still completely useless for anyone looking to play Dead By Daylight normally, but can be abused in several maps, especially with oak offerings, to basically replicate the old Breakdown bug and create self-pickup slugfests in unhookable areas. Such zones include RCPD library, Eyrie of Crows, Dead Dawg Saloon (potentially), Thompson House, and god knows what mischief will unfold on Haddonfield because that was disabled in the PTB. Again, I want to stress that this perk isn't good, and can't even be used on most maps - it's 100% going to be troll bait.

Dead Man's Switch can be effortlessly camped by Artist, which lets her facecamp someone to death and prevent gens from getting any progress, or force a hook trade in which she blocks the gens again. Doctor and Freddy also have the potentials to be game-stalling monsters with this, but Artist is the main problem case.

Gearhead's aura is harder to see than the old version of the perk even if the trigger conditions are better.

Buckle Up and Furtive Chase are still 100% useless. Wake Up and Distortion are still 90% useless.

And unsurprisingly, none of the addon nerfs were reverted. Mikhail's Eye needed to be 35% instead of 50% zombie movement speed because Twins are monsters at high MMR.

Why do we even have a PTB if absolutely none of the feedback is taken into account? You might as well just release everything to live immediately and then patch it in three months if something's busted, because that's what happens anyway.



  • Midori_21Midori_21 Member Posts: 701

    It makes you open the exit gate like 10% faster than it did before. Basically it makes you open the gate faster gooder.

  • PizzasaucePizzasauce Member Posts: 940

    I honestly only used wake up to find the exit gates. I never much paid attention to the speed thing.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,266

    I especially don't understand the Dead Man's Switch change if we recall one of the main reasons for the Doctor rework: hostage situations. Players find it extremely unfun when they can't progress the game in a reasonable manner. The devs know this. They have changed killers in the past knowing that a certain amount of game delay is acceptable, but complete and repetitive stall is generally unacceptable to players. That's literally what Dead Man's Switch now allows on some killers. I don't understand their thinking at all here.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 5,788

    Oh no. Not a perk that has synergy with literally one killer.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,699

    It doesn't matter if it's only busted on one killer - people are going to use it on that killer because of that and it's going to be awful, the same way they're going to use Boil Over with RPD first and foremost. There's 'synergy' and then there's 'way more powerful than it was ever intended to be.'

    The issue isn't that it's unbeatable, even if it's powerful, the issue is that it extends games beyond anything that's reasonable and confers a big advantage on top of that.

    The DMS buff looked great before this, but I think they need to look at the perk's activation conditions and add a few conditionals that either prevent it from triggering in certain cases, or limit the number of gens it can affect in those cases (so if you're playing Trapper, it can block every gen, but if you're playing Artist, x gens are already blocked by the perk, and a survivor has crows when they let go of another gen, the effect doesn't trigger. Rough hash, but something like this. The other option is to nerf it back into obscurity.)

  • PerfectlyPinkPerfectlyPink Member Posts: 435

    Dms is going to be like lucky break. People vastly overestimate it's strength because it's annoying to go against.

  • IamFranIamFran Member Posts: 1,096

    I'm quite surprised Deadman's Switch didn't receive a nerf before release. I suppose the reason is because the only killer who can really exploit that perk is Artist and having another procamper along with Bubba is not a problem for them.

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,699

    I don't care about DMS when it's not on Artist. It's good, but there's counterplay against the killers it's especially good on. Doc, you let go of the gen before the hook and anticipate the shock and then he can't use it again for a minute; Freddy, you tough it out with Class Photo and assume he's faking until/unless he shows up. Same with a fast killer like Blight or Billy that races across the map - don't get spooked, tough it out unless they're aiming for you. And for nearly everyone else, it's just going to be another above-average gen delay perk.

    Artist's counterplay is "hardcore hide all game, skittering back into the bushes at even the hint of a terror radius, but also team-pile on gens like a mofo and BT-bodyblock unhooks with DS" or just "lol don't get caught."

    Lucky Break is a tricky perk, but it's not a 30-minute match perk.

  • BrokenSouIBrokenSouI Member Posts: 5,788
    edited January 25

    It's just tiring. Because it's always something because of "how well it synergizes !"

    People have literally cried for tinkerer nerf. Because of "omg billy, Freddy, nurse !!!"

    People have literally cried about hoarder(which LOL btw) because of pinhead.

    Now it's "omg DMS !!! Artist !!!"

    People have cried for this and that..And then when it gets nerfed(rather killer or perks) People come crying because they only face nurse, blight, spirit. They come crying because they only face corrupt, pop, ruin, scourge hook, etc

    It's like you just posted in another thread about boil over. It'll be used for probably a week and be forgotten.

  • NorhcNorhc Member Posts: 289

    So only one add-on change did not make it and it was a buff one. BHVR, ladies and gentlemen.

  • IrisoraIrisora Member Posts: 1,326

    Zombies get stuck on everything, in hooks, rocks.. i don't understand the logic behind the nerf. Could be that they think the AI is wonderful because they don't play their own game? lol

  • MrPeanutbutterMrPeanutbutter Member Posts: 826

    If this is true and there are still maps with spots that can be abused and make it impossible to hook people, then I’m done believing that BHVR listens to the community. This is something that 1) is a real problem; 2) has been made widely known on the forums; and 3) should be very easy to fix. If this issue still isn’t fixed, then there’s just no point in ever providing feedback again because it’s clear that it will be ignored. I haven’t played after update yet to confirm if it’s still a problem, but if it hasn’t been fixed yet then it’s hopeless

  • CyberDragoon656CyberDragoon656 Member Posts: 960

    Same can be said for the survivor meta perks especially DH and COH

  • LaluziLaluzi Member Posts: 3,699
    edited January 25

    So I've thought about this one for a while, and ultimately, I can't fault that. There's nothing I can objectively quantify about how I think something like Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer Blight or Infectious/Starstruck Nurse is fair, but this isn't. All of those killer/perk synergies have counterplay, but so does Basement Bubba and Dead Man's Switch Artist. It all comes down to my personal opinion on what's reasonable to expect players to do and what isn't, and that's a worthless foundation for an argument.

    I think my reasons for railing against DMS Artist are very similar to my reasons for hating Boil Over - they're too easy to pull off for their reward, they encourage a cheese strat over interactive or dynamic gameplay, and they stretch games out well past the point of anyone having fun with them. Both of them hinge on just flat out not letting the other team do their objective for obnoxiously long periods of time.

    Though that brings up the question of Franklins/Hoarder Pinhead, because he was/is also a stall killer who'd drag matches out to death. I think the issue here is that Pinhead forever-hunt strategies live or die based on whether he's facing comms and they are not universally effective. While they certainly help him, I don't think the issue was actually Franklins or Hoarder - it was that it's stupidly hard to end a chain hunt once it gets going because the chains continue to harass the box holder, and that build made it so that you had to solve the box as soon as you picked it up or you'd get interrupted. All Franklins/Hoarder truly did was prevent a survivor from holding the box hostage and force them to time picking it up well. The fiddliness in actually solving the box, along with the box time addons, was what caused the strategy to work as well as it did. All of that said - I'm quite likely very wrong about this. I was on hiatus when Pinhead was first released and you actually faced him more than once in a blue moon, so I don't think I'm the best person to speak on this topic or how fair/busted that strat was/what was actually the lynchpin versus what was incidental.

    As for DMS not being used in a week - yes and no? The difference between Boil Over and DMS is that Boil Over isn't a good perk. If you're not controlling the map and you're not running to areas the killer has to drop and doesn't have a hook right there anyway, it's a waste of a perk slot that will help you once every couple dozen matches. DMS is actually a good perk (albeit probably not meta), and alongside being a good perk, it opened up another powerful cheese strategy ala Basement Bubba. Less instadeath if you get caught, more that the Artist can just keep stalling the game over and over and over again and win through attrition unless survivors counter it with a specific strategy that takes ages or are good enough runners that her facecamp palooza kicks in too late (whereupon the team can sacrifice the facecamped player or grab then at the very last second of the second stage to avoid a second DMS.) Which is tricky, because Artist is an anti-loop killer.

    And historically, low-effort strategies that have high returns attract players. Trolling rarely wins you games, but cheesing does. So if DMS facecamp Artist works, we'll be seeing her around.

    I'm definitely skeptical that DMS will have a lasting place in the meta compared to, say, Pain Resonance, and it'll probably go the way of Lucky Break when it comes to killers who aren't Freddy/Doc/Artist. Artist is where I'm worried. I could be wrong. On its head, it does seem like it requires a little more skill than Basement Bubba, and it will also take longer, so there's a chance it just won't corner his market and widely appeal to the players that are interested in playing joyless slogs for 4ks. One hopes.

    Overall, I'm just really unhappy that they've failed to take any action on any feedback beyond "we're not buffing Solvent Jug then" and that their stance on massive design oversights seems to be "lol, let's just go ahead with it and see what happens."

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 4,388

    Why do people always pretend BHVR never makes any changes to the patch between the ptb and when it releases to the live game when it doesn't happen once?

    I mean fair enough, it does sometimes feel like the devs don't listen enough, and some changes really should happen but don't. But the devs also don't just have to listen to every feedback that people have immediately.

    It is weird that Dead Man's Switch made it into the game though. That one I can see becoming very problematic.

  • BenihimeWrathBenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968

    I don't know why anybody thinks the PTB is for balancing or testing anything. (Despite test being in the name) All the PTB is for is hype. If you've paid attention, the dev build of the game is actually -apparently- far ahead of live or even the PTB.

    They've already decided on the path, they are just waiting to see if the community kicks up any rocks on the way.

  • chargernick85chargernick85 Member Posts: 3,171
    edited January 25

    I am actually getting ready to hop in a match with twins just noticed they had tier 3 dms. I think i can get great value running around with vik.....i hope. Get back to ya on that. Dont have it on Artist/doc so lucky for survivors there. Got tier 1 on fred....I never have anything fun. Still dont have hoarder or franklin on Pinhead but have gone against it as a solo Survivor and thats a ######### snorefest.

  • GeneralVGeneralV Member Posts: 7,099


  • StarLostStarLost Member Posts: 6,012

    Not to mention a small Clown buff that actually just...didn't get implemented at all.

    At least Pinhead's voicelines are dope.

  • CrowmanCrowman Member Posts: 4,514

    PTB is largely just a gloried preview of the next patch. Been that way for over a year now.

    It's sadly very rare that devs make changes to ptb content, because they need "stats" first and it really doesn't take "stats" to know that furtive chase is still useless.

  • dugmandugman Member Posts: 6,566
    • Boil Over is probably mostly ok, if it ends up being broken in very specific locations in maps it's probably just a flag that that specific map needs an adjustment anyway regardless of Boil Over.
    • Dead Man's Switch could possibly be an issue on Artist due to her unlimited range and ability to fire crows through obstacles. If it does present a problem, though, the solution is probably to tweak Artist's crows so they don't do damage beyond 35 meters, for example. She'd still be a solid killer even if she can't literally get an occasional snipe halfway across the map or more
    • Gearhead showing survivor auras versus generator auras makes it inherently better in my opinion. You say the survivor aura is harder to see but when I use survivor aura perks I don't normally have trouble seeing them (except when there's one of those annoying halos created by a sacrifice or generator completion which block everything else).
    • Furtive Chase is definitely still useless. Having less terror radius in a chase makes pretty much zero difference because the survivor you're chasing knows you're there. So who cares if the effect lasts longer in the match? A worthless effect that lasts a long time is still a worthless effect. They really need to consider revamping both this and Beast of Prey to have effects that don't give "stealth" during a chase. Stealth is primarily useful when you're NOT in a chase.
    • To be fair to the devs they have the data on these add-ons that the people posting in these forums don't. They're saying they looked at lots of matches with and without specific add-ons and the ones they nerfed are the ones where the add-ons appeared to be having too great an impact on the kill/escape rates. It's not like they just randomly said "oh, this is popular, let's nerf it".
  • KurriKurri Member Posts: 1,601

    but, how will streamers and content creators advertise the coming content if they just rushed it live? At least with calling it the PTB, the streamers and content creators look like they are playtesting, which brings them more views. They make it look fun and great generating DBD more customers/players. And all they had to do was release the content early, but is it early? When we all know when the PTB tends to go live anyways.

    If I call a duck a chicken, it's surprising how many people find it a chicken.

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